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Hey! I beat Ryan in my Slowstice...For one day anyhow...

There are some that think that it was "factory forged documentation" that got the MS-R into stock.(I didn't come up with that term).

I do think that some new loopholes are opened with this particular case. Did you guys check on how many 07 SV's were still at the port? Of course not cause there were NONE. Some of Mazda's own "other" documentation that I have casts SERIOUS doubts on the package and whether or not it really exists as a true production package.

Either we will agree that doubt exists or the bar will be lowered way down for what is needed to get other trunk kits "legalized" in stock. I just need to get a package added to dealer order sheets right when a production year ends and price it way out of line and it is an option package. Am I understanding this correctly? THAT IS ALL I NEED cause that is what the standard was with this particular option package. Maybe I can say "contact TRD" or "Lotus USA" or "GMPP" for more info on ordering the car and then steer them to buying just the parts....

I don't think that saying "it's ok in this particular case" is what is best for the sport as a whole even if the car is temporarily ok in CS.

Stay tuned for more action!

FM

PS: Please Pmail me for more info if you also think the 07 only MS-R trunk kit parts shouldn't be allowed in stock.

PPS: should I do the polite thing and write the SEB and CC Mazdacomp or just wait for a big event and protest? Mazda might not have time to "fix" the issues that I found after Packwood for Nats. I am torn on this forsure....Spirit of the sport and all that.

Fastmike:

Hey! I beat Ryan in my Slowstice...For one day anyhow...

Kinda like being half pregnant, isn't it? 

 

There are some that think that it was "factory forged documentation" that got the MS-R into stock.(I didn't come up with that term).

If you say so.  Perhaps all the docs that GM sent us were fake, too?  Perhaps they were all shipped from the grassy knoll by "greys".    I mean, if we are going to start doubting documentation that is officially submitted by a manufacturer, then we have bigger problems than *any* of us can solve. 

 

 Did you guys check on how many 07 SV's were still at the port?

Irrelevant.  The docs were there, and that's what it was based on.

 

Either we will agree that doubt exists or the bar will be lowered way down for what is needed to get other trunk kits "legalized" in stock. I just need to get a package added to dealer order sheets right when a production year ends and price it way out of line and it is an option package. Am I understanding this correctly? THAT IS ALL I NEED cause that is what the standard was with this particular option package. Maybe I can say "contact TRD" or "Lotus USA" or "GMPP" for more info on ordering the car and then steer them to buying just the parts....

Every case will be looked at independently.  There is no "case law" in Solo.  There is no "legal precedent" that is set.  Sure, people will use past history to support their case,  but one thing does not guarantee another. 

 

I don't think that saying "it's ok in this particular case" is what is best for the sport as a whole even if the car is temporarily ok in CS.

And you are welcome to that opinion.  As I stated earlier, "every contentious issue...."

 

Stay tuned for more action!

Here, let me help you with that...

As I have stated over and over, the car is classed (page 157).  Classing of a car is not a protestable item.  Your only course of action is to have the BOD issue some sort of emergency rules change.  Good luck with that. 

--Andy

I don't know if everyone knows this but as of 2 weeks ago, the MS-R springs/shocks/swaybars/under and rear braces are not shown in the 07 NC parts lists that the dealers have.

The dealers CAN NOT get the parts either. They come up as "not available" in the computer when you enter the part #'s. A person going into a dealership to buy the parts is not able to get them. A dealer is not able to get the parts if a car comes in for warranty work on say the bracing cracking or the shock leaking. 

These are not NC parts according to the part #'s either. They are "accessory" part #'s which frees Mazda from having to supply parts for all that want them. Parts that start with 0000- are accessory parts in Mazdaspeak. What is the Federal rule about having to maintain an inventory of parts for a car? 10 years? It does not apply in this case.

Do these FACTS(as of 2 weeks ago) not concern other stock class and SP competitors? (bracing for SP up).

I have not checked the FSM's but I bet there is no mention of anything MS-R in there.

Even though Club is allowing the "kit" to be run in SSB along with other "approved" trunk kits, the under and rear bracing is not being allowed is how I understand it.(yea, yea what do they know right?) At least they are calling a spade and spade.

Anyhoo...That is some of the other problems that I have with the trunk kit.

FM

PS: I didn't come up with the factory forged documentation thing. I just said that some think that way.

Ok that last one was below the belt. I"m putting a Hillary sticker on your car next time I see you. :)   You know very well I"m a right winger :) 
 

Andy Hollis:

Davebs14:

Whether or not people will order it is not the point. It's not listed on the sheet at the dealer to order.

The SEB had information to the contrary. Are you suggesting it was forged?

 

Just because its legal doesn't make it in the spirit of the rules. This will be IMO a huge mistake that was made classing a car. I'm glad a have a kart (not a real car) and a HS car (a class too slow for anyone to care to make a special model). :)

And that's an opinion, which you are welcome to.  But its irrelevant as far as how the rules are applied.  Honestly, I just don't see the sky falling right now and I'm looking out the window as I type this.  

