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Last Post 14 Nov 2003 03:39 PM by  gorper
NWR Regional Classing proposal
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Tim Irwin
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10 Nov 2003 09:03 PM
    Current rule:
    15. SCCA CLASSES. Cars will be classed according to the current SCCA Solo II Rules (SIIR). Competition will be provided in all listed Open and Ladies classes.

    Replace 15 with
    Cars will be classed according to the current SCCA Solo II Rules (SIIR). Classes in the SCCA SIIR shall be combined at the start of the season to improve competition depth in the classes. Class similarity and SIIR appendix B (bumping order) should be used to guide the consolidation of classes.

    For the 2004 season, the following classes shall be consolidated:
    Stock Ladies (SSL, ASL, BSL, CSL, DSL, ESL, FSL, GSL, HSL) + (ST?)
    Non-Stock Ladies (all other ladies classes)
    Stock 1 (SS, AS, FS)
    Stock 2 (BS, CS, ES)
    Stock 3 (DS, GS, HS)
    Non-Stock 1 (ASP, BSP, ESP, BP, CP)
    Non-Stock 2 (CSP, DSP, FSP)
    Non-Stock 3 (AP, DP, EP, FP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, F125, Formula Jr, Spec Formula Jr, Formula SAE)

    Numbering for these classes will remain as standard SCCA numbering (AS, BS, etc.).

    [b]Class finishing position will be based on current year PAX values.[/b]

    Purpose:
    The standard stock classes have gotten too small to provide reasonable competition. Consolidation along these lines would allow for worker distribution and minimize car type differences due to course design or weather. Grouping for trophies should not be too difficult of a modification to the scoring software.


    The class participation breakdown would be as follows (PAX, street tire, and other classes not consolidated were not counted in the breakdown):

    Classes	               Avg/Event     Trophy Depth<br />Stock 1	SS, AS, FS	            7.88	5<br />Stock 2	BS, CS, ES	            6.63	6<br />Stock 3	DS, GS, HS	            5.01	3<br />			<br />StockL 1 SSL, ASL, FSL	               0	0<br />StockL 2 BSL, CSL, ESL	               1	1<br />StockL 3 DSL, GSL, HSL	            2.13	2<br />-OR-			<br />Ladies	All Stock	            3.13	3<br />			<br />NStock 1 ASP, BSP, ESP, BP, CP      5.38	3<br />NStock 2 CSP, DSP, FSP	            7.64	6<br />NStock 3 AP, DP, EP, FP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, F125, Formula Jr, Spec Formula Jr, Formula SAE<br />	                            5.26	3<br />			<br />LNStock 1 ASP, BSP, ESP, BP, CP	    0.25	<br />LNStock 2 CSP, DSP, FSP	            1.13	1<br />LNStock 3 AP, DP, EP, FP, AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, F125, Formula Jr, Spec Formula Jr, Formula SAE<br />	                            2.13	2<br />			<br />Ladies NS All Non Stock	            3.51	3<br />			<br />Ladies NS + ST*	                    5.14	4
    [b]Boldface indicates text edited since original post.[/b]
    rambler
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    11 Nov 2003 06:23 AM
    So from the above I assume the classes you have not listed (SM, SM2, STS, STX, etc) would all remain stand alone?

    Nash
    Hurricane
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    11 Nov 2003 06:49 AM
    Tim,
    Couple quick Questions...
    1)I am guessing that you are going to use the PAX indexes to equalize the combined classes?

    2)Any thoughts to how numbering will be done? (i.e. If we had a person in BS and a person in CS with the same number last year who would get the number? Or would it matter if you are still usinig the same class designation? Would that cause any scoring system problems??

    One comment...
    You might want to group them differently, say by classes that were close together PAX wise like changing FS and BS around. See below...

    Stock 1 (SS,AS,BS)
    Stock 2 (CS,ES,FS)
    MGB GTR
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    11 Nov 2003 07:25 AM
    Glen,
    I understand your reasoning for grouping the classes that have closer pax #'s together but I think that Tim is trying to group classes together that have so that course dependance is reduced abit. With SS,AS and FS being classed together, each classes core is higher horsepower RWD vehicles. Atleast that was my take on it. Kyle
    Tim Irwin
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    11 Nov 2003 08:04 AM
    Nash,

    Any classes not included have been left independent. Currently STS, STX, SM, and SM2 have sufficient participants to be left on their own, and I question the wisdom of PAXing ST* classes with race tire classes anyway.
    Tim Irwin
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    11 Nov 2003 08:06 AM
    Glen and Kyle,

    Kyle is correct. The intention was to group similar types of cars to reduce course and weather descrepencies with the PAXing system. Of course the new AWD cars in AS mess this up a bit, but that's racing.

