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I couldn't sleep last night. I was too excited.

Go GM!

FM

MilesJ:

But Mike, where will you find Bilstein dampers for this car????

 

In the Great White North! 

 http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/PartDetails.php?partId=871&catId=871&catName=JP0871

BrianGT:

  I wonder if GM performance will come out with some sort of GXP package for it to address it's potential shortcomings?

-Brian
 

GXP/ ZOK package will debut at Nationals. :)

The first ones are hitting dealerships:

Man that rear camber is messed up.

Someone must have jacked the car up or something to move it.

Maybe they need to roll it forward and backwards?

Cool pic though!
Thanxs!
FM

FYI, Chevy is running ads (at least in Connecticut) offering $1,000.00 back on a variety of cars. Corvettes are excluded.

I take back making fun of the car. By the numbers, it would be an interesting fit in D Stock.

brian94ht:

GXP/ ZOK package will debut at Nationals. :)

Why would you go from a Solstice, which has arguably one of the best suspension designs available for autocross, to a FWD car with basic strut front suspension, that's going to eat race tires?  

Oh that's right......PAX.  

Orthonormal:

brian94ht:

GXP/ ZOK package will debut at Nationals. :)

And the first production examples will arrive at dealers in November....

...and be 2009 model year vehicles. 

A couple points of clarification, please.

1) A reference was made to the Saturn Ion. It was discontinued in 2007, so how does it fit into the Cobalt SS discussion? Am I missing something?

2) There is reference to GXP/Z0K versions. HUH? Pontiac stuff, or does Pontiac have a version of the Cobalt SS?

3) BTW, Koni has custom DA race shocks as well as SA Sport strut inserts and rear shocks available.

This thing has my interest as well.  

snaponbob:

1) A reference was made to the Saturn Ion. It was discontinued in 2007, so how does it fit into the Cobalt SS discussion? Am I missing something?

 

 Same chassis, verified to have an FSM reference to legally slot the struts for ~1.8* of negative camber.  The assumption, not yet verified, is that the Cobalt Turbo SS should have the same FSM reference.  Obviously the amount of negative camber the SS Turbo may or may not be able to acheive is critical to its competitiveness. 

gary p:

snaponbob:

1) A reference was made to the Saturn Ion. It was discontinued in 2007, so how does it fit into the Cobalt SS discussion? Am I missing something?

 

 Same chassis, verified to have an FSM reference to legally slot the struts for ~1.8* of negative camber.  The assumption, not yet verified, is that the Cobalt Turbo SS should have the same FSM reference.  Obviously the amount of negative camber the SS Turbo may or may not be able to acheive is critical to its competitiveness. 

Thanks for the clarification. BUT !!!!  It just might be real competitive AND eat tires. Precedent? Minis. 

snaponbob:

gary p:

snaponbob:

1) A reference was made to the Saturn Ion. It was discontinued in 2007, so how does it fit into the Cobalt SS discussion? Am I missing something?

 

 Same chassis, verified to have an FSM reference to legally slot the struts for ~1.8* of negative camber.  The assumption, not yet verified, is that the Cobalt Turbo SS should have the same FSM reference.  Obviously the amount of negative camber the SS Turbo may or may not be able to acheive is critical to its competitiveness. 

Thanks for the clarification. BUT !!!!  It just might be real competitive AND eat tires. Precedent? Minis. 

Oh, it will eat tires regardless, just eat them a little less with camber. 

I  think it'll need at least a degree of negative camber, probably more, to have enough front end grip to be competitive against the cars in DS, or a GS MINI-S, for that matter. 

gary p:

I  think it'll need at least a degree of negative camber, probably more, to have enough front end grip to be competitive against the cars in DS, or a GS MINI-S, for that matter. 

I would agree with this. The car sounds great but there's already a similar type car that's been giving it a whirl: the ACR SRT-4. However, the Cobalt sounds like it's what, 2,3,400 lbs heavier even? My car weighs in at 2800 lbs in autocross trim, has plenty of camber and a decent contact patch. I put some trick shocks on it and front swaybar and I'm at best in the hunt.

 I think it's great that mags think it handles great and engineers found that a certain shock setting works great on the car but you know what that tells me? The car is that much closer to full potential right out of the box since shocks are free in Stock. I'm not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just trying to keep it real. The MCS kicks autocross butt because it is light, narrow, zippy, has a great suspension and has perfectly sized tires available. The ITR kicks butt because it is light, has a great suspension and is zippy. The Cobalt sounds like it is heavy and has a not so great rear suspension.

