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Last Post 11 Jun 2007 05:42 PM by  krysd
????V8Stockcar Races????
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krysd
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23 Apr 2007 08:51 PM

    I just noticed in the new issue of “SportsCar” that Tony Ave set a new track record for the short course at Sebring at the “V8Stockcar races” held Feb 25th at Sebring!!! First of all congratulations to Tony Ave on a spectacular run, the car looked like it was on rails, but imagine my surprise when I found out that I had attended a “V8Stock Car Race”, I was under the impression that I was attending an SCCA event put on by the Central Florida Region SCCA, part of the SEDIV and featuring the SARRC series, so I am curious, Lee, How much money did you spend on sanctioning fees, did you provide insurance like SCCA does? And how in the world did you recruit all of the officials and course marshals? And what about the cost of track rental, it must have been expensive. Well, what ever the answer, you (Or SOMEONE) did a hell of a job.

    I am posting this on the V8stock car site as well as others, it will be interesting to see if it stays up.

    Krys Dean

    V8racecar
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    16 May 2007 04:34 PM

    Your post has obviously made a change in the mindset of the reporters. They are now giving credit to the SCCA and its operating regions. I wonder if V8stockcar actually does anything for the SCCA regions and its workers ? Maybe V8stockcar should be funding the socials or some other means of financial support to the regions. Do the members volunteer to be cornerworkers when they are not racing ?

    cbramey
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    17 May 2007 12:57 AM

    if you like racing you better get behind those guys and support their organization, regardless of any questions you raise. They are the only hope for racing, as we as an organization have just about destroyed any possibility of racing becoming a fun, attainable sport that makes sense.

    despite all the good people and friends in the organization, the SCCA as a whole is the single worst thing to ever happen to motorsports, the single worst institution supporting any activity I am aware of, and the main reason road racing has never caught on in the US.

    This V8 stock car outfit is the last hope.

    V8racecar
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    20 May 2007 10:14 PM

    The last hope ? SCCA worst thing ? Maybe you did not know that the V8stockcar events are run at SCCA events. Maybe you did not know you have to be a member of the SCCA to race at V8stockcar events. If the SCCA did not exist V8stockcar would not exist. V8stockcar does nothing to share in the workload of the event. Did you ever see its promoters standing at a corner waving a yellow flag so you did not run into a dangerous situation. Did you ever see V8stockcar sponsor the food or beverage at a social for the workers ? They need to share the workload, fund socials, be truthful, and most of all give credit to the people in the SCCA that make it happen. Consider this constructive critism.

    bosco
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    21 May 2007 05:57 PM

    Constructive Criticism? HARDLY! More like the latest pot shots from a few, very, very few.

    First of All, V8 StockCar was created to be a for fun, points series, to encourage more folks to compete in big bore, V8, tube frame cars. It is not trying to become a professional series. It charges nothing to competitors but has given them a chance to compete against ever growing numbers and maybe get a little notice for their efforts. Most are having a ball competing in the series. Look at the growth. V8 StockCar has never claimed to be a sanctioning body, nor implied it. From day one our website has featured the SCCA log directly under ours on the home page, directly under that has always been the SARRC logo. We have always had the "getting started" page which tells you that to compete you must become an SCCA member and licensed driver. The page has excellent links to the required SCCA forms. We deliver news about other SCCA races and other sanctioning bodies as well.

    V8 StockCar has brought many new member/competitors to the SCCA ranks, many who come from oval track racing and had no interest in SCCA until Lee, started promoting the circle track cars in SCCA. New members, means more dollars to region through dues, entry fees, donations to workers programs etc.

    V8 StockCar has proven to be major help in increasing the numbers in the SARRC GT group, many of our competitors are there to compete with V8SC and SARRC is just a bonus, some feel the other way around. It is, however a win-win for both.

    About one year ago I started helping Lee with PR and marketing the series, all PR has been written by me. Lee has never told me what to write. On a few occasions, but not too many, I may have neglected to mention SCCA. All the Ads that I have written regarding on how to compete with the series mentioned that we run in conjunction with SCCA and must be licensed by SCCA.

    With regard to socials etc, we have hosted socials, invited race workers and officials and supplied the beverages (beer and soft drinks) and on some occasions food. My partner and I have personally given to worker schools, social funds etc. and I am sure others in our group have done the same Some of guys instruct at driver schools. Could we do more, probably, and so could others.

    Those interested may note that the above plaintives have never taken any of the other series, of which there are many, that compete within SCCA to task for these perceived lapses.