    I see it as:
    Stock 1 - Big, powerful (mostly) RWD cars
    Stock 2 - Smaller (mostly) 4cyl RWD cars
    Stock 3 - FWD (mostly) cars
    fastmike
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    11 Nov 2003 09:07 AM
    Tim: please check you e-mail..

    Thanks!
    FM
    PedalFaster
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    11 Nov 2003 12:03 PM
    Is there any way to cast an official vote on this proposal without attending the meeting in person?

    Sounds like a great idea to me, for the record.

    Steve
    MGB GTR
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    11 Nov 2003 12:59 PM
    I will also not be attending but I am all for it. kyle
    MGB GTR
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    11 Nov 2003 01:17 PM
    When and where is the meeting tonight?
    Tim Irwin
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    11 Nov 2003 01:32 PM
    7pm at McGowan's in Renton

    http://www.wwscc.org/locations/mcgowans.html

    I'm not sure that there will be actual voting or just polishing for the December meeting where things actually get voted on. I am pretty sure that things can be killed in this meeting and never make it to the December meeting.

    Tim
    Hurricane
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    11 Nov 2003 01:34 PM
    Another question. If we are going to PAX these classes is that going to make it harder for people new to the sport to follow how they are doing as the race is going? Us PAX people are used to that but are the rest of the people?
    MGB GTR
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    11 Nov 2003 08:16 PM
    Does the NWR have a inforce trial period for new classing decisions like new national classes and such. Maybe we should try this new setup for a few events and get a feel for it? Just an opinion....i know it would screw up year end trophies if we went back to the old system...but isn't the goal to make the best experience for the long run..... Kyle
    Tim Irwin
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    12 Nov 2003 08:24 AM
    Well, I figure the trial period is about a year. If people don't like it at the end of the year, they can change it.

    BTW, this passed, with the modification that the ladies classes will mirror the men's classes, Formula Junior is in it's own class, and class numbering is left to the input of T&S chiefs.

    I'll be encouraging doing something with timing reporting so drivers have real time scoring available in grid or something.
    MGB GTR
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    12 Nov 2003 09:47 AM
    Wouldn't it be sweet if our region had an electronic realtime posting board. We would be way ahead of the times. I know this sort of thing has had its problems at PRO events but I have faith in our Region. With all of our technology savvy members we should be able to come up with something......BTW, I just love thinking out loud. I come up with the idea and hope others will figure out the solution...hahahahahahahaha
    Tim Irwin
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    12 Nov 2003 10:23 AM
    That's kind of along the lines that I was thinking of.

    Hmm, plasmas are getting cheaper ;)
    PedalFaster
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    12 Nov 2003 10:35 AM
    Congrats on getting this passed -- I think bigger classes will make things more fun for all involved.

    Steve
    - thinking about running away from PAX with my tail between my legs :)
    MGB GTR
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    12 Nov 2003 11:32 AM
    Thanx for getting this passed Tim. I think it will be exciting for people to have more competition. Now I have the choice to be SLOW in two classes that have competition ;) hahahaha
    PS- I think I saw a plasma for $2700 the other day....I'm very sure it wasn't water proof though(good for the NWR :) )
    fastmike
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    12 Nov 2003 04:24 PM
    Time will tell if this change + the availability/advantage of riding/driving in all classes except for novice drivers will make mostly everyone happier!
    I sure hope it does...
    Thanks for the hard work Tim/Jeff etc..

    FM
    gorper
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    14 Nov 2003 03:39 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tim Irwin:
    That's kind of along the lines that I was thinking of.

    Hmm, plasmas are getting cheaper ;)
    What about buying a cheap old laptop, weatherproofing it in some sort of lexan box or what have you, putting an old polarizing filter over the screen for visibility, and throwing a bluetooth card into both it and the data entry PC?

    Then, perhaps post the several most recent times at, say, the top edge of the screen, and below it cycle through each class' standings every 10 seconds or so (thereby eliminating external input). Or, if simplicity is key, just mirror the data entry person's screen...
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