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Last Post 23 Mar 2016 08:17 PM by  cmt52663
New base MINI cooper what class??
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ron
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28 Oct 2013 02:03 PM
    Well are there any SAC members out there with some insight as to where it is going to go. 137hp 179 tq and about the same weight as the current car. Can't go in HS would be an underdog in DS so maybe GS. Probably would dominate G, what do ya think?? 
    btwyx
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    28 Oct 2013 03:11 PM

    Where ever it goes, I hope it doesn't drag the old MINI Coopers with it. There is precedent for putting different years in different classes.

    A 1.5l turbo, sounds similar to the current Cooper-S so DS doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

    carbonflyer2
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    28 Oct 2013 03:24 PM

    I would think G, similar to the Ford Fiesta ST that was just classed as G.

      

    Adam303
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    28 Oct 2013 07:32 PM
    I'd say probably G if that is where the Fiesta ST is going. It would get buried in D by the AWD stuff. Should be some interesting battles and a good mix of competitive cars in G-street next year. Got the bigger power house cars like the Focus ST/SRT-4 and the smaller stuff like the Fiesta ST and perhaps this new Mini, along with the Celica still in the mix.
    efe
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    29 Oct 2013 12:42 PM
    Agreed. The current base Cooper is competitive in GS, but would not be a top car. With an extra ~15 ponies, it might contend on most courses.
    ron
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    29 Oct 2013 01:39 PM
    The horsepower of almost 20 isn't that big a  deal its the 65 ft lbs of torque from 1400 all the way to the rev limiter that is the big question if it will be in g or d street.
    kyoo
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    04 Nov 2013 02:33 PM
    was thinking the same, that it would go to GS - and hopefully not bring the other Minis with it
    CSP21
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    26 Nov 2013 02:04 PM
    Ron sorry haven't been reading this forum much anymore. Hopefully there are some more numbers/details which we should have after launch here shortly. Unless something more compelling changes what they are likely to be, I see GS more likely than DS.
    ron
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    26 Nov 2013 08:07 PM
    Thanks Tom, that is the most logical choice, but that also means that it will probably be the car to have. Don't know what the electronic limited slip will do though. If it is anything like the coupe that I drove one time with it, it will probably stink.
    CSP21
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    26 Nov 2013 08:17 PM
    Yeah and we haven't probably seen the Focus ST to its potential and the new Fiesta ST as well and how they do with street tires versus the lighter Celica. Then factor in, I'm only one opinion on a committee. I think when we get those details missing (weight, LSD, etc) we'll know. We don't have to class the car until it is actually available.
    OasisTan
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    26 Nov 2013 11:35 PM

    Actually HP/TQ numbers are 132hp and 162tq.  I can't see it going anywhere other than GS or maybe HS.  Its almost 5 inches longer as well and wider too.  I bet it has that crap electronic diff as well.  One more thing that isn't clear is, will this new Mini also have the JCW suspension?  I know it has a Variable Damper Control(VDC) so they may no longer port install the JCW suspension components.  If not, I would lean towards HS unless it happens to have more camber than the old models

     

     

    OasisTan
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    26 Nov 2013 11:38 PM
    The non-S Mini weight is 2605 and the S weight is 2760. My S over the years has ranged from 2456 up to 2475 with little/no fuel in race trim.  I think the current HS Minis were 2375-2400ish if I remember. It seems the new Mini is not so much mini any longer on its new/larger platform.
    ron
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    27 Nov 2013 07:26 AM
    Well the overboost figures that I saw were 137hp and 179tq. I also read that the new car would be slightly lighter but the figures show otherwise. Although the have always showed around 2570 wt for the curb, full of fuel spare etc, so it looks maybe like they will be 40 lbs heavier? I think the wheel base is 3 inches longer and the majority of the rest is in the tip of the nose and center of the rear bumpers. Kinda ugly and odd place to put it, especialy for the cooper s front very ugly.
    kyoo
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    27 Nov 2013 08:11 AM

    as far as i understood it was to be about 60 lbs heavier in the base trim - the same weight as the R53 (02-06) MINI, they claimed. however, the 0-60 for the new Cooper is 1s** faster than the old one, at least by MINI's claim


    0-60 Times:
    - Cooper Auto: 7.3 seconds (down from 9.6 – with the same Automatic!)
    - Cooper Manual: 7.4 seconds (down from 8.4)
    - Cooper S Auto: 6.4 seconds (down from 7.8 – with the same Automatic!)
    - Cooper S Manual: 6.5 seconds (down from 6.6)


    http://www.motoringfile.com/2013/11...-new-mini/
    carbonflyer2
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    27 Nov 2013 12:14 PM
    Curb weight from the MINI USA specs is 2605 which is disappointing. Also the track is 1.7in wider and second gear tops out at a little over 70mph! Electronic diff only, I had this on my 2011, it helped sometimes but there were times that it was a liability also. 0-60 is only 1 second faster for the manual transmission.
    btwyx
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    27 Nov 2013 03:25 PM
    Posted By ron williams on 27 Nov 2013 07:26 AM
    I think the wheel base is 3 inches longer and the majority of the rest is in the tip of the nose and center of the rear bumpers.