 

But I am happy to see the MX5 as a competitive car, and I understand fully why it was classed where it is (CS is where it belongs). But people are upset about the principal of the deal more than the classing of the car. i'm not upset though I don't believe. I just don't agree with it.

 

So get off your left-wing liberal philosphical soapbox and live with the fact that the situation in this case is just fine.  It's legal by the rules, it opens no new loopholes, and it works well for the membership at large.  What's more, it keeps some fresh new cars competitive in CS (since it's quite clear that no one in a Solstice can even beat a certain 99 Miata).

 

 

--Andy 

Fastmike:

I don't know if everyone knows this but as of 2 weeks ago, the MS-R springs/shocks/swaybars/under and rear braces are not shown in the 07 NC parts lists that the dealers have.

The dealers CAN NOT get the parts either. They come up as "not available" in the computer when you enter the part #'s. A person going into a dealership to buy the parts is not able to get them. A dealer is not able to get the parts if a car comes in for warranty work on say the bracing cracking or the shock leaking. 

These are not NC parts according to the part #'s either. They are "accessory" part #'s which frees Mazda from having to supply parts for all that want them. Parts that start with 0000- are accessory parts in Mazdaspeak. What is the Federal rule about having to maintain an inventory of parts for a car? 10 years? It does not apply in this case.

Do these FACTS(as of 2 weeks ago) not concern other stock class and SP competitors? (bracing for SP up).

I have not checked the FSM's but I bet there is no mention of anything MS-R in there.

Even though Club is allowing the "kit" to be run in SSB along with other "approved" trunk kits, the under and rear bracing is not being allowed is how I understand it.(yea, yea what do they know right?) At least they are calling a spade and spade.

Anyhoo...That is some of the other problems that I have with the trunk kit.

FM

PS: I didn't come up with the factory forged documentation thing. I just said that some think that way.

 

Geez, and I thought G-Stock was bad.  I am now questioning my decision to move to CS, it appear it has more drama than GS. lol  I really didn't think that was possible. 

 Craig "going to pick up 07 Miata this weekend with MSR package sitting in garage" Wilcox

OasisTan:

 Craig "going to pick up 07 Miata this weekend with MSR package sitting in garage" Wilcox

No, I don't think so.  If the dealer can't get the parts,then you can't.  You must be imagining the parts, or they are fake. 

Seriously though.  How we got here doesn't really matter.  The MS-R is legal, everyone should just get over it. 

I see where GM is coming out with a port option to "combat" the MS-R....

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3028880320047935481EgvYix

Fastmike:

I don't know if everyone knows this but as of 2 weeks ago, the MS-R springs/shocks/swaybars/under and rear braces are not shown in the 07 NC parts lists that the dealers have.

The dealers CAN NOT get the parts either. They come up as "not available" in the computer when you enter the part #'s. A person going into a dealership to buy the parts is not able to get them. A dealer is not able to get the parts if a car comes in for warranty work on say the bracing cracking or the shock leaking. 

These are not NC parts according to the part #'s either. They are "accessory" part #'s which frees Mazda from having to supply parts for all that want them. Parts that start with 0000- are accessory parts in Mazdaspeak. What is the Federal rule about having to maintain an inventory of parts for a car? 10 years? It does not apply in this case.

More facts:

There are parts for the 2003 Club Sport that cannot be ordered, either.  Certain items were massaged.  If you look in the parts book, there is no unique listing for the CS items.  Springs & front crossmember come to mind as I recall, but I'd have to do some digging to get all of it right.

Another example is the Cobra R Mustang rear package shelf.  It could never be ordered seperately (people now fabricate them so they can delete the rear seat in ESP).   And yet more examples come from the current Shelby Mustang.  For example, the hood scoop cannot be ordered from anywhere.  So you can't do a real complete option package conversion or fix an existing car that is crashed.  Folks trying to do package conversions right now are subbing in a different scoop.

Need more?  I can probably come up with some. 

--Andy 

PS: FM, I thought you (and a bunch of like-thinkers) were quitting SCCA?  Why are you still posting on SCCAforums?   

SoloRT:

I see where GM is coming out with a port option to "combat" the MS-R....

 

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3028880320047935481EgvYix

Boy, I hope that option comes with some 3M X-Pel to keep the paint from being scratched by all those casings hitting the Zaino!!

Andy Hollis:

Fastmike:

I don't know if everyone knows this but as of 2 weeks ago, the MS-R springs/shocks/swaybars/under and rear braces are not shown in the 07 NC parts lists that the dealers have.

The dealers CAN NOT get the parts either. They come up as "not available" in the computer when you enter the part #'s. A person going into a dealership to buy the parts is not able to get them. A dealer is not able to get the parts if a car comes in for warranty work on say the bracing cracking or the shock leaking. 

