G-LOC Brakes
PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 08 Sep 2008 09:07 PM by  Steve Hoelscher
Ford E350 making noises - Really!
 12 Replies
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
skisoloii
New Member
New Member
Posts:49


--
06 Nov 2006 04:18 PM

    I have a 24 foot class C Ford E350 Motorhome, with which I tow a moderate amount - it used to tow much more. In the last couple of seasons, it has developed a rattle sound under acceleration - "crowded throttle" which is just before a downshift. I flushed and changed the fluid in the tranny, checked the U-joints. Does anyone know of any resonances in the driveline which could account for this, or do you think I'm about to spring for a tranny rebuild?

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Dave (PPPPPP)

    South Lyon, MI

    Steve Hoelscher
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:831


    --
    07 Nov 2006 01:36 PM
    skisoloii wrote:

    I have a 24 foot class C Ford E350 Motorhome, with which I tow a moderate amount - it used to tow much more. In the last couple of seasons, it has developed a rattle sound under acceleration - "crowded throttle" which is just before a downshift. I flushed and changed the fluid in the tranny, checked the U-joints. Does anyone know of any resonances in the driveline which could account for this, or do you think I'm about to spring for a tranny rebuild?

    Any help would be appreciated

    Dave, it would help greatly to know what model year and engine. Or as an alternative, do you have an O/D cancel button on the end of the shift lever?

    That will tell me what transmission it has. The noise may be the torque converter clutch shuddering but I have to make as assumption until I know if it even has a torque converter clutch.

    skisoloii
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:49


    --
    10 Nov 2006 06:33 PM

    Been offline for a couple of days..

    1994 460 E350. - Yese, it's got the OD button on the shifter.

    Thanks Steve.

    preparedcivic
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    10 Nov 2006 07:37 PM

    Dave:

    IIRC, the '94 chassised E350 460/E4OD Class C I had for 2.5 years did the same thing the entire time I owned it. Kind of sounded like a chuggle/whistle right as the kick-down into second began. The noise was almost instantaneous; there and gone. No drivetrain shudder though. The torque converter in this tranny does stay locked up in second when it does do a downshift to that gear.

    I never thought much of the noise. I thought it actually was some sort of intake resonance.


    skisoloii
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:49


    --
    10 Nov 2006 08:26 PM

    This noise is one you can stay in forever, if you don't put your foot into it enough to downshift. Easiest condition to get it is a slight uphill, and keep it in cruising gear anywhere from 30MPH through 80MPH, looking to keep a constant speed. It is a very severe rattle, which has only occurred in the last couple of years. I'm afraid of a severe breakage on a long trip with Sig other, 2 small children, and a dog along for the ride.. Rattle, with a bit of a "Jangle" to it. Vibration as well.

    Dave

    [|-)][|-)][^o)][&]

    skisoloii
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:49


    --
    10 Nov 2006 08:44 PM
    What would it take to replace a TCC? Is it a big deal? I should probably look it up in my Haynes after I get off of work - doh! I'm off now... L8r [Beer][H]
    Steve Hoelscher
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:831


    --
    11 Nov 2006 10:45 AM
    skisoloii wrote:

    This noise is one you can stay in forever, if you don't put your foot into it enough to downshift. Easiest condition to get it is a slight uphill, and keep it in cruising gear anywhere from 30MPH through 80MPH, looking to keep a constant speed. It is a very severe rattle, which has only occurred in the last couple of years. I'm afraid of a severe breakage on a long trip with Sig other, 2 small children, and a dog along for the ride.. Rattle, with a bit of a "Jangle" to it. Vibration as well.

    Dave, I can't be absolute unless I drive it but I am quite sure this is in fact a torque converter shudder. The transmission in your E350 is an E4OD (Electronic, 4 speed, Over Drive) and it has a locking torque converter. The shudder comes from the converter clutch slipping slightly under load. You description of the noise/vibration and when it happens fits perfectly with the classic symptoms.

    The cause can start with the transmission fluid getting old and loosing its resilliancy. This causes the clutch to shudder (the fluid has a cushioning agent in it that dissapates with age and heat) on engagement. So every engagement results in a little slip that slightly burns the clutch. Over time the slip/shudder gets worse and burns the clutch more and more until it slips constantly and burns up completely. You are on your way to a major transmission failure.

    Since you have changed the fluid already and it had no effect, I would assume that the clutch is burnt enough that the torque converter will have to be replaced. I should also note that another cause of this problem is a loss of converter charge from the transmission's pump. If this is the case, a new pump will be required. However, as long as this has been going on I don't suspect the pump.

    Changing the torque converter requires pulling the transmission. You may not want to do this yourself since the E4OD was Ford's biggest automatic. Its quite heavy and bulky. You would need a proper transmission jack (do not try to balance it on a floor jack) and a way to get the front of the van high enough to get under it and the transmission out. You will want to change the front seal while you are there.

