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Last Post 19 Sep 2011 11:43 PM by  soloesp
Autocross is not Racing (a fun fur flyin debate)
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TOM GROSSMANN
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25 Aug 2006 11:52 AM

I knew I could depend on folks..........Keith is winning this debate as he has assailed someones manhood...........very very good.

Tom

Mrsideways
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25 Aug 2006 05:38 PM
mtbprelude wrote:
Mrsideways wrote:
I'll have you know I've been in 4th gear in an autox..... I Missed 2nd!


I make it to 5th with frightening regularity... but then I don't race one of those "ASP" cars with a super high redline in a stock class [:P]



That and I can't seem to find 3rd gear on an autocross course.


No no that wasn't the GT3 that was a miata years ago.
In the STU M3 I managed to find 2nd going for 4th (yes in a slalom, that was an awesome autox). That was an expensive day.

You drive a Miata... Finding 3rd gear in a miata is like picking lottery numbers. Back in Bob's SM2 Miata I found that short shifting slightly increased your odds of finding 3rd instead of 5th!

But to add fuel to the debate... I never had trouble finding 3rd on a race track! Yet in Autox 3rd was PITA.... maybe that says something about Autoxing being slightly harder ;p
TOM GROSSMANN
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25 Aug 2006 06:27 PM

Well Mrsideways if you were on a proper road course you would only need 4th and 5th...............of course 3rd was a PITA at and Auotcross................3rd gear at 18 MPH is what 1500 RPMs :)

there we go this should keep this sillyness alive.

Tom

Shoe
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26 Aug 2006 04:14 PM

I think I'm getting closer to the answer...We have to define parameters...

1. Can't drink before or during (after okay - need to clear dust, oil fumes etc.)

2. There should be shifting (more than one shift preferred)

3. There must be an opportunity to get hit in the head (during competition)

4. No matter what, if you drive a Miata people look at you funny...(ask Steve)

Dale[H]

Driven
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27 Aug 2006 05:36 AM

my three gripes about autocrossing:

- handicaps? PAX = useless... you drove your car slower. the end. I don't care if it's stock... with it's $1500 aftermarket shocks, $1000 hoosiers, and $300 muffler... just because you bring a knife to a gun fight doesn't mean you MIGHT win if you had brought a gun. likewise, your HS stock may have put a nice time on the board... but my DM car still went faster.

- working? Cone fetchers should be hired... bump the price $5, get a 15 passenger van, hit up Home Depot first thing in the morning, grab a Spanish translator and have at it. Real racing doesn't have their drivers work corners.

- So, you're telling me, I have to stand out in the sun for two hours, chasing down and reseting cones that were knocked over by over-zealous drivers... and i have to PAY $40 to do it? Oh...what a bargain!! But wait, i get to drive my own car for maybe ten minutes really fast. This is why i can never understand why people take autocrossing seriously (like, get mad when they get beat or someone doesn't follow the rules to a Tee)... come to think of it, i don't know why anyone gets bothered by any kind of amateur racing... we're out here to have fun :)

but, what do i know... by the term defined by tom, I don't race...i just do time trials (which does involve passing, just not for position). and the autocrossing i do do is infrequent as of late.

ps: i enjoy both autocrossing and time trials... i like to drive fast and do it legally... these events allow me to do it. I'd love to do rally, but don't have a vehicle i want to subject to such punishment. now, if i can only get my alternator fixed, i can return to racing....or

David Lehman
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27 Aug 2006 10:04 AM

1) Your ego has been bruised one too many times by a H stock Mini

2) You are too old and frail to chase cones, or maybe just out of shape

3) OMG---i agree with you just out there to have fun (hell---that's why I post this crap)

4) I am sick of the Vegas strip tourist trap. Next time I make it out, could I crash with you ?

5) Any local hookers you know that do a 50% off Sunday night special ?

thanks

Highrev1
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27 Aug 2006 02:33 PM

Tom,

You said "there is no planning for autocross you have no idea what the course is prior to arriving...the winner will be determined as of the result from 3 laps...that's a test of driving skill"

So are you also saying that an autox'er is a more skilled driver? Cause we have to get it done in only 3 "laps" Just playing advocate :p

knutz
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27 Aug 2006 09:17 PM

Now that I know what side of the fence to be on [thanks Tom], I have to re-iterate that I didn't start in auto-x untill I was too physicly disabled to race competatively anymore.

It really is hard to call a motorsports competition with almost zero chance of getting hurt, a race. To that extent, I.O.M. would have to be a Super Race, or something along those lines.

