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Last Post 12 Apr 2006 04:53 PM by  mattg
Heat selection
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Seth53
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10 Apr 2006 08:29 PM
    Driver A arrives at 7:30 AM after a 120 mile drive and is told there are three heats to choose from. Driver A knows that according to the supps heat 3 works heat 1. Driver A likes to drive heat 3 so they can watch the other heats to help decide how they will drive the course, so driver A takes a heat 3 ticket. Later Driver B arrives to find that event officials have decided that three heats isn't enough to hold the near record attendance. Driver B has a fourth heat to choose from now. Driver B chooses heat 1 because heat 1 works heat 3 and they are done after that and they can go home to their family. Driver A is still working heat one and their work assignment isn't affected. Before Driver C shows up event officials have decide that four heats still isn't enough for the near record attendance so they open up a fifth heat. Driver C now picks heat 2 so they can run heat 2 and work heat 4 then go home to their family. Driver B isn't affected by the fifth heat being opened but now Driver A is stuck being at the event the entire day. Driver A knows that they could have asked to work a different heat, but knows that that would have left their heat without enough workers. Driver A anticipated that a fourth heat was going to be opened up because that is what event officials have done in the past, but that would have still caused them to stay the entire day if they chose heat 2 or 4. Driver A now feels like it is a disadvantage to show up early and get a heat ticket and wonders why event officials can't anticipate event attendence based on past years attendance and forum discussion. Maybe from now on Driver A will show up around 9 AM get a heat ticket, make up a reason at registration to get whatever heat best benifits their run/work desire, walk the cource a couple times, run the heat they wanted and then head home.
    John P
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    10 Apr 2006 08:56 PM
    I can tell your frustrated but before you take it out on the people who help put together these events you have to consider:

    Not one person HAS to even have these events. If they didn't volunteer you wouldn't have anywhere here to even enjoy Auto-X. If alot of people show up, it's not their fault.

    Alot of people put there own time into setting up and running the events if it is that much of a problem you can take plan B.

    Driver A stays home.
    Danno3
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    10 Apr 2006 09:00 PM
    a) because the average attendance last year was 115, not 160+
    b) because if the heats are too small there aren't enough workers
    c) because if the heats are too large the workers have to work too long
    d) because life ain't fair.

    Sorry you got hosed. But sometimes that happens. If getting out early is your priority, you can always drive heat one and work heat three. By my reading of the supps, that appears to be the only constant.
    Seth53
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    10 Apr 2006 09:33 PM
    If the attendance last year at the last event was 164 and there was a good turnout at the novice school why wasn't there 4 heats opened up? The first event of the year is always the largest. If turnout isn't big enough then combine heats. If organizers weren't able to anticipate a huge turnout maybe they should rethink the rest of the season. As to me running heat one and working heat three, that is the same heats that I would have been active in the heat choice that I was given when I arrived yesterday, so your solution is no better to the situation than my first action.
    Lynn
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    10 Apr 2006 09:51 PM
    The attendance at the last event of last year was 107. Three heats were run. Based on the attendance of the first event of the previous two years, I would have expected about 135 to 138 entrants. The Rolla FSAE team arriving with 14 drivers is a big aberration. No one would have expected that.

    The solution you were given always gets you out early. Run the first heat and you will always work the third. I realize what happened to you was very inconvenient for you, and we appreciate that you stuck around to work the fifth heat. But, this is going to happen as long as we run the way we do. The only way to really fix it so that you know when you will be finished is to go to class based heats and pre-registration only. And even then, you will get home late some days because we would rotate the classes through heats.
    christoc
    I'm an Admin
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    10 Apr 2006 10:08 PM
    Driver F got his ass kicked by RX-8s in Walnut Ridge, then had to drive home 200+ miles.
    Toxic
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    10 Apr 2006 10:21 PM
    Seth your just mad b/c I beat you in raw time[:O]