    I believe that their accusations are without merit and are the result of a conflict between a couple of folks and Lee. It is worth noting that both championed the series until a few months ago, and both are principals in a professional series that is trying to gain traction. I personally wish that series well and firmly believe we can help each other.

    I hope we can put this to rest and all start working for the betterment of GT racing.

    Robert "Bosco" Logsdon

    New Smyrna Beach, Fl. 386 717 0745

    V8racecar
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    23 May 2007 12:19 PM

    Robert, Thanks for the reply but another press release was not needed. You have an answer for everything, almost like an obsession. As noted in the above posting, V8stockcar is doing a better job in recognizing the SCCA regions and workers for their efforts. The change is welcomed by many for whatever reason. There are many unanswered questions and myths surrounding V8stockcar but that all is personal between individuals, not things that need to be discussed in an open forum. Sure, V8stockcar has many positive aspects and accomplishments that are mostly the work of the PR department. However, I must refer to the above post by CBramey, nothing personal, but this guy like many do not have a clue about the relationship between the SCCA and V8stockcar. Many think V8stockcar is a sanctioned series that stands on its own, intentional, probally not, but many SCCA folks are insulted by the arrogance of a few. Hopefully, this will pass in the near future for as you say the betterment of GT racing.

    The way Lee reports the race results and entry list is misleading, and for what reason, why not report the truth ? Maybe you can convince your partner to post factual information and let the series grow with merit, not hype.

    Can racers enter themselves as entrants on V8stockcar ? Can the results be factual, not a complete list of everyone that was at the track ? Can the website be updated for the car class requirements and rules if they exist ? Can the V8stockcar drivers page be updated to something more recent because many drivers listed do not have the same cars anymore and some do not even race any longer ? These are some of the questions and things that make people scratch their head about the validity of V8stockcar. Hopefully, this helps you see your series from another perspective.

    GT1Vette
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    24 May 2007 06:35 PM

    I fought the urge to stay away from this topic but unfortunately I cannot resist any longer:

    I am a participant in the V8StockCar series and I support what they/we are doing to build interest in Ground Pounder road racing. The movement started in SEDIV but it's spreading throughout the country as folks in MWDIV and NEDIV (actually WDC region) are very interested in what we're doing here. There's serious discussion of a GTA East/West Shootout (GTA started on the West Coast) at HPT next summer. If if comes to pass, it will be due in large part to the interest in stock car road racing generated by the publicity of V8StockCar. And yes, I'm FULLY aware of the difference between GTA and V8SC.

    I've been racing big cars of one persuasion or another for over thirty years with a modest level of success. I'm heavily involved in the organizational aspects of SCCA events (and NCCC before that), also with a modest level of success. I'm a teacher by training and an engineer by trade and mindset, which means I lack the "salesman" gene necessary to make the really big bucks in life. But I'm also smart enough to know that part of promoting something (selling it, if you will) is allowing people to see their name in print and making it seem like a big deal. I can't do what Lee and Bosco are doing because I don't have the right mindset, but what they are doing is working because more and more people are showing up at the track! Is V8StockCar using SCCA to facilitate their agenda (which is getting more people interested in road racing)? Sure. Are V8StockCar drivers giving back to the racing community? Yes, yes we are. Don't belittle my contribution just because of a sticker on my car.

    Can V8StockCar do a better job? Certainly. Can SCCA do a better job? MOST certainly. Can Butch Kummer do a better job? Damn straight, he can. But the bottom line is we're ALL talking about promoting affordable, fair, and safe racing in cars that are just a friggin' hoot to drive! Taking pot shots at each other on the internet ain't gonna do sh!t to help that, particularly when that criticism is coming from people that don't have the courage of their convictions to even sign their real name.

    I'm done here...

    Butch Kummer, Taxi-cab driver and proud of it!

    V8racecar
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    25 May 2007 10:56 AM

    I am not adverse to V8stockcar.com, V8stockcar series, or any of its followers. I am adverse about the way results and entries are reported by the screenname V8stockcar. Come on, report the truth because just building hype does not help the series grow on merit. I find it hard to believe many of the people involved in V8stockcar the series will support this type of reporting to the racing community. Pop shots were not intended, but speaking out for the betterment of GT racing was the purpose. Critism by definition is to pick out faults. Can V8stockcar accept anonymous critism and build on it ?

