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Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

Last post 05-02-2008, 12:11 PM by DrJones_CMR. 7 replies.
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  •  12-11-2007, 11:47 AM 276633

    Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    Maybe the title is a bit extreme, but it looks like various governments are looking at mandating tires with good rolling resistance. I assume a high gas mileage tire won't autcross as fast. One data point, I ran my car on its R Hoosiers for a couple weeks and got 15% less gas mileage. Here is the article from the Wall Street Journal: 

    From the Wall Street Journal


    Green Push Hits Tire Makers Threat of Regulation Has Industry Scrambling to Block, Modify Proposals
    By STEPHEN POWER
    December 11, 2007; Page A18

    Frankfurt

    A new industry is coming under pressure as governments look for ways to make cars use less carbon-belching fuel: tire makers.

    The European Union is expected to propose regulations that would set limits on tire rolling resistance, or the force a tire must overcome to move a vehicle. In California, legislators have passed a law calling for similar rules. In Washington, Congress is considering legislation that would create a consumer-information program on tire energy efficiency.

    KICKING THE TIRES

    •  Beyond Cars: Regulators in the EU and U.S. are considering moves to make tires more energy efficient.
    •  Defraying Pressure: The move comes as car makers complain they bear the brunt of costly fuel-efficiency efforts.
    •  Differing Responses: The industry opposes the toughest measures but supports others that give them an advantage over lower-cost tire makers.

    The threat of new regulations has prompted a rush by established tire makers to block the most rigorous proposals. In Europe, tire makers are moving to shape the regulations in ways that would give them an advantage against less technologically advanced rivals.

    The focus on tires reflects a broader effort by governments to shift some of the burden of fuel-economy rules away from auto makers, which say job cuts and costly design changes will result from the most ambitious proposals to cut vehicle emissions. This year, the EU eased its proposal for cutting average emissions of carbon dioxide, which contributes to global warming, from new  cars in Europe to 18% over five years from the 25% it had proposed earlier.

    To make up the difference, the European Commission plans to go beyond more-efficient engines. Among the body's new proposals: increased use of biofuels, more efficient air-conditioning systems in vehicles, and energy-efficiency standards for tires.

    In theory, boosting a tire's energy efficiency is relatively easy and inexpensive. As much as 20% of the energy needed to operate a car is tire-related, according to some industry estimates. The lower a tire's rolling resistance, the less energy the car consumes.

    A study last year by the National Academy of Sciences in the U.S. estimated that as many as two billion gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel could be saved each year in the U.S. by reducing the average rolling resistance of automobile tires by 10%. That would be equivalent to taking four million cars and light trucks off the road. In Europe, adding low-rolling-resistance tires to cars drives up their production costs by about €20 to €30, or nearly $30 to $45, per vehicle, based on estimates by Credit Suisse Group.

    For manufacturers, an easy way to cut a tire's rolling resistance is to reduce the thickness of its tread. The problem, some industry
    officials said, is that reducing a tire's rolling resistance too much can weaken its traction or shorten the tire's life span.

    Germany's Continental AG said its tests indicate that tires designed primarily with low-rolling resistance in mind tend to have longer stopping distances on wet surfaces. The National Academy of Sciences study, however, reported that the safety consequences of reducing tire rolling resistance "are probably undetectable," and that a 10% reduction is "feasible and attainable within a decade" through new tire technologies and improved designs.

    This year, the U.S. Senate considered a proposal to require all passenger-automobile tires to meet low-rolling-resistance standards. The tire industry warned it would have to make tires that wear out more quickly, piling up more used tires in scrap yards.

    The industry coalesced around a proposal to create a national system for rating tires on energy efficiency, leaving it up to consumers and car companies to decide which tires to buy. That is part of broader legislation being considered by Congress that would also raise automobile fuel-economy standards.

    "Congressional leaders were telling us that there's a lot of concern about fuel use and that you guys need to start saying something other than 'no' to doing something," said Dan Zielinski, a spokesman for the Washington-based Rubber Manufacturers Association.

    Mr. Zielinski's group had less success dissuading California legislators from passing a law that requires state regulators to set
    energy-efficiency standards for tires. Before imposing new standards, however, state regulators are required under the law to show they won't "adversely affect" tire safety or California's effort to manage scrap tires or tire life span. Although California's law raises the prospect of a de-facto national standard, industry officials are skeptical the state will ever be able to implement such standards.

    "We believe the thresholds they need to overcome are not likely to be surmountable," Mr. Zielinski said. A spokeswoman for the California Energy Commission said the agency is "confident that we can work with the tire industry to establish tire efficiency standards that meet our mandates."

    In Europe, tire makers have concluded new regulations are inevitable. Unlike the U.S., the EU is party to the Kyoto Protocol, the
    international treaty that sets mandatory targets for cutting global greenhouse-gas emissions.

    Rather than try to block new EU standards, Western and Japanese tire makers are pressing regulators not only to set standards for rolling resistance, but also to establish new requirements for braking performance and to mandate consumer-friendly labels that would grade tires on energy efficiency and how well they perform on wet or slippery surfaces.

