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Last Post 27 Jun 2006 06:16 PM by  Patrick Washburn
Welcome to the Milwaukee/Chicago Solo Forum
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christoc
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06 Jun 2006 02:29 PM
    Welcome to the newly created Milwaukee/Chicago Solo Forum!
    Patrick Washburn
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    06 Jun 2006 06:22 PM

    Cool!

    While it's nice to have local or regional forums, with my browsing style, it's kinda getting clunky at least for me. I browse by just hitting the "View Latest Posts" link. Works great and I enjoy it a lot. There's getting to be lots of local "clutter" though. (No offense...I know it's not clutter to you all, but when to be there for course setup in Cleveland doesn't really interest me.) :)

    I like having a Milwaukee/ Chicago forum, but I don't want to contribute with my own clutter at the same time. Is there a way I can filter what forums I see when I click on Latest Posts??? Maybe segregate out the local forums? If not, maybe something to consider.

    No biggy either way, I can just look around them if that can't be done ...thanks for all the hard work and an excellent place to visit!!

    christoc
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    06 Jun 2006 06:30 PM
    Patrick Washburn wrote:

    I like having a Milwaukee/ Chicago forum, but I don't want to contribute with my own clutter at the same time. Is there a way I can filter what forums I see when I click on Latest Posts??? Maybe segregate out the local forums? If not, maybe something to consider.

    There's a new software release coming in the next couple of weeks, I believe it will have better filtering capabilities. If not I'll work on setting up some filtering for people to use.

    C

    2superblus
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    07 Jun 2006 11:41 AM

    Thank you for the new home:)

    Gefiltefish
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    07 Jun 2006 03:53 PM

    Thanks for setting this up Chris!

    -Sam Karp, Milwaukee Region Solo Chairman, Milwaukee Tour Chairman

    rtp.rick
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    07 Jun 2006 06:01 PM

    I've gotta agree with Pat Washburn. This was an unnecessary and undesireable item for any group that already has an active forum. To check on what's going on locally, it's best to have ONE source, not a bunch. This one just adds to the mix and I can't see that there's any good purpose.

    I suppose for those Regions (groups) that don't already have a forum going, this may be helpful, but for an area like Chicago/Milwaukee, it just adds too many places to go AND clutters up this forum. I'm not sure who added it and sure can't understand why Mr. Karp would support it. What does one do now, post in two places? What a waste of time!! I'm sure that those folks in San Francisco could care less that the illconceived event in Rantoul has waived its late fee. It seems to me that this Forum should be for National issues, not local.

    All IMHO, of course.

    Thanks for the great NATIONAL source,
    Rick Ruth

    Gefiltefish
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    07 Jun 2006 10:51 PM
    rtprick wrote:

    ....and I can't see that there's any good purpose.

    ...and sure can't understand why Mr. Karp would support it.

    Rick-this was discussed with the current "leaders" of the Milwaukee and Chicago SCCA solo community. Essentially Pat Montelo and I thought this would be a better place than the chicagoautox forum to gain more recognition for our regions. With Milwaukee Region hosting a Tour and Chicago Region hosting a Cen-Div, we believe this forum would be viewed by out-of-area people that are not aware of the chicagoautox group. Your comments on National source and what not is exactly why *I* wanted this forum. Plus, new people local to Milwaukee and Chicago may find this easier than chicagoautox (I would give you an example, but of course, yahoo groups is down right now!).

    Pat and I also like the UBB format better than the Yahoo format as we have the ability to sticky important topics like info on the Street Tire classes, event guidlines, policy changes, etc.

    I don't think you need to be worried about missing out on important stuff. I intend to post all important information on both Yahoo Groups and SCCAForums.

    Alex Tziortzis
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    08 Jun 2006 12:26 AM

    As I replied in private email, if you look at the yahoogroups subscription to chicagoautox, over 50% of the members get their "forum" information via email. They get individual emails, and respond via individual email.

    I agree with Rick, there is no technical reason to use this site. In fact, when I come to sccaforums I only click on "latest posts" and thats it.

    Anyway, I would be happy to rename chicagoautox to ChiMilwautox if thats what is holding you back.

    Alex

    Patrick Washburn
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    08 Jun 2006 08:56 AM
    rtprick wrote:
    I've gotta agree with Pat Washburn. This was an unnecessary and undesireable item for any group that already has an active forum.

    Rick, that's not what I said. I said that while I like the new forum, I do not like adding to the local clutter on a National Forum like this. I don't like wading through the "Are you going to be there Sunday" posts, therefore I don't like adding to that. (I consider this a National, not a local forum.)

