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A fellow autocrosser and I had a discussion in the spring that revolved around rebuilding engines for stock class at performance shops.  We came to the conclusion that it is risky business.  Why?  Such builders know tricks and want to make the customer happy.  If the builder makes a 'strong' motor, more business may come his way.  Keep this in mind when pointing the finger at Andy.  I personally think that he would be a bit anal about being legal as he loves this sport.  I don't know him.  I know from others that he is very competitive, but I think he was unaware in this case of the mods.

 

aansorge:

A fellow autocrosser and I had a discussion in the spring that revolved around rebuilding engines for stock class at performance shops.  We came to the conclusion that it is risky business.  Why?  Such builders know tricks and want to make the customer happy.  If the builder makes a 'strong' motor, more business may come his way.  Keep this in mind when pointing the finger at Andy.  I personally think that he would be a bit anal about being legal as he loves this sport.  I don't know him.  I know from others that he is very competitive, but I think he was unaware in this case of the mods.

 

 

 

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Trying to get faster

mwood:

the shims were the extent of the allowed protest and that there were no Ti retainers or other items.

 

I think what is at issue is that there is reasonable doubt.  One could further question the results of any event he has participated in at this point.  I dont know the full story, I wasnt there, but stories like this are upsetting to read none the less.  When there are signs of a trend, assumptions can be made.  Perhaps all he had was a golden wing nut visible, but its human to assume that might not be the only thing.  Its obviously harder to prove innocence then guilt, but I think thats what andy is left with at this point.

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Scott
07 Mazdaspeed 3

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car. The "didn't know" act is pure bovine fecal matter. If he's clean, great, but if he's not, I don't care if Andy pays tens of thousands of dollars and kisses babies all day, he doesn't belong in our sport which is governed by rules. I've been to three National Championships and NEVER cheated. Why is it so difficult, NOT to? This is really embarrassing for me to try to explain to my new, hopeful autocross friends why cheating in SCCA can be bought off for a few bucks and an apology. Andy's stage act was so nice. What a great guy! Kinda like Clinton promising to dryclean the next dress he soils. Go ahead and ban me. I'm just telling it like it is.

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James Plotkin
'05 FSP Echo

James, Mark, others who apparently have some sort of axe to grind, there is an obvious difference between being found "illegal" and "cheating".  To cheat is to have intent to do so to gain an advantage.

Andy did not cheat. He was found illegal based on ignorance on his part. 

I spent the past year and a half autocrossing a Mini Cooper S in GS with a torso harness.  I sold that car and picked up a stock Miata a month and a half ago and just moved that little strap into that car, as well.  Chris Fenter was nice enough to let me know that it wasn't legal in an open cockpit car so I got rid of it.  I had forgotten about the open cockpit rule and was even used to using one in my previous MIatas because of its roll protection.  Am I a cheater?

These threads just bring out the usual trolls who look for any reason to dislike Andy because of what happened YEARS ago.  Anytime something like this comes up, the usual people pipe in and blow hot air.  If you have the inability to forgive others mistakes because apparently you are too perfect to make any mistakes, then I truly feel badly for you when your own day of judgment comes.

 

d

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Dan Pedroza
CS 72/172
2008 Nationals CS first loser

Howdy,

sm2dan:

James, Mark, others who apparently have some sort of axe to grind, there is an obvious difference between being found "illegal" and "cheating".  To cheat is to have intent to do so to gain an advantage.

Andy did not cheat. He was found illegal based on ignorance on his part. 

#1, prove that Andy didn't cheat, and was just illegal, using your definitions (which I think are good).

#2, if you think my "axe to grind" is anything other than "treat all competitors equally", you're wrong about that too.

Mark

(Oh, on #1?  I also can't prove it either way.  And neither can anyone else.  _Which is why it doesn't matter_.)

(edit:

These threads just bring out the usual trolls who look for any reason to dislike Andy because of what happened YEARS ago.

Find another thread on any internet forum anywhere, where I've expressed a dislike for Andy Hollis, vs. a dislike or disagreement with something Andy has written/said.  I wouldn't say Andy is some huge personal friend of mine, but I do think we've always had a cordial / mostly respectful relationship over a number of years of autox history.  Certainly I've never gotten the feeling he wanted to slap me when I've talked to him in person... :-)  Hopefully he understands why I believe he should be expelled from the SCCA over this, and our personal relationship won't change.  But if he doesn't, I'll understand, given that this must suck for him.)

atcovan:

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car.

Done deal.

Next year, I will tear down the entire car for free.  No protest required.  You just buy me new gaskets for everything so I can put it back together.  Seriously.  In fact, if you have some time, come down to TX right now and we'll do it this year.  The car will be in the garage for three weeks while we visit some friends out west, but I'll be back in town for a month after that.  Come down and we'll take it all apart.  Everyone is welcome, not just you.  I'm really serious.

--Andy

Andy Hollis:

atcovan:

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car.

Done deal.

Next year, I will tear down the entire car for free.  No protest required.  You just buy me new gaskets for everything so I can put it back together.  Seriously.  In fact, if you have some time, come down to TX right now and we'll do it this year.  The car will be in the garage for three weeks while we visit some friends out west, but I'll be back in town for a month after that.  Come down and we'll take it all apart.  Everyone is welcome, not just you.  I'm really serious.

--Andy

If I had the time, I would bring a chair, camera, and martini pitcher !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ten bucks says NO TAKERS.

