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Last Post 10 Nov 2003 11:28 AM by  fastmike
Regional Classing, NWR
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MGB GTR
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17 Oct 2003 12:25 PM
    What do you think of the NWR classing. Kyle
    Tim Irwin
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    17 Oct 2003 03:05 PM
    I've been meaning to write up a proposal that we discussed in the solo strategic planning committee sessions. I'll have to look up my notes for the class breakdown, but it would essentially break stock up into three indexed classes with similar types of cars. For example, SS, AS and FS; DS, GS, HS, and BS, CS, ES. The positions would then be awarded according to pax values.
    Picaska
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    17 Oct 2003 03:24 PM
    I'd be happy to help out in any way I can on getting something like this put together.
    SpudZ
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    17 Oct 2003 03:26 PM
    Tim,
    How would do the other classes . Prepared , Street Prepared , Street Mod an others ??? This would be a great idea if WWSCC and other Clubs in the Northwest adopt it . We at Autosports Northwest are using a semi modified SCCA clssing system . With the exception of Street Mod . We only run one class there. We have Open for purpose built race cars . And Mod for past streetable cars that normally would fit into D or E mod. We draw anywhere between 65 and 120 entries , and it doesn't seem right to hand out trophies to guys in a one car class.

    I think most of us would like to run against some other type of competition . Street Modified has been a large drawa , because a lot of guys would rather run in a large class like that.

    If the class lines were more based on PAX I think more of the local guys would travel more . We rarely have anyone from our Club make it to the Nationals .

    I am very interested in your ideas and classing.

    Mike
    Autosports Northwest
    Alan Dahl
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    17 Oct 2003 03:45 PM
    Would this proposal be in addition to the existing PAX classes? I'd hate to not be able to compare my times against the PAX-level drivers in other classes.

    IMHO the real problem is that somehow PAX has evolved from a casual "who cares about a trophy class" into the ultimate "top dog" class. My recommendation to solve the problem of lack of entries in the regular classes would be to eliminate all trophies (per-event and year-end) for PAX, with the exception perhaps of some perpetual trophy to be handed on at each event for the top finisher similar to the "Top Gun" hat we used to have.
    The_Winch
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    17 Oct 2003 04:19 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by SpudZ:
    Tim,
    How would do the other classes . Prepared , Street Prepared , Street Mod an others ???
    You probably need to look at the typical participation levels in the region to tailor a solution.

    I imagine these class groupings change over time as class size changes or new classes come in or old classes go away.

    In NWR this year, collapsing open and ladies classes and ignoring whether the car was running in street tire or PAX, here are the class participation levels (divide by 6 events to get per event averages):

    Class Cnt
    ----- -----------
    SM 101
    STS 60
    SS 52
    CS 49
    HS 42
    FSP 42
    SM2 41
    DSP 41
    GS 39
    DS 38
    BS 31
    ES 31
    ASP 30
    CSP 25
    EP 20
    AS 19
    ESP 15
    STX 14
    DM 13
    BSP 7
    CP 6
    EM 6
    FS 5
    FP 3
    DP 3
    FM 1

    So using Tim's groupings for the Stock Classes, you have

    SS/AS/FS: 13
    BS/CS/ES: 19
    DS/GS/HS: 21

    And here's one possible grouping for the rest:

    FSP/DSP/CSP/STX: 20
    ESP/BSP/ASP/CP/BP: 10
    All other P, M and OS: 8
    SM: 17
    STS: 10
    SM2: 7

    1/3 of these driver counts are in indexed classes, and another 10% are in ladies classes, but assuming the ratios of ladies and indexed are the same in all classes, then cut the above numbers (for the combined classes) in half and you've got a decent approximation for average # of drivers per event per combined class....

    In the end you have 12 different classes * 2 for ladies classes (24 classes vs the current 71 or so).
    fastmike
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    18 Oct 2003 12:52 PM
    I think that it is very important for our region to be able to have "ride alongs"(for lack of a better term...)
    ie: Shelbi and I ride together for first couple of runs in PAX and then run alone for last one or two..
    I think this has really helped out each of us...
    Lots of PAX people are doing it.

    I thought I heard(mistaken on this???) that idea behind letting PAX runners do ride alongs was to help out as Novice instructors too..I only did a few of those this year..(did every one that was asked of me though..)

    I have got feedback that other regions do this also(allow ride alongs).
    I think that it a GREAT instruction/learning tool..
    I want all our region members to improve and become faster..(which sometimes does equal "safer" due to increased car control and improved racing lines etc..)

    I raced Street tire 2 years ago due to the fact that it was a large indexed class(large classes are attractive to me)and that it was DAMN easy to just show up and run..NO changing tires..
    UGH!

    I guess you gotta ask yourself if EVERYONE ran PAX or STire, what would happen???(I don't know)..