These are not NC parts according to the part #'s either. They are "accessory" part #'s which frees Mazda from having to supply parts for all that want them. Parts that start with 0000- are accessory parts in Mazdaspeak. What is the Federal rule about having to maintain an inventory of parts for a car? 10 years? It does not apply in this case.

More facts:

There are parts for the 2003 Club Sport that cannot be ordered, either.  Certain items were massaged.  If you look in the parts book, there is no unique listing for the CS items.  Springs & front crossmember come to mind as I recall, but I'd have to do some digging to get all of it right.

Another example is the Cobra R Mustang rear package shelf.  It could never be ordered seperately (people now fabricate them so they can delete the rear seat in ESP).   And yet more examples come from the current Shelby Mustang.  For example, the hood scoop cannot be ordered from anywhere.  So you can't do a real complete option package conversion or fix an existing car that is crashed.  Folks trying to do package conversions right now are subbing in a different scoop.

Need more?  I can probably come up with some. 

--Andy 

PS: FM, I thought you (and a bunch of like-thinkers) were quitting SCCA?  Why are you still posting on SCCAforums?   

 

If you have the proper documentation on a Shelby, you can get the hood scoop to repair your car.  Same with the stripes.  But to do the complete GT to Shelby GT conversion, you sub the scoop and stripes from something like the CS/GT.  But no one in FS seems to be doing that except for Jason everyone else is buying the real deal.  I like FS cause that Shelby came along and not too many people cried foul over how legit or not the Shelby GT is, its just giving the class a pulse now. 

I thought that there was no case law in SOLO?

Quoting other examples that are grey that no one has protested yet doesn't make it ok in this case imo.

Quitting in one option forsure. Volunteering for SEB duties is another. 

FM

ccytrader:

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If you have the proper documentation on a Shelby, you can get the hood scoop to repair your car.  Same with the stripes.

Can you buy it from directly from Ford in the "normal" parts listings?  If so, I'll remove that example from my memory.

--Andy 

Fastmike:

I thought that there was no case law in SOLO?

Quoting other examples that are grey doesn't make it ok in this case imo.

Maybe I should volunteer for the SEB....

FM

Just adding more to the mix so that you understand that this is not as unique a situation as you may think it is.  For *your* education.

--Andy 

Andy Hollis:

ccytrader:

[

 

If you have the proper documentation on a Shelby, you can get the hood scoop to repair your car.  Same with the stripes.

Can you buy it from directly from Ford in the "normal" parts listings?  If so, I'll remove that example from my memory.

--Andy 

Oh no, there are some hoops to jump through and some DNA testing if I am not mistaken. 

Andy Hollis:

Fastmike:

I thought that there was no case law in SOLO?

Quoting other examples that are grey doesn't make it ok in this case imo.

Maybe I should volunteer for the SEB....

FM

Just adding more to the mix so that you understand that this is not as unique a situation as you may think it is.  For *your* education.

--Andy 

I appreciate your help, I really do. But I am having a hard time getting over this. You at least have to admit that the whole thing is more than a little grey.

FM

Fastmike:

I appreciate your help, I really do. But I am having a hard time getting over this. You at least have to admit that the whole thing is more than a little grey.

FM

I've been doing this for 30 years and have seen an awful lot of unusual circumstances.  IMO, this one has some shades of grey, but is far from the greyest.

This is likely your first exposure to this sort of thing.  You better get out now if this one causes you so much heartache, 'cuz there will be more, and worse.  I fear for your sanity.  

--Andy

Andy Hollis:

I've been doing this for 30 years and have seen an awful lot of unusual circumstances.  IMO, this one has some shades of grey, but is far from the greyest.

This is likely your first exposure to this sort of thing.  You better get out now if this one causes you so much heartache, 'cuz there will be more, and worse.  I fear for your sanity.  

--Andy

Yeah, and you'e still a puppy!!

I really do think you've done a wonderful job of explaining this whole thing, Andy.  I hope people appreciate it.  I certanly do!!

With Numerous H's & K's,
Rick Ruth

It might be too late to completely keep my sanity but that is another subject...LOL!

This isn't the first thing...The 93 MR2 Hardtop/ABS thing was also iffy in my mind but I think that is way past the prove/disprove date and the paperwork is there and the computers are long gone.

You know what a stickler I am for trying my hardest to make sure my stuff is legal and documentatable(is that a word?). Heck! I bought all new springs for my 94R cause I was worried that if someone wanted to buy new ones and compare them to the ones I had they would match. I was nervous about some of the grey area in the documents on that issue. Turns out the new springs and old springs were a near match but I felt better.

People sometimes laugh at me for the extent I go to confirm/recheck/revalidate etc. on my stuff.

FM

Fastmike:

..snip.. But I am having a hard time getting over this.

What is easier to get over? This or when your PAX/RTP number changes .002