SCCAForums.com

Aufaber:

I gotta say, it seems like it would be unlikely that it's a cost of car issue. STU is 90% evos and sti's and they're up to 35 entrants right now. The cost of construction of a nationally competitive car for either is fairly close. I'd say the barrier to entry would have more to do with the secondary items required to run SP, like a tow vehicle and trailer except a large portion of the nationally competitive STU cars are actually trailered to events and run on tires that are only used for racing.

 It really could just be that people don't want to invest in moving up to BSP when they know they will have to run against Tom in an extremely well setup car.. I guess the real test for that would be to ask the question, "Would more people be signed up if it was just Marshall driving the Showcase Evo?"

F Stock seems to be doing pretty well and Sam has been pretty much untouchable for the past two years.  There are more people signed up in SM2 than there are in BSP and there are three guys there that seem head and shoulders faster than the rest of the class.  I don't know what it is, but the current formula just isn't working.

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John Vitamvas
stranoparts.com / TeamWTF.org '04 Z06

John V:

Aufaber:

I gotta say, it seems like it would be unlikely that it's a cost of car issue. STU is 90% evos and sti's and they're up to 35 entrants right now. The cost of construction of a nationally competitive car for either is fairly close. I'd say the barrier to entry would have more to do with the secondary items required to run SP, like a tow vehicle and trailer except a large portion of the nationally competitive STU cars are actually trailered to events and run on tires that are only used for racing.

 It really could just be that people don't want to invest in moving up to BSP when they know they will have to run against Tom in an extremely well setup car.. I guess the real test for that would be to ask the question, "Would more people be signed up if it was just Marshall driving the Showcase Evo?"

F Stock seems to be doing pretty well and Sam has been pretty much untouchable for the past two years.  There are more people signed up in SM2 than there are in BSP and there are three guys there that seem head and shoulders faster than the rest of the class.  I don't know what it is, but the current formula just isn't working.

No class likes either real, or perceived, rules instability...maybe the sense is that the rally cars aren't classed "correctly" in SP?

I dunno...but, in the ST classes, where there are less concerns with upsetting spec rally car, there seems to be plenty of interest in stepping up and spending the required $$ to build a competitive car. I do agree that there is something very real about the "streetability" of a ST car vs. a SP car, as well..

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

mwood:

No class likes either real, or perceived, rules instability...maybe the sense is that the rally cars aren't classed "correctly" in SP?

I dunno...but, in the ST classes, where there are less concerns with upsetting spec rally car, there seems to be plenty of interest in stepping up and spending the required $$ to build a competitive car. I do agree that there is something very real about the "streetability" of a ST car vs. a SP car, as well..

I could see the instability arguement, going into this year there was no idea where the SPAC/SEB would go with BSP. Certainly a reason not to start developemnet on one.

Now that it seems pretty obvious they are gonna leave the Evos and just start feeding in the slower ASP cars maybe we'll start seeing more of them in the next year. Especialy now that the prices on the stock examples are starting to come down pricewise.

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-Aaron G>

Timmons Subaru
ZZYZXmotorsports.com
www.ChaseCam.com

When the Evo and STi were moved into BSP there were other cars that should have been moved - Boxster and Boxster S, E46 M3, BMW M Coupe and M Roadster, etc.  But they weren't.  The Boxster just got moved for '08 and the other cars are still ridiculously classed in ASP. 

The other frustrating part is that the Evo and STi are competitive in both SM and STU.  Why do they need three classes?  And which one would you rather prep a car for? 

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John Vitamvas
stranoparts.com / TeamWTF.org '04 Z06

Aufaber:

. Especialy now that the prices on the stock examples are starting to come down pricewise.

 

+1...I think there's lots of competitive possibilities in BSP other than the 'standard' EVO/STi...it just needs some people to venture out and develope something new.

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BSP 350Z

I think a lot of us saw this coming.  Actually I'm surprised there's even 15 drivers in open this year... I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been closer to 10.

 

Real or perceived, most of the top BSP RWD guys believe the Evo is the only car that can win (note, I said "win" not "be competitive") and have left.  This wouldn't be a prob if ppl were building STiEvos and showing up in reasonable numbers.  But that's not happening.  Aaron is right, it's not really that expensive to take an STU car to BSP and be 98% there.  Maybe most don't have an interest in that or maybe it will happen in the future.

 

If you look at the entry list this year vs. the competitors last year, the majority of ppl who have left are long time National drivers, while the majority of the new blood this year are newer to the National scene.  I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but if the newer guys don't stay around, it's going to be a problem.  If a couple ppl drop out after this year, will 5-10 new ppl show up next year???

 

Also, while I know it has nothing to do with Solo classing, I think the STiEvo advantage at Pros is having an effect.

