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Last Post 24 Jan 2003 09:34 AM by  JimFMracer
New SCCA Enterprises Formula/SportsRacer
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Jakester
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17 Sep 2002 01:39 PM
    [url="http://www.scca-enterprises.com/formula_sportsracer.html"]http://www.scca-enterprises.com/formula_sportsracer.html[/URL]

    What do you guys think?
    Rob Lay
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    18 Sep 2002 04:38 PM
    Hey Jake, I've already started thinking about a national class and the more spec classes like SRF and FM seem to have great turnouts and competition.

    Do you know anything else about the engine? I've heard the SRF engines don't drive like a real race car engine. If these things rev like a real engine, that would be a plus over SRF.

    I don't see how the formula version could be competitive in FA, but I guess that might be a temporary stop before they can spec into it's own class.

    I would also like this more if you could switch the bodies in less than 3 hours. It would be nice to run two groups a weekend.

    Regards,
    rob lay
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    BrianCunningham
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    20 Sep 2002 03:53 PM
    I'll be watching this.

    How big is the cockpit?

    I was all set to get a FormulaVee as a track car when I found out I don't fit!

    6'1" 215lbs

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    vee5
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    20 Sep 2002 06:28 PM
    Brian,

    You must have not looked hard enough. At 5'11", 245lbs,size 12 shoes, I fit fine in my Womer Fvee. You have to keep trying them on for size. Don't give up! It will take a few years for this spec.car to catch on; especially being that it is overclassed a la Panoz GT-1 car and for right now doesn't have a pro series a la FMazda. Hopefully, these cars don't end up like the Shelby Can-Am.

    Rich
    BrianCunningham
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    21 Sep 2002 02:50 PM
    But how competative would a car that's big enough to hold me be?
    vee5
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    21 Sep 2002 05:35 PM
    Brian,

    It would be hard to tell, depends mostly on drivers skill, strength of the engine, and tires. Hugh Maloney has a Womer and he is about the same size as you and usually a top 5 regional driver. I have 2 hillclimb championships with mine. Most of the newer designs(Womer,Vector,Protoform,Vortech) will fit bigger drivers, but if you are looking for an older car then, a possibly a D-13. Unfortunatly, the D-13 is a drafter and you might be left behind on tracks like the Glen or Pocono(Nascar road course). But like I say you must try them on for size and pick the best one that you are comfortable in.
    Try these sites, they might help you. [url="http://www.sracing.com"]www.sracing.com[/URL]
    formulavee.proboards2.com
    The one thing that I like about the vee is there usually is someone out there to race with no matter what end of the grid you are on.

    Rich
    shooter31
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    22 Sep 2002 08:14 AM
    i'm 5-10 or so....around 225. i fit fine. car is competitive....i'm working on my being competitive. i see guys bigger than i am in vees. if you want to do it....you can.

    bill
    fv31
    SV56
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    02 Jan 2003 08:10 PM
    Hopefully they WILL end up just like Shelby Can-Am! A major screwing of most of the open wheel membership by the club's officers in order to give enterprises something to do now that SRF is winding down. They should have just sold the pieces off to the Service reps and put that Enterprises white elephant to death.
    Max Lake
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    03 Jan 2003 09:36 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SV56:
    [b]They should have just sold the pieces off to the Service reps and put that Enterprises white elephant to death.[/b]


    And left 700+ car owners without a source of parts?
    Jeff
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    05 Jan 2003 12:27 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SV56:
    [b]Hopefully they WILL end up just like Shelby Can-Am! [/b]


    You can hope all you want but this car is going to be a huge success. Sexy, Price, Speed, Pro series, Club series(don't you worry about it, in 04 the formula car will have it's own national class). I'll put money on it. I'm already putting $27k down on a car that doesn't even have it's own club class. But like I said don't worry about it. SCCAForums Image

    BTW you couldn't pay me to take a can-am.
    Eric Prill
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    06 Jan 2003 07:59 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by BrianCunningham:
    [b]I'll be watching this.

    How big is the cockpit?

    I was all set to get a FormulaVee as a track car when I found out I don't fit!

    6'1" 215lbs

    [/b]



    Brian,

    World Challenge tech manager Aaron Coalwell fit in the car and said he could drive it. He's 6'5" and 300#.
    [url="http://www.scca-enterprises.com/media/newcar.html wrote:
    http://www.scca-enterprises.com/media/newcar.html[/URL]



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    John Walsh
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    06 Jan 2003 12:44 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SV56:
    [b]A major screwing of most of the open wheel membership by the club's officers in order to give enterprises something to do now that SRF is winding down. [/b]


    Ummm...WINDING DOWN ? 50+ car grids at Nationals and over 800 cars in the field isn't what most would describe as "winding down", but feel free to enlighten us.