    The wheelbase is 1 inch longer than previous.

    cmt52663
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    09 Jun 2014 09:27 AM
    Is anyone aware that this new B38 based Mini is being campaigned? Has anyone taken the plunge into GS with this car I wonder?

    I'm considering the move from HS (2013 base Mini) to a 2014 and I seek some experience which might warn me away from hidden pitfalls.

    Thanks,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    11 Jun 2014 04:01 AM
    Well I reckon I'll be the guinea pig for the new B38 powered base Mini. I'll be finishing the NER season in one, with a delivery date around the end of July. I rather doubt it will be competitive in a National, but we shall see - it'll certainly put a grin on my face up at Devens and that is sufficient.

    The Sport Suspension will be the same as the R56, but the DTC option is now built in. No longer a separate order item, the e-diff remains active with DSC turned off. The car apparently has a 65 mph 2nd gear, which hopefully means that 15x7 rolling stock will work.

    Less power and less tire than the Focus - but about 600 lbs less weight too.

    Should be entertaining anyway.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    11 Jun 2014 04:28 AM
    Hmm. 15x7 would be nice, but not legal. 15x6.5 would be a bit of a worry, so 16x7 is as good as it gets I reckon.
    cmt52663
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    24 Jun 2014 01:05 PM
    Well Koni has no committed plan for yellows for the base Cooper F56, and I hear NM might be considering a bar - but generally the aftermarket is in wait and see mode.

    I'm still amused, as in bloody pointless bench-racing theory this little sleeper has more torque under the curve from 2-5.5k rpm than the R53, and that was not a GS car.

    But the BS stops when the flag drops.

    The inaugural will be when NER runs for the Jeff Gordon trophy up on that postage stamp lot in NHMS, where the 'Vette's stay in 1st and the low rpm dig will rule. Should be a good indicator.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    madame_toussleau
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    25 Jun 2014 08:54 AM

    I must be missing something - When I read the car classes in the solo rule book on line I see this is H Street:

       Clubman (non-S, non-JCW) (2008-14)

       Cooper (non-S, non-JCW) (2002-14)

       Cooper Coupe (non-S, non-JCW) (2012-14)

       Cooper Roadster (non-S, non-JCW) (2012-14) 

    And nothing in GS for mini's that I can find, so what makes this car a G Street car this year?

    CSP21
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    25 Jun 2014 09:01 AM
    Cars released after the Rulebook draft aren't going to be in there. You'd have to look at Fastrack releases.

    http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod...-april.pdf
    madame_toussleau
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    25 Jun 2014 09:29 AM
    Posted By Tom Reynolds on 25 Jun 2014 09:01 AM
    Cars released after the Rulebook draft aren't going to be in there. You'd have to look at Fastrack releases.

    http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/14-fastrack-april.pdf

     thank you - now I'll go test drive one!

    Barb Seeger - New England Region

    cmt52663
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    26 Jun 2014 05:19 PM
    Barb! That is NOT what I meant when I posted up "the BS stops when the flag drops"... :-)
    madame_toussleau
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    26 Jun 2014 10:05 PM
    Posted By cmt52663 on 26 Jun 2014 05:19 PM
    Barb! That is NOT what I meant when I posted up "the BS stops when the flag drops"... :-)

    LOL  but really,  I was about to buy a focus ST when you mentioned this GStreet Mini idea... I'm having a hard time deciding between the 2 now.

     

    -Barb Seeger - New England Region  - B Street 88 Corvette

    cmt52663
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    31 Jul 2014 11:23 AM
    It appears that there are two alternate part numbers for the steering knuckle (I call it a hub carrier, but what do I know) which offer variation in camber for the otherwise non-adjustable front axle. The old "pull the plastic pin and pray" approach to maximizing camber which offered -.6 to -.8 on the R56 models is now history.

    I've offered a bottle of scotch to the first staff member at my dear dealer who can interpret the specifications for these parts, but early indications are that they are +/- something from the default number.