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Jason Uyeda

I would jump into B/SP in a second, and I think some other Kappas would come to play plus the return of a lot of older Corvettes. But SCCA still seems to believe that Sol/Sky 2.0's are effective weapons against Z06s, so they are still in A/SP.

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Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

spaf:

Real or perceived, most of the top BSP RWD guys believe the Evo is the only car that can win (note, I said "win" not "be competitive") and have left.  

 

I agree that some may think this...but IMO my 350Z (the car, not necessarily the driver) has a real chance against Berry - That's one reason why I'm trying to make Nationals this yr! (I did well at the Packwood NT...but I want to see how I'll stack up against the top level BSP driver's in the nation)

 

 

spaf:

Also, while I know it has nothing to do with Solo classing, I think the STiEvo advantage at Pros is having an effect.

 

I slid back 20 PAX places at the ProSolo when going from the regular PAX to the ProSolo index...IMO it's b/c the STi/Evo's AWD launch sets the benchmark for the BSP ProSolo, so all the remaining RWD BSP cars suffer.  IMO that's another reason to bring in some new blood from ASP - even with faster compeition, the AWD cars will still have a strong showing at the ProSolo events.

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BSP 350Z

FWIW - once I confirm that I'm actually going, I'll start looking for a co-driver...so that could bump us up to 16!

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BSP 350Z

DP

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

snaponbob:

I would jump into B/SP in a second, and I think some other Kappas would come to play plus the return of a lot of older Corvettes. But SCCA still seems to believe that Sol/Sky 2.0's are effective weapons against Z06s, so they are still in A/SP.

Wasn't there a recent Fastrack that put Kappas in BSP out for member comment?

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Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

DaveH:

snaponbob:

I would jump into B/SP in a second, and I think some other Kappas would come to play plus the return of a lot of older Corvettes. But SCCA still seems to believe that Sol/Sky 2.0's are effective weapons against Z06s, so they are still in A/SP.

Wasn't there a recent Fastrack that put Kappas in BSP out for member comment?

Yes.  It was in the June Fastrak.  As SnapOnBob's pet issue, I'm not sure how he missed it and forgot to send feedback...

DaveW

47CP:

DaveH:

snaponbob:

I would jump into B/SP in a second, and I think some other Kappas would come to play plus the return of a lot of older Corvettes. But SCCA still seems to believe that Sol/Sky 2.0's are effective weapons against Z06s, so they are still in A/SP.

Wasn't there a recent Fastrack that put Kappas in BSP out for member comment?

Yes.  It was in the June Fastrak.  As SnapOnBob's pet issue, I'm not sure how he missed it and forgot to send feedback...

DaveW

 

is that to say it didn't pass?

Marshall Grice:

47CP:

DaveH:

snaponbob:

I would jump into B/SP in a second, and I think some other Kappas would come to play plus the return of a lot of older Corvettes. But SCCA still seems to believe that Sol/Sky 2.0's are effective weapons against Z06s, so they are still in A/SP.

Wasn't there a recent Fastrack that put Kappas in BSP out for member comment?

Yes.  It was in the June Fastrak.  As SnapOnBob's pet issue, I'm not sure how he missed it and forgot to send feedback...

DaveW

 

is that to say it didn't pass?

Member feedback has been positive for the move so far.   

DaveW 

47CP:

Member feedback has been positive for the move so far.   

DaveW 

 That's good.  You had me scared it wasn't going to pass there for a minute.

BSP looks like a decent battle to me....

 

Tom Berry has to beat his co-driver-in-law.  Marshall Berry is pretty tough.  And after a billion hours of DL-1 analysis he might have found a setup strategy to favor his game over Tom's.

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Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub

SteveEkstrand:

Tom Berry has to beat his co-driver-in-law.  Marshall Berry is pretty tough.  And after a billion hours of DL-1 analysis he might have found a setup strategy to favor his game over Tom's.

Must... resist...

Can't.... resist....

 

 

He's going to run SM instead?  

msimanyi:

SteveEkstrand:

Tom Berry has to beat his co-driver-in-law.  Marshall Berry is pretty tough.  And after a billion hours of DL-1 analysis he might have found a setup strategy to favor his game over Tom's.

Must... resist...

Can't.... resist....

 

 

He's going to run SM instead?  

 

Oh snaaaaaap. 

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-Aaron G>

Timmons Subaru
ZZYZXmotorsports.com
www.ChaseCam.com

msimanyi:

He's going to run SM instead?  

 HEY!  I've beat Tom before.

 once.

 ...driving go karts.

 

maybe I should run SM.  With Vic running in the ladies class I might have a shot.  haha

If you hide the Snickers and Goldfish, Tom is vulnerable.

 

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Dr. Conemangler
#15 STS '91 Civic Si
CalClub