Auto-x has me mostly in 1st and second. I have yet to see third in an auto-x. Second gear can take me up to 75 MPH, so I will occationally use it on the track, in a really tight situation[;)]. I think most folks can draw their own conclusion what set of gears are more fun to use.

Auto-X= low budget, low risk entertainment

Wheel to wheel= high adrenalin, true excitement racing

LoneGunman
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27 Aug 2006 09:53 PM

Here is an oldie but a goodie link...

http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm

Driven
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27 Aug 2006 10:24 PM

David Lehman wrote:
1) Your ego has been bruised one too many times by a H stock Mini

Never. Even when I drove a 94 Civic DX auto... didn't happen. :)

[quote]2) You are too old and frail to chase cones, or maybe just out of shape

albeit true (the latter)... my state of activity isn't what drives my dislike for the basic premise of PAYING MONEY to WORK.

toby911gt1
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28 Aug 2006 03:44 PM

I always though that autocrossing is when the rule book is heavier then your car and racing was what rule book that’s just a list of suggestions.

TOM GROSSMANN
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28 Aug 2006 03:59 PM

Kam is really just mad becuase he is shagging cones becuase his announcing is more "stand up act" then announcing times (gee I've never done that )...........because some folks are actually serious they think he is. By the way he's at Ceasers Tuesday and Thursdays 8 and 11.

Tom

SpencerLv
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28 Aug 2006 04:39 PM
LoneGunman wrote:

Here is an oldie but a goodie link...

http://www.nsxfiles.com/Pyramid_of_speed.htm



Seems like a fairly elitest veiw of things. and one that favors velocity vs compitition. Given that wheel to wheel racing is compitition, Just as Autocross is compitition, but Open track isnt.
mattm
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28 Aug 2006 07:42 PM
If autocrossing were any easier, they'd call it road racing. [:)]
Bentai
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28 Aug 2006 10:26 PM
I will stand by and say that Autocross is racing until Mazdaspeed Motorsports decides that Autocross is not racing and I therefore no longer qualify for a parts discount. :D
Driven
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28 Aug 2006 10:56 PM

mattm wrote:
If autocrossing were any easier, they'd call it road racing.

Did you miss page one?

LoneGunman
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29 Aug 2006 12:02 AM

Here is my "less than humble" opinions...

street / freeway racers - killers of babies and their mothers. scum of the earth.

Drag racers - Hi cost, lower skill - build it to be fast and it is. Driver skill is second.

Autocrossers - Lo cost, high skill. - Winners are technical drivers. Take any car and go as fast as possible around the course.

Open Trackers - medium cost, lo skill. - I've never seen so many unskilled drivers spend so much money so I can compete cheaply. Please register for an Open Track event today.

Time Trialers - medium/high cost, medium skill - Open trackers keep the costs down so we can take the skills we learned in autocross and apply it to 120+mph turns at Americas great Road Courses. License now required in some organizations.

Wheel to Wheel Racing - High cost, High Skill - shell out big bucks on a car, safety equipment, licenses, entry fees, trailer, pit crew's lunch and beers, repairs, repair crew's lunch and beers just to go around the track trying to beat the other guys that probably spent more than you did.

mattm
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29 Aug 2006 03:14 PM

Driven wrote:
mattm wrote:
If autocrossing were any easier, they'd call it road racing.
Did you miss page one?

No. The whole thread is for humor. I'll click the "Insert Smiley" for those that are humor challenged.

The quote was on a bunch of t-shirts in the New England Region a bunch of years ago. Funny, the RR crowd had trouble with the humor, too. [:)] Steve Ostrovitz may have been the author (autocrosser and road racer).

Art_Whitton
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29 Aug 2006 03:52 PM
Tom, whether you're racing against the clock or another driver, you're still racing. End of story.

If road racers have to justify their ridiculous budgets by considering themselves the only 'racers', then fine - we'll never cross paths anyway and they can enjoy their delusional little world.

Of course, I'll soon be moving to the centre of dirt track oval country, and may have to modify the Z a little, but one way or another, I'll still be racing.

Racing comes from the thrill and the challenge, not the cost. And if you want to debate this in person, I'll race you to the bottom of a pint (total cost less than $5, unless you're a road racer, then you'll want to pay $15 for the same thing).

I'm glad I could settle this for all of you. [:P]
Carguy7
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29 Aug 2006 05:47 PM

Racing the clock or racing a competitor is still racing. The danger factor is different but both beat standing around watching.

In addition to the Isle of Man and Rallies, Pike's Peak is another real road race.

I get into 4th gear a lot with my Westfield 7 but I start in 2nd so I have a head start on everybody!

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