    This may be the F56 equivalent of a "crash bolt" and if they can produce -1 degree of negative camber then I'll be having them in a heartbeat.

    The turbo-triple is better than it looks on paper, and 2nd gear goes on for bloody ever.

    Not battle tested yet though, so the jury is still out.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    11 Aug 2014 08:23 AM
    OK, more data. With the alternate OEM knuckles (which serve the same purpose as crash bolts) the F56 Cooper gets -1 degree of camber. Weighed at the tech shed @ NHMS it's 2,550 lbs. Battle tested it eked out .5 sec of a lead against the Fiesta ST and the Impreza 2.5 RS on a postage stamp course over the RAL weekend.

    Devens next Sunday, which will be the real test.

    So far so good.

    Charlie
    gareno
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    11 Aug 2014 07:35 PM
    Posted By cmt52663 on 11 Aug 2014 08:23 AM
    OK, more data. With the alternate OEM knuckles (which serve the same purpose as crash bolts) the F56 Cooper gets -1 degree of camber. Weighed at the tech shed @ NHMS it's 2,550 lbs. Battle tested it eked out .5 sec of a lead against the Fiesta ST and the Impreza 2.5 RS on a postage stamp course over the RAL weekend.

    Devens next Sunday, which will be the real test.

    So far so good.

    Charlie

    Wow, that's almost 200lbs heavier than the previous cars, and only .1-.2 degrees more camber.


    cmt52663
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    12 Aug 2014 08:22 AM
    Posted By gareno on 11 Aug 2014 07:35 PM
    Posted By cmt52663 on 11 Aug 2014 08:23 AM
    OK, more data. With the alternate OEM knuckles (which serve the same purpose as crash bolts) the F56 Cooper gets -1 degree of camber. Weighed at the tech shed @ NHMS it's 2,550 lbs. Battle tested it eked out .5 sec of a lead against the Fiesta ST and the Impreza 2.5 RS on a postage stamp course over the RAL weekend.

    Devens next Sunday, which will be the real test.

    So far so good.

    Charlie

    Wow, that's almost 200lbs heavier than the previous cars, and only .1-.2 degrees more camber.


    Actually it is 140 lbs heavier (my R56 was 2410 at the Mid Atlantic tour last year), and I agree on the camber (although I could only get -.6 from my R56).

     However the torque curve is quite similar to the R53 STX car, and it is that which prompted me to conduct this experiment.

     It will take a better driver than me to prove the point however.

    Cheers,

    Charlie


    gareno
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    12 Aug 2014 09:05 PM

    I've seen the previous gen weigh as little as 2350. Mine weighs 2420 with a 20lb trailer hitch on it. Tim Carrite's weighs in the the 2350 range.  We compared weights last year in Blytheville on the same scales. His weighs substantially less than mine, and I can only account for 20lbs for my hitch.

    btwyx
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    14 Aug 2014 02:08 AM

    Our 07 weighed 2427 and the 2013 2400lb. (The 2013 had 15% of fuel in, about 14lbs, the 07 similar.) With zero fuel and lighter wheels (like 15x5.5, instead of 16x7) you could maybe lose 25-30lb. The cars could lose a couple of options, but I don't know where 20lb would come from.

    gareno
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    15 Aug 2014 04:24 PM

    Maybe Tim and I can get our cars on the scales at Nationals sometime...just to make sure we didn't have a scale malfunction in Blytheville.  I've had my car on scales several times, and each time its been within a pound or two of 2420, although now I'm on 15x6.5" tires and wheels, so I might be about 10lbs lighter now, but so should he...

    carbonflyer2
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    17 Aug 2014 01:40 PM
    My 11 weighed 2373 with the stock 16" wheels when I weighed it at the 12 nationals running in RTF. With the race wheels and the windshield wiper fluid drained it was probably right at 2350. I ordered it with zero options except for sport seats.

    cmt52663
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    22 Aug 2014 07:16 AM
    With two NER points events in the books, the Gen 3 car appears to be a capable G Street entry.

    http://www.ner.org/solo/2014-season-results

    Not a class killer by any means, but a fun and tossable car with no inside wheelspin issues or other bad habits.

    The sport suspension controls roll nicely, the overall balance is comparable to the R56, and eventually as the aftermarket catches up I'd add the Koni Yellows and a rear bar.

    http://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ost93.html

    But no regrets, and plenty of regional fun is clearly in the near future.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    ron
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    24 Aug 2014 09:18 PM
    You can always put plenty of talent in the seat, its only a question away.  What class are you running g street? 
    cmt52663
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    27 Aug 2014 10:11 AM
    Posted By coneracer on 24 Aug 2014 09:18 PM
    You can always put plenty of talent in the seat, its only a question away.  What class are you running g street? 

