Here is the parts page:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...DRIVESHAFT

Note the complete assemblies #3 and #4 are discontinued. Partial assemblies #1 and #2 only include those items with the drop down tails in the diagram. That means NO dampers #24 and #25. I confirmed this as my new Honda Axles arrived today at the dealer and there were no dampers. We then called direct to a parts analyst at American Honda parts. He explained the tails in the diagrams and that the available shafts do not include the dampers. Nor are the 24/25 dampers available separately. The parts analyst went out into the warehouse and examined a Honda remanufactured complete assembly and it does not have the dampers.

So, there is no source for the dampers in the Honda parts system. They might be sitting in a dusty local dealers inventory, but they aren't in the computer and you can't order them.

New SCCA Solo Rule 14.11 reads:

14.11 OUT OF PRODUCTION CARS
Where a car is out of production and the manufacturer is either out of
business, stocks no parts or no longer has a required part, a part of any
origin but as similar as possible to the original may be substituted. The
entrant must be prepared to show documentary evidence that one of
the three circumstances above applies and that the substituted part is
as similar as possible under the circumstances. Substitute parts which
provide improvements in performance (e.g. superior gearing, lighter
weight, better camshaft profi le, etc.) are not permitted under this allowance.

First issue:

How do I show documentary evidence that Honda now longer has a required part? You can call any honda parts department and check the numbers for availablity. I can print out the parts diagram and sheet I linked to. Neither the dealer nor the parts analyst would provide anything in writing.

Second issue:

What does 14.11 really mean in the last part of the language? Specifically, "lighter weight"? How do you define such a thing? Clearly the reason for not including the damper is not performance, but it still have some weight and it is a rotating part. If OE remanufactured axles are being used (and I know they are), those are ground down during the reman process and are lighter by some unknown amount.

I hope someone with some experience can chime in on this...

Craig

And thus starts Axlegate, 2010. 

Sounds like a business opportunity to provide an aftermarket damper for someone. Make it slightly heavier than stock and it should pass a protest.

What ever Honda says should be on the car is legal. Parts change. Is Honda saying that the service axle without the damper is the replacement part for the old one with a damper? If so you're good to go. The proper OEM part for any car is, by definition, determined by the manufacturer.

I hadn't thought of the reman part as qualifying as a superceding part. I don't know on that. Some have mentioned language that says to transfer the old damper onto the new reman'd axle. That language occasionally occurs on aftermarket reman'd axle asemblies. The parts analyst said that language does not appear on the Honda part.

I would think the more appropriate path is 14.11, but we don't want to be a test case, so we're trying to source an axle. In the last two weeks we've struck out on the West Coast (with multiple wholesalers scrounging supplier lists). So, I'm going to call Florida Monday morning and explore just how much 2-3 day shipping options FL to SoCal are going to set me back. :( I've got two offers locally to borrow axles, but I'd really rather "solve" the problem without that. Still, gotta love that aspect of our sport that competitors not able to go to Lincoln are willing to cannibalize their cars to help out friends.

I don't think anybody would... But I don't want to take an issue involving rotating weight to a PC. And Will Kalman is driving my car, he's one of the most talented FWD guys around, so I'm sure the car will be in the hunt. If it was just Stacey and I battling for last trophy spots the car would be washed, waxed, and loaded in the trailer by now. [;)]

The confusion lies in what Honda "says" should go on the car. Remember, these cars are now 20 years old and Honda has begun to discontinue many parts as they sell out of current stock.

I have original hard copy parts books for the cars. "In the beginning", Honda offered three ways to buy the axles. One was a complete "driveshaft assembly", which included the dampers. The second was a partial assembly they call a "driveshaft set", which included everything except the dampers. The third was all of the individual pieces of the axles, including the dampers.

Fast forward to today and the parts diagrams still show all of these possibilities, but the part number listings show only the partial assembly as available, and some of the individual parts. The dampers are still listed but are marked "discontinued", and the complete axles are not even in the listings anymore.

A further side wrinkle is that the base model (STD) never had a damper so the partial assembly was the actual full part for that car.

So you can either read this as "the desired complete part is no longer sold by Honda" and you go to 14.11 for relief, which allows alternate sourcing through the aftermarket so long as their is no performance advantage (including weight). Or you read it as Honda only supplies axles w/o dampers and has "substituted" the partial set for the full assembly. It is, for sure, not a traditional supercede 'cuz that's not the way Honda does those.

--Andy

PS: I seriously doubt that any of this will have any impact whatsoever on anything that happens in Lincoln, other than maybe some beer talk.

Best idea I've seen on this forum in years.

Haha finally a sensible statement!

I like all three of those activities. [;)]

--Andy

...and the pre-Nationals psyche-outs begin...

Dave and I have our Team Snot Rocket driving suits all picked out:

I don't know about Kotzian, but there's no way Fessler will be able to focus with us parading around paddock wearing this, high top driving shoes and helmets.