    Personally, the Milwaukee Yahoo group does nothing for me. It's clunky and rarely used. My tiny little club in Minnesota has 20 times more volume than the entire Milwaukee area. I think it's because their forum is easy to use, reliable, and formatted well. We have events in Milwaukee and I wait for discussion to come afterwards, but I just get crickets. It's like, doesn't anyone talk to each other around here? Kind of a cold feeling. There's a real community feeling in the Minnesota club that I think is nice.

    If you get your mail via private e-mail Like Alex, than maybe you don't want to increase traffic...I wouldn't either, I get enough as it is. I tend to browse with the "latest post" thing.

    I guess if you want the main function of this to be just announcements and the occasional short discussion, than Yahoo will do the job. If you want to encourage lots of discussions about different topics, have a For Sale place, and stuff like that, than this kind of forum is better. The best solution IMO, would be to set up a Chi/Mil forum on it's own so we could have our own forum categories and stuff. Example is www.mnautox.com.

    We will all never agree on this, so in the end I'm good with whatever.

    rtp.rick
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    08 Jun 2006 10:29 AM

    The "agreement" part was that it adds to the clutter. The Chicago/Milwaukee Yahoo Groups works just great. Again, more than what it offers is "clutter." If one has nothing else to do but sit on these forums, I guess more is better. It can become a way of life, everyday.

    Now, as Sam Karp suggests, we'll be reading the same stuff in both places. Oh, joy!! Wouldn't that be considered clutter? Seems as if it's all counter productive to me.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    2superblus
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    08 Jun 2006 10:49 AM

    I see only benefits to having this section in a national forum, there is no downside to allowing people from other regions an easy way to contact us. The yahoo goup is good for the shootout that is going on in there now, but that is somthing for the locals. We are trying to promote our region and would like to draw more people and have a larger presense nationally.

    For example the National Tour event will draw a great deal of people and some have never been to Milwaukee, where would they find a place to contact us? They would probably post in a general section and hope that someone from our region might see it. Here they have a better chance of getting a answer to whatever question they might have for us.

    I see no downside to being easy to find.

    Bart Hockerman

    christoc
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    08 Jun 2006 10:53 AM

    This software actually allows email functionality. Allowing you to get emails from a forum, and even respond to those emails and have them post to the forum, so it can work just like Yahoo Groups in that respect. We don't currently have the license for that yet, but I'm working on getting a legitimate copy of that license if I can work that agreement out. Otherwise it would run about $15k for the licenses.

    As I stated, I'll definitely put filtering into the latest posts as a high priority software modification to work on.

    Gefiltefish
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    08 Jun 2006 12:49 PM
    rtprick wrote:

    Now, as Sam Karp suggests, we'll be reading the same stuff in both places. Oh, joy!! Wouldn't that be considered clutter? Seems as if it's all counter productive to me.

    Rick-its a free country! You don't have to read this forum if you don't want. Especially when I have stated that I will post all important information on both here and the Yahoo site. Take your pick. Wait, what am I talking about, you're moving to St Louis anyway!

    Its only counter productive to who has to spend the time posting on both forums. I have no problem doing a control-A, control-C, control-V. I'm overpaid and underworked!

    As Bart said, I see no downside to this forum. The Chicago Region Solo Chair and Vice Chair wanted it. I wanted it. In the end, we are the ones that make the decision. Thats why we get paid the big bucks.

    Just move already won't you! And take Hillman with you! J/K, I love you both and will miss you severely.

    Mugenlude
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    08 Jun 2006 01:12 PM
    Personally, I think this forum will help the group communicate easier. With the yahoo groups you don't get all of the replies together with the original post, it might be 20 posts before the one you are reading.

    It's up to the users if they want to use this forum or yahoo groups, I think most people will move here. If Chris can get the licensing to be able to reply to messages via mail, then this forum can provide the best of both worlds (forum and email replies).

    Users can subscribe to this forum and receive emails of all the new posts at this point, however, you need to access the site to post replies or start a new thread. Once you're logged in go to this link (http://sccaforums.com/forums/ForumS...ions.aspx) you can select this forum and you can have all of the posts emailed to you.

    And again, thanks for all the help Chris.
    Bryan S
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    08 Jun 2006 01:36 PM

    This location for our forums (St. Louis) has worked out really well. It's helped connect many of the programs. Before, when much of our internet exchange was was via solo2.org there was very little participation from the other programs. Now I think there is a bit more from rally and road racing. That said, solists seem to spend waaayy more time on the internet. This has become a good vehicle for many people to inquire about our activities.

