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John V:

The 135 also weighs more than a 330 ZHP and has narrower wheels.  

It does not have narrower wheels than the 330i, which is the only one that's won nationals, IIRC.

The weights I've heard about sound damn close to my car, what have you heard? 

murph1379:

It does not have narrower wheels than the 330i, which is the only one that's won nationals, IIRC.

Also 2003 was won by a 2003 330ci, on 17/7.5 & 17/8.5 255/40/17 Victoracers.   

murph1379:

yes, as I said, the cars that won nationals had 7.5" front wheels, just like the current 135. Everybody thinks the ZHP is a better car, and it's grabbed plenty of trophies, but nobody's gone all the way with one, so I'm not sure if that .5" of front wheel is really making that big a difference.

BMW lists the weight at around 3400lbs for the 135.  I thought the 330s were couple hundred pounds less.

I think the ZHP has no reason to not be a better car than the 330.  But so long as nationals is at HPT I'm not sure we'll ever find out for sure.  I feel the same way about the 135.  Maybe it will do great but I think it will be painful to drive at HPT.

Two words:

Course

Dependent

I'd like to know what does ZHP stand for or what it means? Thanks.

Zero Horse Power?
 

The Kev Master:

I'd like to know what does ZHP stand for or what it means? Thanks.

Zero Horse Power?
 

 It's the BMW option code for the "Performance Package" for the E46 330i which was first available in the sedan in 2003 and then the coupe in 2004.

If the next question is what the heck is the Performance Package: http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php?title=BMW_E46#ZHP_-_Performance_Package

Looks like it won't go straight to the ZHP link, but click on the ZHP link down under Options and Package codes.

Depending on scales, my 330i with the "performance Package" or option code "ZHP" weighed in at 3,377 to 3,431.

Specs attached

mattm:

Depending on scales, my 330i with the "performance Package" or option code "ZHP" weighed in at 3,377 to 3,431.

Specs attached

Didn't realize the E46 got so fat late in life.  Are the early 330s much lighter?

SStrokerAce:

...a ITR needs some rowing thru the gears to do well. 

Actually not really.  Some of the top ITR drivers hardly ever shift gears on course, ever. 
 

skeeter119:

rallyfreak:

[

+2

As another non-ITR DS competitor, I agree that there is NO GOOD REASON for the SEB to try to mix up the class.  You want to make DS faster than GS?  Move the Minis and SER back to DS for god's sake!  DS has had a great showing at nationals and at ProSolos, with a good mix of cars all being very competitive.  Why risk screwing up a class by putting a potential class killer in it?  Why not put the 135 in BS for a year and see how it does, then reassess?

 +3

 

Yet another non-ITR DS competitor chiming in.  I am not a great driver either and the Crossfire has proven to be competitive in its first year of development.  We are now in the second year and I know my car has made huge strides since last year with a totally new setup and we are still testing to see if anything else can be done to be faster.  Why put a potential class killer into a class that is so diverse.  Now maybe this will all be a mute point and the 135 won't dominate DS but I have a feeling that on any surface that has really good grip it will destroy the class.  At HPT I feel the TT and the WRX are great choices and the Crossfire will be able to keep right up with the ITR as well.

+ another. D stock is fine as it was. The 135i should be in B stock. WTF are they thinking 

caSSino:

So Steve Snow 2nd at DC less than .2 off over both courses, hmmmm looks like it might have a chance.

I spoke with Steve in impound yesterday after all competitive runs were complete to get his thoughts on the car since he owns both a 135 and a 128.  He said the 135 is an amazing street car, but It is a very frustrating autocross car in stock form.  You can't fit anything larger than the 245/35/18 on the front without it rubbing the hell out of the fenders and it corded the outside shoulders in 12 runs.  He had Konis but an OE front sway bar on the car this past weekend.  The car supposedly pushes like a horrid pig because you need bigger rear tires to put the power down. 

 He mentioned that he was going to be testing the 128 and the 135 back to back at local events because he feels the 128 will be a better Tour car, as you can run a better tire stagger to get it to rotate better and still put the power down.  Now it will still shred the front tires but with less weight over the front wheels due to no turbos it might be better.  Only time will tell, I finished in 6th and was only 6/10ths out of first so it was a very tight field.  My initial thought is at HPT the 135 won't be able to leverage its huge power advantage but on concrete it will be a force to be reckoned with.

skeeter119:

The car supposedly pushes like a horrid pig because you need bigger rear tires to put the power down. 

I don't understand this statement. It seems contradictory. Do you mean the back end is loose?

skeeter119:

He mentioned that he was going to be testing the 128 and the 135 back to back at local events because he feels the 128 will be a better Tour car, as you can run a better tire stagger to get it to rotate better and still put the power down.  Now it will still shred the front tires but with less weight over the front wheels due to no turbos it might be better.  Only time will tell, I finished in 6th and was only 6/10ths out of first so it was a very tight field.  My initial thought is at HPT the 135 won't be able to leverage its huge power advantage but on concrete it will be a force to be reckoned with.

Are the turbos that heavy?  Why would you be able to run better tires with the 128? Wouldn't they take the same tires or less on the 128?

Maybe he meant to write: " It needs a giant front bar to hold the inside rear down and huge rear tires to along with that to put some power down exiting corners which in turn causes push". That is my guess..

FM

I've got no dog in this fight and don't know too much about the new Bimmer, but...

I would not conclude ANYTHING about any car based on the DC Pro courses.  IMHO, the course was fun to drive, but was considerably different than other Pro courses, and MUCH different than tour courses.  There was very little speed maintenance, with several places to stop, turn, and get on the gas.

Jonathan Roberts
 

I would argue that the last third of each course was "speed maintenance" but there were at least two very "point and shoot" corners to contend with. 

Nice job by the way.

 JV