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Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

mwood:

David Lehman:

Roses are Red...

David, you know I like you and, usually, can get in to your "unique" sense of humor, but I gotta tell you, you are adding absolutely zero...zilch...nada to this discussion.

btw, those who appear to be close to the situation are saying that the shims were the extent of the allowed protest and that there were no Ti retainers or other items.

Its The David Lehman Show.

Who knows since Lehman Bros is going under, David might be looking for a new career as a standup comedian.

Again, there was no protest. The car was found under the required top 5 tech inspection.

Doug Gill in my opinion has done a great job in requiring the tech inspection to benefit the drivers who painstakingly work to make their cars legal to a T.

This is a common practice in most road races.

 

I"d go to hang with the austin crowd and see Andy's garage :)

Having competed against Andy I liked it. It was also neat to see various ways to save weight. I picked up a few tips from him that save me an average 10lbs on every stock car I've run. :)  He's always been straight forward as long as I've known him as well.
 

Andy Hollis:

atcovan:

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car.

Done deal.

Next year, I will tear down the entire car for free.  No protest required.  You just buy me new gaskets for everything so I can put it back together.  Seriously.  In fact, if you have some time, come down to TX right now and we'll do it this year.  The car will be in the garage for three weeks while we visit some friends out west, but I'll be back in town for a month after that.  Come down and we'll take it all apart.  Everyone is welcome, not just you.  I'm really serious.

--Andy

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David Hedderick
Pearland (Houston), TX
01 CRG YZ125 (FOR SALE! $2500)
08 Mazda 3s
02 Mazda Protege (automatic tow vehicle)
92 Miata SE - Fun half-arsed STS2 Car

This thread is both amusing and sad at the same time.

 What's done is done. Time to move on folks.

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Brian Cembor
It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
25 STS 1989 Civic Si

If "out West" includes Northern California, come out and drive the Integra.  I'd love to see your technique and hear your opinions of the car...  That goes for both of you...  Or we can probably find a Civic for you to drive!

 

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Charlie Davis
Old age and treachery...

Andy Hollis:

atcovan:

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car.

Done deal.

Next year, I will tear down the entire car for free.  No protest required.  You just buy me new gaskets for everything so I can put it back together.  Seriously.  In fact, if you have some time, come down to TX right now and we'll do it this year.  The car will be in the garage for three weeks while we visit some friends out west, but I'll be back in town for a month after that.  Come down and we'll take it all apart.  Everyone is welcome, not just you.  I'm really serious.

--Andy

 

Andy, I'll volunteer our shop space for free!

d

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Dan Pedroza
CS 72/172
2008 Nationals CS first loser

 

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Trying to get faster

The surprising thing to me about all this is how everyone tolerates Mark Smith endlessly, yet Andy seems to be held to a completely different standard.

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Jesse Caudill
74 STS
Colorado Region/Continental Divide Region

Uh oh.

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Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

it's a horse not a cow, (goofball),,   how about we just put a minum weight for andy's skinny a$$ of 175 lbs  next year for his penance,  would love to see him huff and puff a little during his morning runs,, sure hope he changes his mind about next year

 

David Lehman:

Not trying to be a wise ass here. (really not)-------

But taking the car apart weeks or months after it leaves impound is irrelevent.

That's why you can't leave IMPOUND at the end of an event until after your class is released.  It's a moot point.  The car was DSQ'ed.

Taking it apart after the fact is like closing the barn door after letting the cow out. (or however that saying goes).

Larry, you old fart.  How you doing ?  Missed you.

Your Bud,

lehman

 

 

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Trying to get faster

Andy Hollis:

atcovan:

Given his track record, not hearsay, but actual proof of forgery and purposeful deceit in the past, had I been a competitor in STS, I'd pony as much $$ necessary to tear-down the entire car.

Done deal.

Next year, I will tear down the entire car for free.  No protest required.  You just buy me new gaskets for everything so I can put it back together.  Seriously.  In fact, if you have some time, come down to TX right now and we'll do it this year.  The car will be in the garage for three weeks while we visit some friends out west, but I'll be back in town for a month after that.  Come down and we'll take it all apart.  Everyone is welcome, not just you.  I'm really serious.

--Andy

 I was on the south side of the original Hollis DSQ at the (1991?) Pro Solo in the early 90s (the car was the same configuration for the SoloII Nationals but the DSQ was not applied to that just the Pro & it would have been my 7th National Championship).

Yes, I was a little angry but Andy did ManUp and give me a sincere, direct and inperson appology when he came back to nationals after paying the large fine that the SCCA had imposed. I'm good with it.

I still would have liked that Solo II trophy though...

A person must be responsible for thier car and what was done to it, even if a pro built assembly. However it's really hard to keep on top of a builder. You tell them a dozen times and hand them the rule book to work from, but unless the builder has been through SCCA tech and really understands the rules they will use standard building practices for drag or hot rodding.  I have had to throw away heads from improper milling even after handing them all of the manufacture data and rules info for min/max ranges.

Andy, Your offering to do the right thing, kudos. You may want to have Doug Gill come down and dissamble/inspect everything and Blog/post results even if no one takes up you offer. That may be the only way to put this to bed.

 

Alan McCrispin

your old guys know me as Alan McConnell (name change at marriage)

This probably needs to be reduced to one thread...

 

http://sccaforums.com/forums/3/322142/ShowThread.aspx#322142