    Got to watch out for those cones![;)]
    Seth53
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    10 Apr 2006 10:40 PM
    Correction to my last post. I meant the first event of last year. Even with 138 people expected that is 46 cars in a heat if three heats are run. At three runs a car that is 138 runs per heat not counting re-runs. That is a long time to be in the sun. I understand the 3 heats for later events when the attendence is low, but why when it is the event with the historically biggest turnout? If you want to get a feeling for why I like to leave a little early some races just get up real early, drive around the interstaes for about 135 miles, run in the event, drive around for another 135 miles after the event then come talk to me. For the people that are going to tell me once again to get more involved in my region. I am now entering my third year in the SCCA and I am very interested in shadowing a chair or a chief for an event to see how easy/hard it is. If I like what I see I will do the job, if I don't like it I will shut up and let them do their job. I don't feel like a member of only two years that lives 135 miles away needs to be on any boards for the simple fact of not being able to attend the meetings. I started this thread somewhat out of anger, but more importantly so that the issue could be discussed so that the powers that be could take the criticism and apply it to future events. If region members don't bring up what was wrong with an event (along with what was good) things will never change due to all thinking everything is going smoothly.
    Seth53
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    10 Apr 2006 10:45 PM
    Toxic wrote:
    Seth your just mad b/c I beat you in raw time[:O]

    Got to watch out for those cones![;)]


    It was only 15 thousandths!!! What is that, like 3 inches? You should have been in STS2. It will be a great battle with you for raw times this year. Just remember I have Konis ans Sportlines being put on the car this week. Good Luck[;)]
    Dark_helmet
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    11 Apr 2006 12:26 AM
    [:P]But you also want to beat me. And hopefully I'll get faster when I figure out how to run with these tires.
    gidtup
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    11 Apr 2006 05:34 AM

    I don't think that it's that the groups of leaders of the solo don’t want to hear about your complaint, but they have already addressed heat sizes and making changes to them, worker problems, etc. They have spent countless volunteer hours on getting to a system that is best for most of the entrants, and is as fair as they can for most. Changing the size of the heats for each event is not a solution. It creates other problems.

    They try their best and work to please the majority of the group. I think the long drive of where you live is a challenge and everyone understands that. But, the majority of the people (the customers) live close and the current system works.

    As for being involved, get creative A lot of work can be done remotely if you contact the committee and tell them you want to be involved and are willing to do work that can be done remotely. (learn to do points, etc.) .

    Danno3
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    11 Apr 2006 07:02 AM
    Seth53 wrote:
    As to me running heat one and working heat three, that is the same heats that I would have been active in the heat choice that I was given when I arrived yesterday, so your solution is no better to the situation than my first action.


    Not following. If you look at the examples in the supps for a 3-heat, 4-heat, and 5-heat event, heat 1 drivers always work heat 3 regardless of how many heats there are. (Of course, the event chair can change this due to unusual circumstances, but I don't remember this ever happening.) I thought you were complaining about driving heat 3 and then being stuck working heat 5. (And I understand that this sucks, since you have a long drive home.) It appears that if you were willing to drive heat 1 (with the obvious drawbacks involved in that) you would be pretty much guaranteed to be able to leave after heat 3.

    Of course, driver D was on site for 11 hours yesterday, being the second person to show up and the second-to-last person to leave. So his supply of sympathy is limited. [:)]
    47CP
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    11 Apr 2006 07:14 AM

    I'm not sure that I totally understand the problem. (Though the discussion is always good)

    Driver A wants to maximize his competitveness by running a certain heat, but is reluctant to take the downside that comes with choosing that heat.

    Everything is racing is a compromise and heat selection follows the same rule. If your goal is to not spend all day at the event, heat 1 is always open. If your goal is to run your favorite/most competitive heat, then you'll have to compromise on your first goal.

    Your distance from the event site is a red herring and irrelevant to the masses.

    If we could keep attendance at the 160+ plus level, we could run by class and/or look at split day systems.