    Yes.
    cmt52663
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    11 Sep 2014 10:47 AM
    Lincoln next year I hope - family health issues precluded this year I am sorry to say. Next Devens race on Sunday and if my head is on straight that should go well (and be fun in any case).

    Not a soul was tempted to take this path based on the G Street attendance in Lincoln this year, which does not entirely surprise me.
    cmt52663
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    27 Oct 2014 07:03 AM
    So yesterday I did have talent in the seat... Brian Kuehl drove the 3rd gen B38 equipped G Street car (bone stock) to 11th PAX against the NER hot-shoes.

    The car does have the alternate steering knuckles installed, returning -1 degree of negative camber out front.

    No class-killer, but capable.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    kyoo
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    30 Oct 2014 12:57 PM
    IDK if this was intentional or not but in the rulebooks there are no MINIs in GS - 2002-2014 (2014 is the new Mini) are all listed under HS.

    http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod...0links.pdf
    WrongWheelDrive
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    31 Oct 2014 09:28 AM
    Posted By kyoo on 30 Oct 2014 12:57 PM

    IDK if this was intentional or not but in the rulebooks there are no MINIs in GS - 2002-2014 (2014 is the new Mini) are all listed under HS.

    http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod...0links.pdf


    Check the april fast track, that was fixed.

    I think the new mini is a pretty good fit for GS.
    cmt52663
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    06 May 2015 12:41 PM
    So it seems - the 2015 season looks promising. http://www.ner.org/wp-content/uploa...v3_pax.htm
    OZMDD
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    07 May 2015 10:11 AM
    Can you provide a little context? I see you placed well in class and pax, but maybe a bit about your your competition and conditions/heat order would shed more light. Thanks, and congrats.
    madame_toussleau
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    08 May 2015 07:35 AM

    Posted By OZMDD on 07 May 2015 10:11 AM
    Can you provide a little context? I see you placed well in class and pax, but maybe a bit about your your competition and conditions/heat order would shed more light. Thanks, and congrats.

    I can, as the 1st GS loser behind Charlie: Dry day, fast course, pretty equal between heats. The region had a lot of national level drivers getting prepped for the Jersey tour, and you have to look past Charlies' name in that PAX list to see some notable names.

    Barb Seeger - 11 GS - 2014 Focus ST
    madame_toussleau
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    08 May 2015 07:36 AM
    . dup post -sorry
    cmt52663
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    25 May 2015 06:31 AM
    New York and New Jersey G Street drivers! Come to Devens in June and defend the honor of the Focus against this 3 cylinder upstart!

    Please come and join us for the National Tour Event June 12th through the 14th - we promise a good course, hospitality, and needless to say it never rains!

    Thanks very much,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    09 Jun 2015 07:32 PM

    Posted By cmt52663 on 25 May 2015 06:31 AM
    New York and New Jersey G Street drivers! Come to Devens in June and defend the honor of the Focus against this 3 cylinder upstart!

    Please come and join us for the National Tour Event June 12th through the 14th - we promise a good course, hospitality, and needless to say it never rains!

    Thanks very much,

    Charlie


    OK, I fibbed - looks like Saturday might be a bit damp. But I am most grateful to see non NER entrants swell the class a bit, and particularly a shout out to Nick Babin. I should have included PA specifically in my invitation - for shame!

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    14 Jun 2015 08:04 PM
    Thanks to all my G Street competitors, both NER regulars and honored guests from down south.

    When the dust had settled, the Focus ST took top honors in Matt Jones' capable hands - but not by as much as I expected.

    So running a 134 hp 3 cylinder Mini against the mighty Ford is eccentric, but not outright daft.

    I expect that if Matt and I swapped cars he'd still beat me.

    Anyway, it's a data point...

    Results here of course: http://sololive.scca.com/DV/GS.html

    And NO it didn't rain.

    Cheers,

    Charlie
    cmt52663
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    04 Oct 2015 10:38 AM
    Hmmm.... Next year I reckon it'll be time to try the B38 at Lincoln. Had to cancel this year's registration due to work. Nice to see Matt do so well, keeping Mark focused on both days. (please excuse the pun).

    Cheers,

    Charlie
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    23 Mar 2016 08:17 PM
    Thanks to Jack Burns, Trevor Renson, GH Sharp, and the entire G Street field at Dixie Nationals.

    That was a hoot, and a great start to the season.

    Kind regards,

    Charlie
    (that goddam little mini)


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