SCCAForums.com

Mooobunnny:

http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastrack/08/08-fastrack-oct-bod.pdf

 

Everything sent to the BOD passed.

 

STX 2WD gets 265mm tires and 9" wheels, unless I am reading that incorrectly.

 

 

 

If I read the BoD minutes right the RX8 is no longer excluded from STX.  Looks like I'll need some 9" wide wheels and 265 'Stones for next year. 

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BS RX8

MilesJ:

If I read the BoD minutes right the RX8 is no longer excluded from STX.  Looks like I'll need some 9" wide wheels and 265 'Stones for next year. 

Or you could try some 10.5" rims and 285s for use in STU.  If I recall comments from Mark Sipe correctly, the 285 fits the RX8 without any difficulty.  Seems like you have some fun choices to make...

Mike

Due to this jewel from people who don't know what an engine exhaust is, NO COMPETITIVE WRX WILL BE LEGAL IN STX or STU due to down-pipe interference with part of the turbo heatshield:

 TECH BULLETINS

1. Street Touring: Per the STAC, For the 2002-2007 Subaru WRX, the heat shield attached to the turbo is a turbo heat shield

and not part of the exhaust, and is therefore not subject to 14.10.D.

 

old 14.10.D.

 Exhaust manifolds and headers may be replaced with alternate

units which are emissions-legal. Relocation of the oxygen sensor

on the header is permitted. Alternate oxygen sensors, including

heated types, are permitted. This allowance does not

permit relocation of the catalytic converter (see 13.10.E). Exhaust

heat shields may be modified the minimum amount necessary

to accommodate allowed alternate exhaust components.

That's simply not true. Most competitive WRXs in STX have stock turbo heatshields, there are many downpipes that accommodate the stock shield.

Are you sure?  My car has the stock turo heatshield, but due to the downpipe, I had to trim a little of the shield over the downpipe since it's wider in diameter.  Clearly illegal per this bogus clarification.  I have a Cobb bellmouth downpipe with cat.  What fits other than stock?

msimanyi:

MilesJ:

If I read the BoD minutes right the RX8 is no longer excluded from STX.  Looks like I'll need some 9" wide wheels and 265 'Stones for next year. 

Or you could try some 10.5" rims and 285s for use in STU.  If I recall comments from Mark Sipe correctly, the 285 fits the RX8 without any difficulty.  Seems like you have some fun choices to make...

Mike

 

Unfortunately I could only get up to 220 rwhp on the Cobb Tuning Mustang dyno, quite a feat for an NA Renesis with no internals mods and not even easily obtained by high end racing teams running internal mods and MoTeC ecus etc.  Despite my final analysis that running too much spring rate was my major downfall particularly at HPT, I still remain sceptical it will be able to get it done in either class even if you can build the same custom parts as my own to achieve both the same output and the minimum weights as I did.  Moving back to concrete and having a more concrete-friendly compound tire could alter that view.

I sold everything off after swapping the car back to BS in it's entirety this year and am enjoying the R compound rush too much to ever go back there, at least not in an RX-8.  Just putting that idea to rest because everybody keeps asking me about it.

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

TeamRX8:

msimanyi:

MilesJ:

If I read the BoD minutes right the RX8 is no longer excluded from STX.  Looks like I'll need some 9" wide wheels and 265 'Stones for next year. 

Or you could try some 10.5" rims and 285s for use in STU.  If I recall comments from Mark Sipe correctly, the 285 fits the RX8 without any difficulty.  Seems like you have some fun choices to make...

Mike

 

Unfortunately I could only get up to 220 rwhp on the Cobb Tuning Mustang dyno, quite a feat for an NA Renesis with no internals mods and not even easily obtained by high end racing teams running internal mods and MoTeC ecus etc.  Despite my final analysis that running too much spring rate was my major downfall particularly at HPT, I still remain sceptical it will be able to get it done in either class even if you can build the same custom parts as my own to achieve both the same output and the minimum weights as I did.  Moving back to concrete and having a more concrete-friendly compound tire could alter that view.

I sold everything off after swapping the car back to BS in it's entirety this year and am enjoying the R compound rush too much to ever go back there, at least not in an RX-8.  Just putting that idea to rest because everybody keeps asking me about it.

 What did you end up getting the weight of the car down to in STU trim?

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89/189 STS/STX '89 Civic Si

low 2700# range without driver, but you won't get there with off the shelf parts, all my parts were hand made for minimum weight, I was also running a special cat converter from Europe that costs $1000 as a stand-alone part

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"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

Sebastian R.:

That's simply not true. Most competitive WRXs in STX have stock turbo heatshields, there are many downpipes that accommodate the stock shield.

 

Name ONE that does that, and has a cat in it.

I won't even make you name one that fits the stock shield and won't throw a CEL.

(remember, since the shield is now part of the turbo, you cant cut or bend it)

EVERY wrx or sti without their stock downpipes at nationals this year was illegal. I suppose it's good (or just convenient) that this was published after nats.

 

splash:

Sebastian R.:

That's simply not true. Most competitive WRXs in STX have stock turbo heatshields, there are many downpipes that accommodate the stock shield.

 

Name ONE that does that, and has a cat in it.

I won't even make you name one that fits the stock shield and won't throw a CEL.

(remember, since the shield is now part of the turbo, you cant cut or bend it)

EVERY wrx or sti without their stock downpipes at nationals this year was illegal. I suppose it's good (or just convenient) that this was published after nats.