    If you have a shop to the work figure on $300+ for the converter and another $250 to $350 labor.

    Any questions, let me know.

    skisoloii
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:49


    --
    14 Nov 2006 05:15 PM

    Thanks Steve. Its a good thing it is winter in Michigan... [Insert pic of hell freezing over here]

    Dave

    Steve Hoelscher
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:831


    --
    14 Nov 2006 05:35 PM
    skisoloii wrote:

    Thanks Steve. Its a good thing it is winter in Michigan... [Insert pic of hell freezing over here]

    HA! Why I don't live in Michigan. I guess its not a good time to tell you about the weather here then huh... I went to the beach sunday. Got a little sunburn. It was cold enough yesterday that I decided to wear a shirt for my morning bike ride. Not necessary today though. [H]

    jhereg
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    25 Aug 2008 12:11 AM

    stumbled on this thread, please let me bring up my issue and ask for advice.

    Got a 2001 e-350 with a 5.2 engine, started slipping a bit in reverse, later that day It was slipping really

    bad leaving a jobsite. It's always had a shudder when hitting 40-55 since I got it. but this time, I knew it was bad,

    made it to the nearest transmission shop and parked it just in time

    for it to pour out fluid all over the ground, seemed like a blown front seal. They opened it up and contacted

    me saying it needed new torque convertor, tranny rebuild, and it was going to be 3200.00 That's with

    upgraded heavy duty torque convertor. (700) Not much I could do as I needed it for business, so I figured

    120,000 hard miles doing heavy loads (I do tile work and major loads all the time) cost me.

    Now, after doing the work, they tried to tell me that my timing was really bad, and if I didn't get a tune-up

    within 200 miles they would void my warantee. They wanted to do it for $500. Said I needed new spark boots

    too. A buddy of mine picked up dealer spec'd spark plugs (they were pretty bad) and the boots looked brand

    new, didn't need them. I called the shop to let them know I did the tune-up and I expected them to honor

    their warantee. the shudder is still there, even worse than it was before. Hits

    right at 40-55mph. gone when I step on it to downshift. Can another shop tell me for sure if these

    guys DID actually rebuild the tranny, and upgrade the torque convertor, or if they just redid the seal and

    ripped me off? What's that going to run me? How do I deal with the shop that did the work.

    Steve Hoelscher
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:831


    --
    02 Sep 2008 10:19 PM
    jhereg wrote:
    the shudder is still there, even worse than it was before. Hits

    right at 40-55mph. gone when I step on it to downshift. Can another shop tell me for sure if these

    guys DID actually rebuild the tranny, and upgrade the torque convertor, or if they just redid the seal and

    ripped me off? What's that going to run me? How do I deal with the shop that did the work.

    OK, so you have had a shudder between 40 and 55 and its still there after the rebuild. If it was slipping in reverse, it puked fluid out the front (from severely overheating) and you had 100K miles on it, it likely needed an overhaul. Still $3200 is steep for an E4OD overhaul, no matter where you are.

    I think its likely that the 40-55 mph shudder is a missfire and not the transmission or torque converter. Its very common and often difficult to diagnose as to which is the cause. It is normal for a shop to void a transmission warranty if diagnosed engine problems are not corrected. It is entirely possible for an engine problem to cause damage to the transmission if not repaired. Since you replaced the plugs and had the transmission rebuilt I think its likely that the plug wires are the cause. They are a common cause of part throttle missfires when the torque converter clutch applies (right at the 45-55 mph range). So even if they look OK they are likely your problem.

    I could replace the wires and see if that solves the shudder. If so, take it by the transmission shop so they can sign off on the repair. If the shudder is still there have a general repair garage do futher diagnosis. I should note that an '01 E350's OBD2 system should be able to detect the missfire and set a missfire DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code). A good shop will be able to read the codes to verify if its a missfire or not. If its been missfiring since you had it, and it wasn't the torque converter, then there would be a missfire code set.

    jhereg
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    07 Sep 2008 12:21 AM

    Right-O. Yep, was 2 bad coils, causeing misfires on 2 cylinders. All cleared up now.

    Now its running so smooth I have to look into fixing my front suspension. Thanks!

    Steve Hoelscher
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:831


    --
    08 Sep 2008 09:07 PM

    Cool. Glad that you solved the problem. Hope I was of some help.

    So what's wrong with the front end?

    You are not authorized to post a reply.


    Woodhouse Motorsports SPS 88x31 Button
    G-Loc Button Vorshlag 88x31 Button
    Leroy Engineering Micro Button Sunoco 88x31 Button

    Advertise on SCCAForums.com and reach thousands of visitors per day!

    SafeRacer FREE SHIPPING over $99

    Shop for Pirelli tires at Tire Rack. blank




    Sunoco Bottom 468x60 Banner