    How does this new chassis represent a "major screwing" of the membership ? New car has been planted where it can do no HARM until it proves itself. No formula class has been dropped. FF & FC ? Just MAJOR engine component sourcing problems there...like trying to find good heads, cranks, etc. From 10,000 ft., it looks like the new spec car is good news for the formula crowd, as it guarantees that they'll be around for a while. Again...enlighten us pleeze.
    SV56
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    12 Jan 2003 05:30 PM
    If you're going to run open wheel, go over to FF1600.com, F2000.com, and the now defunct Formula Ford Underground for the whole discussion on this topic. We would all like some engine changes. FF got a few new parts, but it's hard to get the job done when club leadership would rather have folks in their sexy new chassis. Ask for pistons and rods with more longevity and you get the old "outside the spirit of the class" nonsense.

    As for the screwing, chassis prices for the existing classes have crashed and will continue to drop while the Club promotes a class in competition with it's own members.

    F2000 especially was healthy. FF has been contentious on the issue of new components and the Club leadership exploited that. The Club has always had aspirations to be something bigger, namely the stepping stone to big time open wheel racing in the US. But the leadership didn't bother to go to the membership to ask what needed to be done, they took off on their own route.

    As to selling off enterprises to the existing corps of support vendors, how would that leave 700 people without a source of parts? My comment about SRF winding down referred to the fact that the class has topped out. Club leadership wanted a way to generate more income at Enterprises AND become that stepping stone. SRF may be extremely popular, but it's not helping the Club reach those goals.

    [This message has been edited by SV56 (edited January 12, 2003).]
    John Walsh
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    13 Jan 2003 08:53 AM
    SV56 - you haven't answered any questions, you've simply restated what you stated before.

    Re: SRF - What the hell does "topped out" mean ?

    Re: FF - You refer to "Club Leadership". Does this mean the SCCA President & BOD ? The Competition Board ? The Formula car Advisory Board ? The highly dysfunctional FF racers who THEMSELVES can't agree on what changes they want ? Who is the "we" that you refer to ? Some noisy guys on the web boards, or the REAL body of FF racers ? Yes, FF needs new engine parts, but to somehow blame SCCA without including the FF community in that blame is laughable.

    Re: Chassis prices tanking - Whoa baby...Enterprises gets commitments to sell 30 cars, and you somehow connect that to a disappearing market for F cars ? There is a lousy market for non-competitive old chassis - whether it's old FF, FC, FA. Nobody wants an old slow slug. Formula car entries haven't shrunk at the Nat'l level, so how can you connect the new spec F car with anything.

    Prices for cars are tanking because there is nobody new coming into the class because it doesn't hold anything for the kind of people coming into club racing today. FC chassis prices are cratering because nobody wants to spend big bucks on a package that doesn't include the Zetec replacement motor that EVERYONE LOBBIED FOR.

    I read the whole FF1600 thread about "SCCA says FF is Dead". Did you ? Read what a bunch of respected guys in the class have to say - even Jay Ivey said "You guy's can complain about the engines all you want but most of the problems are self inflicted. And the same mistakes and problems will still be there no matter what engine is used."

    The Spec car has nothing to do with the problems in FF or FC or FA. You've found a classic 'straw man' here.

    Answer the questions. No more tired internet rhetoric, please. Answers ?

    [This message has been edited by John Walsh (edited January 13, 2003).]

    [This message has been edited by John Walsh (edited January 13, 2003).]
    Patrick Washburn
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    13 Jan 2003 07:35 PM
    I've been somewhat confused by the general apprehension with the new package. I hear that we all want to promote open wheel racing and everyone seems to agree that a viable feeder series is what the doctor ordered. From my point of view, here's a shot at it and yet I sure hear a lot of howling.

    My take on all this is that somehow people feel slighted because it does not include them. What about *us*, said the FF driver? What about *us* said the F2000 driver? So on, and so on. I was under the impression that growing involved new ideas, bringing in new people and cars, not just serving the existing membership.

    Maybe I'm somehow insanely nieve but I see a cool looking package that reflects the current statet of the modern open wheel race car, at what appears to be a pretty affordable turn key number. Performance appears, while not steller, to be reasonable while cost containment seems to be there. Taking out all of the frankly self serving reasoning and rhetoric, tell me again why this is a terrible thing to happen to American open wheel racing????

    BTW, I read the FF1600 thread and I own a Swift DB1 FF.

    Pat
    JimFMracer
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    24 Jan 2003 09:34 AM
    Not to stir things up too much but the Formula Mazda is now allowed to race with the new SCCA Formula Car in the SCCA PRO Series. See the 1/23 announcement at [url="http://www.sccapro.com"]www.sccapro.com[/URL]
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