 

Interesting that both this years and last years STU winning car (two different cars) did not have a turbo heat shield at all nor did any competitors care enough to even question it. 

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Jason McCall #47 STU
'00 M Roadster - XP (under construction)

STU has class and won't weeney protest to get the win.

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Bart Hockerman
2005 STI
#5 STU

2superblus:

STU has class and won't weeney protest to get the win.

Agreed.  I saw it both years but didn't care.  I should have driven better.   But with what happended in STS this year (a tiny shim) and with the way people are internet-dualing about just making minor changes to a silly heat shield, I just found it interesting.

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Jason McCall #47 STU
'00 M Roadster - XP (under construction)

I can kinda see when everyone runs a no hp spec car like the 89 civic, but when STU is diverse and it's not really a hp game but more of a tire / suspension game. Don't get me wrong I think the clarification is total BS and that Subaru itself doesn't even know what type of heat sheild to call it. I also think the clarification only restricts Subaru turbo vehicles and with that posted I think that is a dump truck full of BS. After all an EVO with the same mods as a Subaru will make more whp, too bad it's hasn't gotten the EVO a national win in STU yet.

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Bart Hockerman
2005 STI
#5 STU

splash:

Sebastian R.:

That's simply not true. Most competitive WRXs in STX have stock turbo heatshields, there are many downpipes that accommodate the stock shield.

 

Name ONE that does that, and has a cat in it.

I won't even make you name one that fits the stock shield and won't throw a CEL.

(remember, since the shield is now part of the turbo, you cant cut or bend it)

EVERY wrx or sti without their stock downpipes at nationals this year was illegal. I suppose it's good (or just convenient) that this was published after nats.

 

Oh crap! You are right, mine was modified but still there, as most STX cars. This looks like another clarifichange after all we need an allowance for sure.

I'll write. 

The bad part is, all it takes is ONE guy who is a position or two out of the trophies to bring the whole house down. I mean, if EVO folks REALLY wanted to dominate, they could remove all the subies in one swoop.

 

The truly sad part is, just like the emissions clarification, it won't slow the STX or STU Subies down. It will just make them spend more money to stay the same. I mean, think about it... What was the purpose of mentioning that by example if not to slow the Subies down? Sure, if running the stock shield truly meant running the stock DP then that would indeed do it, but that would be so incredibly short-sighted that I would then doubt the qualifications of the STAC in general. Like we wouldn't just make custom 2-cat flange-type DP's... I just think it is sad that someone felt this necessary in such an attempt. Like I said before, if they want the turbo cars the have to run stock DP's, just freakin say so, so we can stop hemmoraging money to stay legal.

McCall:

2superblus:

STU has class and won't weeney protest to get the win.

Agreed.  I saw it both years but didn't care.  I should have driven better.   But with what happended in STS this year (a tiny shim) and with the way people are internet-dualing about just making minor changes to a silly heat shield, I just found it interesting.

 

Are you really comparing internal engine mods to bending or cutting a heat shield? Hardly apples to apples. The shims had a direct affect on the operation of the motor unlike cutting a heatshield.

I agree with you guys though...  Maybe the rule should say something like.... "heat shields may be modified to accomodate allowed exhaust modifications but can serve no other purpose"....

Just make sure any reference to "exhaust" isnt in the sentence.

I really have no idea, just brain storming a bit.......

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I live my life one cone at a time........

No I am suggesting that STS is dominated by people that protest undercoating as an example on a car that weighs more than other cars of the same build.

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Bart Hockerman
2005 STI
#5 STU

splash:

What was the purpose of mentioning that by example if not to slow the Subies down?

Despite our best efforts to write Suby's out of existence, this was a response to a letter written for clarification.  We have formed a secret "Subaru" sub-committee though, to brainstorm some more unsolicited anti-Suby rules changes that will soon be forthcoming. 

In all seriousness, the clarification request was framed in a different context.  I agree the wording in the original rule can be confusing when applying to various specific conditions.  I think you'll find that the intent here is to clarify that heat shields that are attached to an exhaust component are allowed to be removed along with that exhaust component, and need not be modified and re-attached onto the allowed alternate exhaust component.  In other words, heat shields attached to an exhaust component are part of that component.  Other heat shields (such as turbo shields or shields that are body mounted) may not be removed, but may be modified the minimum necessary to fit an allowed component.

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Patrick Washburn
STU Evo - SOLD!
<----- 2009 - Regain the coveted Tri Pod Trophy for the Hiedi's

Whiplash_Motorsports:

Are you really comparing internal engine mods to bending or cutting a heat shield?

Abso-fricken-lutely.  It is apples to apples.  When you are determining if a car's modification meets the rules or doesn't meet the rules, an internal engine mod is the SAME as any other modification.  That little shim offered no performance advantage (kind of like removing a heat shield) yet it was correctly deemed as illegal.  To me that comparison holds true.  Again, it's weenie but if its a rule, its a rule and just because its inside the motor doesn't make is super special illegal.  I'd never throw paper on it as I think a good driver can overcome a vast majority of this ticky-tacky stuff anyway.

Now to your idea-  ""heat shields may be modified to accomodate allowed exhaust modifications but can serve no other purpose"  - Sounds logical to me.

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Jason McCall #47 STU
'00 M Roadster - XP (under construction)

2superblus:

No I am suggesting that STS is dominated by people that protest undercoating as an example on a car that weighs more than other cars of the same build.

I would say that dominated is entirely unfair. This makes 2 years in a row of no protests filed by STS competitors at Nationals.

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Brian Davis, 89 Civic Si, 158 STS