    By taking on mandates, the industry's more established players, such as Continental and Japan's Bridgestone Corp., could gain an edge against tire makers from India and China, which tend to spend less on research and development, industry analysts said.

    France's Michelin SA is touting the fuel-saving potential of its "green tires." The company recently started a global ad campaign for
    its most energy-efficient tires.

    This year, Michelin got a major boost when French car maker PSA Peugeot-Citroen SA adopted its fourth-generation "Energy Saver" tire for the new Peugeot 308 hatchback. Michelin officials say the tires will cut the car's carbon dioxide emissions by four grams per kilometer, equal to a reduction of about one metric ton of carbon dioxide during the life of the vehicle. The tire's braking distance on wet roads also is about 10 feet shorter than the previous-generation tire. Michelin charges auto makers about 10% more for the tire than it does for a conventional tire, though specific price levels depend on the volume of the car maker's order, a Michelin spokesman said. Price levels for the replacement market haven't been announced yet.

    "We know how to make a tire which can brake short and at the same time is fuel efficient," said Thierry Coudurier, president of Michelin's  passenger-car and light-truck tire division. "We don't think all of our competitors are able to do that."

    Write to Stephen Power at stephen.power@wsj.com

     


    1994 Camaro Z28 FS
  •  12-11-2007, 12:27 PM 276641 in reply to 276633

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    Right because the rolling resistance of all the new Hemi motors from dodge, and the fact that every car is like 300 lbs heavier then the previous generation is what makes them suck back fuel...

    What about mandating lighter wheels from OEM, they seem to be able to find a way to make the heaviest wheels possible.

    So this would now become part of the D.O.T. standards testing then? because the tires are rated for competition use only right now, they just meet the construction and safety standards of D.O.T.

     

     


    KEEP NATIONALS FROM CONCRETE! CAUSE I NEVER RUN ON IT!

    2007 SCCA National DS Runner-up
    Badlands SCCA
    2007 Nationals Runs
  •  01-22-2008, 7:57 PM 281669 in reply to 276641

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    I work for a well-known company that produces tires and many other automotive products, and in their internal newsletter they brought up some concerns about the push for low-rolling-resistance tires.  The problem with these tires is that they tend to sacrifice grip by using harder compounds.  A study was conducted that showed the effects on braking distances of these low-rolling-resistance tires vs. a conventional tire, and in this particular example it was found that braking distances from 100km/h increased by 8 meters, from 72m to 80m.  This presents a safety concern, and it is this concern that was brought up to the EU who were trying to push this initiative. 

     Needless to say, I won't be putting any of those hockey pucks on my car to save a few MPG...

     

    EDIT, I should have read the entire first post...    my information was already there.  Doh!

     

    What they should really mandate is that Joe Blow from Idaho actually inflates his tires to the proper pressures, which will lower rolling resistance without sacrificing grip.  I can't tell you how many cars I see every day driving around on tires that are nearly flat. 


    64ES
    5th highest total number of cones hit at 2007 Nationals. Sorry workers!
  •  01-26-2008, 12:26 PM 282219 in reply to 281669

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    neurokinetik:

    What they should really mandate is that Joe Blow from Idaho actually inflates his tires to the proper pressures, which will lower rolling resistance without sacrificing grip.  I can't tell you how many cars I see every day driving around on tires that are nearly flat. 

    I think that's already being covered by the tire pressure monitoring systems that are going to be required on all new cars in the near future. 

     

  •  01-27-2008, 9:50 AM 282288 in reply to 282219

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    Here's part of a reply from someone who works at one of the companies that supplies us road race and solo folks with tires:

     I really do not think this will apply to small quantity or specialty tire manufacturers. It is pretty scary what happens when the government steps in with some hair brained idea, it costs the public or businesses. I understand what they are trying to do, but I really do not think legislation which may pass in the future will affect us.


    Matt Murray

    I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.
  •  05-01-2008, 11:27 PM 298130 in reply to 276633

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    Way to tackle the issue. When highway driving results in over 80% of the energy expended due to air resistance and less than 2% on rolling resistance, you'd think a better approach would be to reduce speed limits.

     Seems like that would also increase safety where as reducing tire rolling resistance results in a less safe tire. How ironical. If only engineers could make better politicians.

  •  05-02-2008, 10:20 AM 298168 in reply to 298130

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    It's got what plants crave!
  •  05-02-2008, 12:11 PM 298187 in reply to 298168

    Re: Legal Death for Stock Class Race Tires?

    glagola1:
    It's got what plants crave!

     haha, that's a great movie!

    I also work at a tire manufacture, and it is well known that low RR tires do not perform well. Just ask any prius driver if the OE tires stop very well. many will actually change tires early because they are afraid of not being able to stop.


    Alex Jones
    2007 A-Street Prepared GXP
    www.CrazyMonkeyRacing.com

    because 285's were not enough...
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