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Last Post 09 Apr 2004 05:52 AM by  GreenCrossle
Race Length
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RichardM
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06 Apr 2004 03:27 PM
    In tune with Kirk's survey herein, I have a question for every one. In the past, almost all classes of race cars were national. A regional race was to earn points towards getting your national license. Then along came IT cars. Now the cars are regional but not the drivers. A regional race is shorter than a national race according to the GCR. Should this no longer be the case?

    An alternate question, should IT prep rules be adopted for the production classes and therefore all IT cars would become legal for national races?
    Richard Miller
    T&S and performance rally for 24 years.
    IT racing 3 times.
    Peter Olivola
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    06 Apr 2004 04:42 PM
    Are the IT drivers willing to pay National entry fees? Are you willing to eliminate the dual National/Regional events? Are you willing to accept unsafe National run groups? Are you willing to eliminate Double Regionals? Will there be enough entries in a Regional only single to make the event worthwhile for the hosting region?

    Those are the kinds of things that would have to happen if you were to expand the Regional schedule to make race length the same as Nationals.

    I would also challenge your assertion that Regionals exist primarily to provide an opportunity to earn points toward a National license. There have always been many National drivers who ran Regionals, even before the Regional Only classes. In some cases it's because they realize they aren't competitive in Nationals. In some cases they don't have any interest or financial means to make the Runoffs. In some cases they are one track specialists and only run the "local" National(s.) In some cases they don't want a heavy travel schedule. That's just a partial list of reasons why drivers with National licenses run Regionals.
    oanglade
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    07 Apr 2004 06:43 AM
    Where in the GCR does it say that the Regional races must be shorter than the National? I can only find that the length of a National is defined, but nothing about a Regional.

    In any case, making an IT Regional race as long as a National would not add THAT much time to the schedule. I bet most regions group all the IT cars together, so it's only one race that would be longer than before, and by what, 15 or 20 minutes?

    You don't need to make ALL regional races as long as a National. Only the IT group. All the other classes can also run National races.

    Well, there's also Spec Miata, but I bet it becomes a National class in a couple of years.
    Peter Olivola
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    07 Apr 2004 07:00 AM
    I don't know about most regions, but the Area 5 regions do not group all IT cars together.

    We also need to define things better in this dicussion. Are we talking about combined Regional/National weekends, Regional weekends, Double Regional weekends, Restricted Regional/Pro weekends, Restricted Regional/National weekends, single day Regionals (do they still do those at Lime Rock?) Each will have different circumstances that will have to be addressed.

    The circumstances will be further complicated by local track restrictions like Laguna Seca's sound windows and various curfew situations. Time of year (hours of daylight) also need to be factored in as do class numbers. Some tracks can safely support run group class combinations that are not safe at other tracks and this, too affects scheduling. With more classes at Regionals that is an even more significant factor than for Nationals.

    If you want to influence the types of events, schedules, etc., then your most productive approach is to get involved in your Region's race organization. That's where such decisions are made. Due to the wide variance in circumstances it is unlikely that the CRB/BoD will ever consider putting this in the GCR.
    bhudson
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    07 Apr 2004 08:41 AM
    Speaking from observation....

    In the SEDIV, Regional races tend to be a few laps shorter because there are more race groups than Nationals. National entry fees tend to be higher because each group gets more track time.

    With the exception of Atlanta Region Pro-IT (restricted regionals) I can't remember the last time a National and Regional race were held at the same event in the SEDIV.

    Bob Hudson
    Atlanta Region
    RichardM
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    07 Apr 2004 08:39 PM
    My questions and answers intermixed.
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Olivola:
    Are the IT drivers willing to pay National entry fees?
    Well are you?
    Are you willing to eliminate the dual National/Regional events?
    Assuming the editorial 'you' and not me in particular, huh? Why is this a question?
    Are you willing to accept unsafe National run groups?
    Why would this be unsafe? Differing speeds?
    Are you willing to eliminate Double Regionals?
    Again, why is this necessary?
    Will there be enough entries in a Regional only single to make the event worthwhile for the hosting region?
    This also was a problem in the past.
    Those are the kinds of things that would have to happen if you were to expand the Regional schedule to make race length the same as Nationals.

    I would also challenge your assertion that Regionals exist primarily to provide an opportunity to earn points toward a National license.
    I said that this was the way it was in the past. Even if a driver was a local track only driver, he or she still wanted all the track time possible and would get a national license just to race both days. I don't disagree with the rest of your comments and have snipped them in the interest of bandwidth.

    Good comments.
    Richard
    Andy Bettencourt
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    08 Apr 2004 05:29 PM
    Ony,

    Here in New England, we have 7-8 run groups per event. If you add 10 minutes per race, you are looking at 70-80 minutes! Our groups look like this: ITS/ITB and ITA/ITC. These groups usually have over 30 cars.

    AB
    GreenCrossle
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    09 Apr 2004 05:52 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by oanglade:

    You don't need to make ALL regional races as long as a National. Only the IT group. All the other classes can also run National races.
    Not true.

    SM
    ASR
    SPU/M/O
    Vintage
    CF
    CFC
    FL
    (I've probably missed some others)

    There is a very good reason for having Regional-only classes. Personally, I have held a national license since 1999, but never actually ran a national race until this spring. Why? I wanted to compete in the local CF series, with the same group of drivers week-in and week-out. We had our own idea of a 'reasonable' cost level for the cars, and we generally stuck to it, as a group. If the class were national, we would have lost this local control over the character of our racing.

    There are many local regional-only series'; MARRS, SARRC, Kryder, NARRC, Oregon Region's series, etc. I would bet that if you talked with these competitors, many would tell you that they'd prefer not to have the national drivers in their groups - they want to run their series with their regional competition.

    There is a benefit to keeping certain classes regional-only. It keeps costs down, and allows for local rule-shifting that can't be accomodated in national classes (thus national races). CF, for example, is an intentional regional class. Every CF car is FF-legal, by definition, but these drivers want a cost-controlled open-wheel series that doesn't spiral up to where it requires a national-level effort to compete.

    IT and the other regional classes work, and they're here for a very good reason. You now can run SS cars in nationals for ten years, so there is a 5-year overlap in eligibility for these cars. Why fix something that isn't broken? If you want a new national class, come up with it and propose it. There needs to be a stock-based regional class group though, so I wouldn't hold my breath that you'll get significant support for doing away with the one we have - IT.
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