I talked to Stacey at length about the ACR's shortcomings in stock class. Mostly it boils down to front tire clearance/sizing according to him.

I don't think this car is going to have that problem but I don't know forsure hence my waiting until I see one in the flesh before buying.

Hoping race weight in under 2900lbs.

I'm not too worried about the rear suspension since it is a FWD. I like em loose anyhoo. The Celica GT I ran was a hair touchy if you lifted.

Steve: R U saying we should push for a reclass of all FWD's to GS? Let DS be the RWD and AWD class?

I don't think that would make it very far. GS is a protected class imo.

FM

Fastmike:

I talked to Stacey at length about the ACR's shortcomings in stock class. Mostly it boils down to front tire clearance/sizing according to him.

I don't think this car is going to have that problem but I don't know forsure hence my waiting until I see one in the flesh before buying.

Hoping race weight in under 2900lbs.

I'm not too worried about the rear suspension since it is a FWD. I like em loose anyhoo. The Celica GT I ran was a hair touchy if you lifted.

Steve: R U saying we should push for a reclass of all FWD's to GS? Let DS be the RWD and AWD class?

I don't think that would make it very far. GS is a protected class imo.

FM

Stacey definitely has a point. One problem ACRs have is they are not popular so we either use a too small MCS 16" tire or too tall 16" S2000 front. I think we could use a short 245 but I do alright now on 225/50s. I'm not saying my car's classing or others like it is wrong at all, I'm just saying the ITR is the best stock FWD autocross car ever made and the MCS the next best. I think people need to keep why that is in mind when selecting another FWD car to compete against them. I think it is because of their low low weights, small size, suspension design, the fact they have LSDs and good enough power. Your Celica GT eclipsed the then open diff uber sport compact Neon ACR because it weighed about the same, had a wishbone suspension, and lower center of gravity. How is the new Cobalt advancing the state of the art in FWD sport sedan design in autocrossing terms?

 Admittedly, all I know about this new Cobalt SS is what I've read in this thread but this isn't a bad source of information on the topic of it autocrossing since you know what you're talking about as do others, for sure. There's a few things that jump out at me about this car that seem similar to issues I've experienced with my own car like weight, size, and not a trick suspension, though. It does sound like it can fit more rubber than my car but it is at a much lower profile. Wouldn't that make it even more important to have plenty of camber and a real good suspension design to make use of that?

I think my car with the revised shock valving that a buddy put in his ACR can run with the ITR on a course where we can gas it at least in a couple places, like last year's Packwood NT courses but there's just no way on courses where we can't use our power. So, I think if the Cobalt can get some camber and if it weighs in like you said then it could be in the hunt. 

Again, just trying to keep it real. It would be great to see how to make a car like this or mine a winner since I don't have the resources to try it myself.

Autocross aside, I just think it's great whenever a domestic automaker produces a genuinely desireable compact car.

gsrroger:

Autocross aside, I just think it's great whenever a domestic automaker produces a genuinely desireable compact car.

 If we could just get GM to offer this drivetrain in the sexy Saturn Astra body (like they essnetially do already in Europe) I'd shed a tear. 

gary p:

gsrroger:

Autocross aside, I just think it's great whenever a domestic automaker produces a genuinely desireable compact car.

 If we could just get GM to offer this drivetrain in the sexy Saturn Astra body (like they essnetially do already in Europe) I'd shed a tear. 

If Saturn did that, I would shed a Sky Redline!!!! Maybe.

For those that don't have first hand experience with that turbo teacup 2 liter in the Redline/GXP/SSR/Cobalt SS let me just say it has power everywhere up to the 6300 rpm cutoff. The turbo is way up on the boost at 2000 rpm and over 80% of the 260 ft.lbs of torque is available from 2000-5200 rpm. At about 3000 a Redline/GXP is hauling ass in a serious way. After 12,000 miles I am still amazed that this is a 122 cubic inch engine. In the past I had a rather stout (for its day) D/SP 77 Civic with a "split wedge" positraction diff, and my guess is that the Cobalt SS with a Quaife should really be able to put down all that power rather well.

I went and looked at a 08 non SS Cobalt.

It does not appear that the camber or toe is adjustable in the rear?
That seems odd to me.

Rear suspension is a FWD car isn't a huge thing but some toe adjustment would be nice.

I am waiting until a dealer gets one on the lot so I can drive it to see if this is the way I want to go.

STX also sounds interesting.

FM