    Personaly I like being able to see how other regions do things. Having forums for other regions on the same site allows this. It helps connect national topics with the local topics. That may help more people decide to participate at a national level. That's a good thing right?

    rtp.rick
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    08 Jun 2006 01:47 PM

    Well guys, be careful what you wish for. I also don't know of a way I can avoid posts here. When I ask for what I haven't read, I get it all, until I read it. As was mentioned just clutter. I don't think the "delete" button has been installed. :-)

    BTW, if I wanted info on Milwaukee Region or its Tour, I would think, maybe this is irrational, that I'd go to Milwaukee's excellent Solo website. My guess would be that there would be more info there than here. I've always gone to other Region's sites when I've wanted to know how they do things. I can do that on an as needed basis.

    Sorry to disagree with you guys, but, oh well!!

    H's & K's,
    Rick

    Mugenlude
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    08 Jun 2006 02:17 PM
    rtprick wrote:

    The "agreement" part was that it adds to the clutter. The Chicago/Milwaukee Yahoo Groups works just great. Again, more than what it offers is "clutter." If one has nothing else to do but sit on these forums, I guess more is better. It can become a way of life, everyday.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    I don't think the yahoo groups works that well, I think that is where I disagree with you. I would like to see everyone stop using the yahoo group and move to this forum. That would stop "clutter", but I can't force people to come here. It's up to the users what they want use, obviously a group of us believe that this is a better alternative.

    I was going to place a post on the yahoo board letting everyone know that the forum exists. If everyone decides to say there, we can close this forum down... I don't think that will happen.

    edlocke
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    08 Jun 2006 04:09 PM
    Gefiltefish wrote:

    The Chicago Region Solo Chair and Vice Chair wanted it.



    [^o)]
    Just to be clear, my response was "I don't have an opinion on this..." Not as strong an endorsement as you made it sound!

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that it was not something I rigorously pursued!

    Ed "The Vice" Locke
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    08 Jun 2006 04:23 PM
    I would much rather visit a forum like this then the Yahoo groups.

    Thanks!

    wi_whoami
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    08 Jun 2006 04:24 PM
    There is also the ability to get a RSS feed.
    tuskenraider
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    08 Jun 2006 04:40 PM
    +1 to move here.
    Gefiltefish
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    08 Jun 2006 05:10 PM

    edlocke wrote:
    Just to be clear, my response was "I don't have an opinion on this..." Not as strong an endorsement as you made it sound!

    I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that it was not something I rigorously pursued!

    Ed "The Vice" Locke

    Ed, sorry, I got your reply mixed with Greg. To my knowledge, Greg was in full support of it. I still get you two guys mixed up all of the time!

    edlocke
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    08 Jun 2006 05:20 PM
    Gefiltefish wrote:

    Ed, sorry, I got your reply mixed with Greg. To my knowledge, Greg was in full support of it. I still get you two guys mixed up all of the time!


    I understand. I am the taller, better looking, slower one.
    [:D]

    BTW, see how well I adapt? I already have my avatar and sig working. I have propelled myself into the 1990's today![Y]
    gregmeier
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    08 Jun 2006 05:38 PM
    Taller...given.

    Better looking...I'm not going there.

    Slower..typically, you're a bit slower than I am and I hope the deficit grows ;-).

    Yes, I was in full support of this additional way to communicate in a more open forum than the Yahoo Groups. I think the yahoo groups is useful but limited and there are advantages to using this type of forum.

    Will it be ideal? Who the hell knows. If it becomes cumbersome I'm sure Sam, Jason and Chris will handle that as it comes...

    aseipos
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    08 Jun 2006 08:21 PM
    Have to agree with those who say this forum is redundant of our longstanding yahoo group. Maybe avatars and RSS make it preferable for some, but not to me.

    Andy Seipos
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    pmontelo
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    09 Jun 2006 12:36 AM

    Ed, let me just say that you’re taking a good political stance going into Monday's CR meeting!

    By the way, you have my permission to blame me for this decision since I won’t be at the meeting. I'll be away on business next week, so it will take a while for me to get back to all of the hate mail in my inbox. ;)

    History:

    When Jason and Sam asked a few of us via email if we wanted to be included in the name of this new forum, I thought it would be better to be included in the forum rather than excluded. My reasoning was simple: inclusion is good, exclusion is bad. Both regions are very closely related and we want to keep the lines of communication flowing regardless of where they occur. But I still question their ability to alphabetize. :)

    Since Jason and Sam said they had already voted to create this new forum at the Milwaukee meeting, I decided not to discourage them by pointing out all of the little potential problems with the idea, i.e. like confusion over which forum would be the “official” forum. Several other people who were copied on the original and subsequent emails discussing this idea quickly jumped in to point out what they perceived as potential flaws after my initial response to Jason. David was included, so rest assured that they got an earful.