    FM
    The_Winch
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    18 Oct 2003 01:30 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by fastmike:
    I guess you gotta ask yourself if EVERYONE ran PAX or STire, what would happen???(I don't know)..
    FM
    They'd have a hard time splitting up run groups and it might as well be a practice since the frequent weather changes during the day would render competition meaningless.
    Tim Irwin
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    20 Oct 2003 09:18 AM
    It's been a crazy weekend, so I've been pretty much off line, but I'll try to answer a few questions with my original thoughts on the classes.

    I was originally addressing stock classes only, but have no problem expanding the idea to non-stock as long as I get some help with grouping (thanks Jeff). My thought is to leave the robust classes alone (pretty much all of the non-traditional SCCA classes) like STS, STX, SM(2), and group the traditional ones.

    Originally I was planning on leaving PAX and NS-PAX alone, hoping that some drivers who went to PAX may decide to run in the other classes. Egos may not allow that though.

    Street tire would remain the same as far as I'm concerned (I like it how it is).

    Naming and numbering ideas have been bouncing around in my head, but I haven't settled on anything specific.

    One possible issue with sharply reducing the number of classes is that it may make the task of switching from 3 to 2 run groups that much more difficult, but if the worker chief had a 2 group layout ahead of time, it may work.
    fastmike
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    20 Oct 2003 05:26 PM
    These ideas are very interesting..
    Might just work!
    Maybe it will get more people over to "stock".
    I think for next year me and my co-driver are likely to stay in "traditional" PAX/PRO though..
    Who knows what will happen in 2005.
    Hopefully someone will come up with some cool and catchy names for classing..
    FM
    The_Winch
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    20 Oct 2003 11:20 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by fastmike:
    I think for next year me and my co-driver are likely to stay in "traditional" PAX/PRO though..
    Well, since you're leading stock PAX, it seems reasonable for you to stay in that class. ;-)
    fastmike
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    22 Oct 2003 12:52 AM
    I think that is important to allow the "other" stock paxed classes to have competitors ride along with each other..Like I said in earlier post/This REALLY helps ALL drivers/at least I think that it does..
    Shouldn't hurt the insurance at SCCA events since we already allow riders????
    "Single" drivers with absolutely no friends or severe body odor or something might have a little trouble getting a ridealong though...

    Last event is going to be pretty exciting..all coming down to the "wire"....
    I am pumped!(and coming "prepared".)

    It is nice that I went to every event cause I get to drop a 88.xxx or something like that..(ugh!)
    Glen and Joe do not get to drop..

    I learned some VERY valuable lessons this year.(which I will not forget)

    1: Car choice matters(although GS pax is not changing much for next year/Phew!)Guess I getta listen to the "cheater pax talk" all next year too..

    2:EVERY/EVERY/EVERY run counts for the season!!!
    Kenny/Susan told me that a long time ago..Guess I took me this long to have it REALLY sink in..

    I had a couple of "stupid" cones this year.
    At event 4, I was trying to turn on radio at Bremerton finish to listen to my time and I caught the last cone on course on my best run.
    This one hurt the worst! would of had a 99.6 or something and this would of allowed me drop a 98.3 for the season!!!!OUCH!
    Moral of story: your run is not "over" until you are parked safely in grid!!!

    Port of Seattle/crappy lot, I ran over a single cone at the start of a slalom on my best run(Shelbi was in car and said "what was THAT!??")there was a section that was basically a "no thinking/resting" section towards the finish and I lost concentration I guess..(would only helped my points a little)

    I hit a "dumb" but "real" cone(I am the dumb one)at Yakima too..(woulda/coulda/shoulda won that event! .4 points).

    I would have a little bit more of cushion in points if I did not do these stupid things.
    Those were not the only stupid things I did this year but were the "stupidist"./The radio one REALLY hurts...

    3:Shocks matter somewhat...DUH!

    See everyone at event 8!

    FM
    MGB GTR
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    23 Oct 2003 09:03 AM
    If you all haven't had a chance to see Mike in awhile you would noticed that things have started to change. Mike has come down with the worst of all SOLO 2 diseases.........A disease that effects the senses and forces the mind to focus on the smallest most minute things....... Mike has come down with PAXITIS... :) JK ofcourse. What a great season. Good luck to you all at event 8
    fastmike
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    23 Oct 2003 12:36 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by MGB GTR:
    If you all haven't had a chance to see Mike in awhile you would noticed that things have started to change. Mike has come down with the worst of all SOLO 2 diseases.........A disease that effects the senses and forces the mind to focus on the smallest most minute things....... Mike has come down with PAXITIS... :) JK ofcourse. What a great season. Good luck to you all at event 8
    ROFL!!!
    Kyle is correct:
    Beware of this awful disease...
    There is no cure that I currently know of..
    PAXITIS...(what a great name)..
    FM
    (thanks for the good chuckle today Kyle../I needed it!)
    fastmike
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    10 Nov 2003 11:28 AM
    Getting this post back to the top...
    I want to get the rule changed about riders..
    Rule meeting is Tuesday..
    Please help
    FM
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