    DaveW

    Danno3
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    11 Apr 2006 07:31 AM
    By the way, if you think it's a mess when new heats are opened up as more people show up, you should see what happens when we have to combine heats that end up too small. That throws a kink into everybody's plans. Keeping the event at three or four heats until we know we can handle more is the best solution we've thought of so far to that problem. If you have a better solution, please bring it to the board (and that is not at all meant sarcastically).
    Toxic
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    11 Apr 2006 08:27 AM
    Seth53 wrote:
    Toxic wrote:
    Seth your just mad b/c I beat you in raw time[:O]

    Got to watch out for those cones![;)]


    It was only 15 thousandths!!! What is that, like 3 inches? You should have been in STS2. It will be a great battle with you for raw times this year. Just remember I have Konis ans Sportlines being put on the car this week. Good Luck[;)]


    Same to you. Another thing that keeps me out of STS2-rear sway bar. Have a couple of other braces that are going on to the car and if I decide to keep the car this year a call to Flying Miata for some springs and KYB's will be in order.

    The heat thing sucks, but I am not sure of what a better idea is going to be. If anyone has suggestions please bring them up to the solo board as Danno suggested.
    Bryan S
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    11 Apr 2006 09:03 AM
    47CP wrote:

    If we could keep attendance at the 160+ plus level, we could run by class and/or look at split day systems.

    I'm certian that the solo committee and the region would love to have to solve this problem. A consistant turnout in the 140 to 160 range would be great for competition and the program. It would require some creative and careful planning.

    Starting earlier would be difficult as many of us already arrive between 6:00 and 6:30 to get started assembling the event. There is no access to the site the night before as the drag racers use it until about 1:30AM when their season is in full swing. So that would mean that an event would last later, perhaps 5:00 or 6:00, assuming we'd want to design longer courses and give more than 3 runs.

    For that to happen we'd need to be able to split up the work duties so one crew sets up and another packs up, otherwise it will take about two events to burn out the core crew. Most people want to arrive, register run, work and go home. A commitment of about 4 hours if everything runs the way everyone would like. I'm happy to show up early, but I'm not interested in a 12 to 14 hour day so others can only spend 4 to 5 on site. The work needs to be shared. As it is now most of the early birds are also the last to leave.

    Kim Humphries
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    11 Apr 2006 10:10 AM

    I like to run a later heat and work on course (at a corner where I think I can learn something by observing good drivers) before I run. I got there early to get a heat 3 ticket (I suspected that we might go to 4 but that was not an option at the time that I arrived). When we went to 5 heats my plan was blown. Solution – work an extra heat (2) to get my track time in and then work 5 as well. I’m usually there for the day wanting to see the results. That didn’t happen either due to a technical problem but, they got on line darn quick as usual!

    Call me a Boy Scout. [8-|]At least the weather deities shined on us![A]

    mattg
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    11 Apr 2006 11:34 AM

    Early Worker??

    Seth53
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    11 Apr 2006 11:47 AM

    The fact of opening up more heats makes sense to me if more people show up than expected. Why were only three heats open at 7:30 in the morning? Everybody knew that this was going to be a huge turnout!!! For the people that think I had a short day on sunday I left my house at 5:30 AM and didn't get back to my Girlfriends house until 6:45 PM and she lives 25 miles from my house. That is almost a 14 hour day. Make it almost 14 and a half if I drove to my house. If I would have stayed to help pick up like I did many times last year it would have been a 15 hour day. This is supposed to be fun right? You say to drive heat 1 and work 3 so I am guaranteed to leave early. Some us like to try and be competetive. I shouldn't have to pick heat one due to the fact that organizers can't anticipate bigger turnouts.

    Seth53
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    11 Apr 2006 11:49 AM
    mattg wrote:

    Early Worker??

    So I should get there at 6 AM which means I need to get up at 3:30 AM. I don't know about you but that is way too early for a regional event.

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