    I suggested that Jason and Sam simply post a message on chicagoautox to make their announcement and then let people decide on their own which forum they prefer. I also warned them that more people would bitch and moan if they decided to go ahead, which they apparently did.

    I think time will tell which forum people prefer by which site they end up using. I also think that an “open market” method of deciding which is preferable better serves the community than an autocratic decision. Yes, I realize that may mean, if you’ve got something important to say, you may want to post it in both places to make sure everyone sees it.

    Full disclosure:

    I personally prefer a web interface because I can get to the information from any computer that I'm on and I don't have to maintain a copy locally. I already receive way too much email to keep up, and I don’t need some mailing list spamming me with information that I may never read. I realize that others have perfectly sound reasons for desiring email delivery, but it’s not my preference by a long shot. I use the web interface on yahoo, which I think sucks, but it’s better than email for me.

    I prefer vBulletin over this software, but in general, this is the type of software that I find has the features that provide a more compelling internet community than yahoogroups. I can even edit my posts to fix the typos and gramatical errors that I always find just after I hit the send button. I realize that others prefer the yahoo groups format for their own perfectly valid reasons.

    That’s all from Memphis for this evening. See many of you on Sunday.

    Pat

    Patrick Washburn
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    09 Jun 2006 10:19 AM

    This really will be just like the Yahoo thing, only easier to use and more reliable,. It's still a single category amid a wash of other catergories that don't relate to anything local.

    For my 2 cents, I would ultimately like to see a Discussion Group inside the Miwaukee SCCA website, just like we have at the Minnesota Autosports Club. I don't care about projecting our local region to a National audience, as someone else suggested. That's not what it's for. It's for bringing the local group of people together. Shoot the bull, have some fun, get to know new people, talk about the course, get a sense of community,... This is important IMHO to a member driven club.

    We (The Minnesota Autosports Club) have snagged and retained more new members through effective use of our discussion group. *Members that are now running things*. Maybe that's not important to everyone, but it will be when the core burns out and you searching for new blood to run things. (Minnesota Autosports Club almost died because of this a few years back.)

    Of course, I am not able or willing to do all the hard work that's needed to setup, host, and maintain such a group, so I say it as a light suggestion. If I could, I would.

    Mugenlude
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    09 Jun 2006 10:44 AM
    aseipos wrote:
    Have to agree with those who say this forum is redundant of our longstanding yahoo group. Maybe avatars and RSS make it preferable for some, but not to me.

    Andy Seipos
    #597 Street Tire

    Well, if the users like this forum I would like to see it replace the yahoo group. That is up to the users though.
    Mugenlude
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    09 Jun 2006 10:59 AM
    pmontelo wrote:

    I decided not to discourage them by pointing out all of the little potential problems with the idea, i.e. like confusion over which forum would be the “official” forum. Several other people who were copied on the original and subsequent emails discussing this idea quickly jumped in to point out what they perceived as potential flaws after my initial response to Jason. David was included, so rest assured that they got an earful.

    I knew that there would be people who didn't like the idea, however, I think there are lots of other people who like the idea.

    pmontelo wrote:
    I suggested that Jason and Sam simply post a message on chicagoautox to make their announcement and then let people decide on their own which forum they prefer. I also warned them that more people would bitch and moan if they decided to go ahead, which they apparently did.
    And this is the plan. I see that the email I sent to the yahoo group about the forum at 2:30pm finally got into my inbox at 12:03am, so we'll see.

    Mugenlude
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    09 Jun 2006 11:01 AM
    Patrick Washburn wrote:

    It's for bringing the local group of people together. Shoot the bull, have some fun, get to know new people, talk about the course, get a sense of community,... This is important IMHO to a member driven club.

    This is what I'm hoping will happen here....
    JPJ
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    09 Jun 2006 11:33 AM
    Oh no, not change! :)
    ncwlau
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    09 Jun 2006 05:12 PM
    I think I like this format better than the yahoo groups. This will probably be something of discussion for Monday night's meeting.

    I think this could encourage more local people to participate in online discussion, not sure how though.
    Zauskycop
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    09 Jun 2006 05:48 PM
    JPJ wrote:
    Oh no, not change! :)


    Hey JP, nice Avatar. How come you don't have one from one of your fast runs at Peru....oh wait...nvm [:P]
    JPJ
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    10 Jun 2006 10:03 PM

    Zauskycop wrote:
    JPJ wrote:
    Oh no, not change! :)


    Hey JP, nice Avatar. How come you don't have one from one of your fast runs at Peru....oh wait...nvm [:P]

    I love you too TracEy

    Achilles381
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    25 Jun 2006 11:19 PM

    Probably due to the large number of other car forums I browse, but I prefer the bulletin board format over the yahoo groups format.

    It wouldn't be redundant if everyone switched over. Considering that is unlikely, I will check both.

    aseipos
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    26 Jun 2006 09:12 PM
    Perhaps the fact the several hundred posts have been made to http://sports.groups.yahoo.com in the 2 weeks since just one post has been made here is evidence that this forum is a solution in search of a problem already solved by http://sports.groups.yahoo.com?

    Andy Seipos
    #597 Street Tire

    wi_whoami
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    26 Jun 2006 10:12 PM
    aseipos wrote:
    Perhaps the fact the several hundred posts have been made to http://sports.groups.yahoo.com in the 2 weeks since just one post has been made here is evidence that this forum is a solution in search of a problem already solved by http://sports.groups.yahoo.com?

    Andy Seipos
    #597 Street Tire



    I just don't have anything to say... :-)

    ...with currrently broken Evo (hopefully fixed in time for the NT event this weekend!)
    Patrick Washburn
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    27 Jun 2006 09:06 AM

    aseipos wrote:
    Perhaps the fact the several hundred posts have been made to http://sports.groups.yahoo.com in the 2 weeks since just one post has been made here is evidence that this forum is a solution in search of a problem already solved by http://sports.groups.yahoo.com?

    Andy Seipos
    #597 Street Tire

    Going back to 6/13, I see 22 posts in the Milwaukee forum. 19 of those are the same thread asking for road race workers. An unusually busy two weeks I must add.

    cashmo
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    27 Jun 2006 03:06 PM
    Pat, I believe Andy's refering to all the posts on the Chicago area autox forum on Yahoo, not just the Milw region forum there. I think you dropped off of that one awhile ago. I'm not sure we'd want to see all of those local posts on such a high traffic area as this. Perhaps a compromise solution would be this type of forum on another URL, (provided it had email capability, not just notifications, but actual email msg content).

    Jeff
    Mugenlude
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    27 Jun 2006 04:34 PM
    cashmo wrote:
    I'm not sure we'd want to see all of those local posts on such a high traffic area as this. Perhaps a compromise solution would be this type of forum on another URL, (provided it had email capability, not just notifications, but actual email msg content).

    Jeff
    When you say "high traffic area" are you referring to the "Lastest Post" link at the top of the page? or just a larger forum in general? I know that Chris was looking into a search that would be able to exclude the Regional Forums. I could see that being needed in the future definately, it is a great service he is offering to us, I don't see why more regions wouldn't also take advantage of the service. If that happened and say there were 15 regions with forums here the "Latest Posts" search would be full of local messages.

    It does seems as if people want the email capability, hopefully Chris will be able to get the licenses for that feature so we can have the best of both of worlds (email and forum access).
    Mugenlude
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    27 Jun 2006 04:44 PM
    aseipos wrote:
    Perhaps the fact the several hundred posts have been made to http://sports.groups.yahoo.com in the 2 weeks since just one post has been made here is evidence that this forum is a solution in search of a problem already solved by http://sports.groups.yahoo.com?

    Andy Seipos
    #597 Street Tire
    I see 70 posts here in 3 weeks, and 450 on the yahoo board. I don't think it is going to happen overnight. And we don't have David disputing every post here, which would at least double every thread. [;)]
    christoc
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    27 Jun 2006 05:11 PM
    I'm hoping to have a filtering/favorites solution in place in the coming weeks.
    Patrick Washburn
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    27 Jun 2006 06:16 PM

    cashmo wrote:
    Pat, I believe Andy's refering to all the posts on the Chicago area autox forum on Yahoo, not just the Milw region forum there. I think you dropped off of that one awhile ago. I'm not sure we'd want to see all of those local posts on such a high traffic area as this. Perhaps a compromise solution would be this type of forum on another URL, (provided it had email capability, not just notifications, but actual email msg content).

    Jeff

    Got it, and yes I dropped off that list. I agree that I would not want to see this forum display that kind of local traffic, as I said in my earlier posts. Ultimately, I like your solution best, and what I had in mind when I posted the MAC site as an example. Don't want to see it become a war...just wanted a better inteface than Yahoo. I'll go wherever.



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