    Mr. Kummer, Courage and convictions, you forgot coward. Being anonymous is sometimes a necessary evil to be able to really speak your mind. It's alot like a truth serum you may call beer. Posting on the internet will cause them to listen to the critism, if it is accepted as constructive is the question.

    GT1Vette
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    25 May 2007 12:04 PM

    Mr. "V8racecar":

    We all have our buttons that manage to get pushed. Yours is "factual" posting of results, but obviously most people don't care about that (based on the lack of posts on this topic). If I want factual results I go to MyLaps.com and get not only the real results but also what each person's best lap was. And if I happened to run that particular race I can also use MyLaps to find not only my lap times but those of a particular competitor that I might be interested in.

    Do I agree with everything that the V8StockCar group posts? No. But since I'm not willing to take on additional responsibility of promoting stock car road racing myself, I choose to put up with those annoyances. If I feel strongly enough about something I'll get with Lee and/or Bosco directly and suggest there may be a different way of doing things.

    What I figured out last night while thinking about this (so thank you for that insight) is that one of my buttons is people that criticize anonymously. There are at least three people I know that COULD be you, so your unwillingness to reveal your identity has now caused me to have suspicions and change the way I'll behave around all three of them. You can make an arguments that such thinking indicates a short-coming in my personality and I wouldn't disagree with you, but the fact remains that I feel that way regardless. If you're going to slam somebody publicly (and yes, regardless of whether you think they are constructive or not your comments ARE a slam) then you need to have the courage to sign your name.

    As irritating as Matt Weisberg is over on ITForums.com, at least he's willing to sign his name...

    Butch Kummer, GTA Monte Carlo #57, SCCA member #76908

    V8racecar
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    26 May 2007 09:48 AM
    The topic here is inaccurate reporting and hype, will it be changed, or will the false reports continue ?
    GT1Vette
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    26 May 2007 10:41 PM

    Mr. (or Ms - we really don't know, do we?) V8racecar,

    YOU are the only one that appears to have any problem with the reporting. Perhaps it would help if the V8StockCar classes were "redbirds", "bluebirds, and "yellowbirds"? Although the V8 class names are similar to those run by the SCCA, they are simply not the same. The SCCA rules are pretty precise about what constitutes a GT-1, SPO, or GTA car, but the V8StockCar guidelines are much more nebulous. Does that mean those people race any differently?

    In addition, the points keeping (and race reporting) method employed by the V8 Series rewards those that show up regardless of how many laps they manage to complete during the race. It's true that some folks that are/were mentioned in the results posted by V8StockCar (who is generally Lee Arnold, by the way - I don't know if Bosco posts using that ID or not) would not have been classified as finishers (or even starters) under SCCA rules, but does that mean they don't exist? For the Mother's Day weekend at VIR Jay Marshall towed from the Tampa area while Ron (Burr) Keith brought his car all the way from Kansas SPECIFICALLY because that "Double SARRC / Double MARRS event hosted by the North Carolina Region SCCA in association with the Washington DC Region SCCA" (did I give proper credit to SCCA and the individual regions?) was ALSO a round on the V8StockCar series. Both of them broke on the Friday practice day and were unable to participate on Saturday or Sunday. Steve Magowen ran the first qualifying session on Saturday morning and then spent the rest of the weekend in the hospital. Does the fact that none of them completed even 5 laps during either race mean they don't deserve mention for being there? Does V8StockCar have a different way of keeping up with points and a use a different classing system than SCCA does? Sure. Does that mean one is any better than the other? Certainly not.

    It's obvious to anyone bothering to read your bleatings (I borrowed that, but I like it) is that the real issue is that you, V8racecar, have a personal problem with Lee Arnold. Perhaps you've tried to resolve things on a one-on-one basis and have failed, but you certainly aren't going to resolve it here.

    My problem, on the other hand, is that I probably know you and may even work with you in one capacity or another within SCCA. Should I ever find out who you are, rest assured that any respect I might have had for you has taken a major, MAJOR hit.

    OK, now I really am done here...

    Murf
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    26 May 2007 11:34 PM

    My name is John Murphy and I have raced with NHRA/NASCAR/SCCA and other series starting in 1965. I agree with Butch and it's easy to take pot shots hiding who you are. All parties, workers & racers need to work together to correct/improve the sport. In fighting does not help anyone. Every series can be improved and if you have a better way then address that series. If you don't want to help and you would rather take pot shots from the cheap seats then you can do that but it will not help change the system. What is it you would like to see changed? State the issue and the desired change.

    John Murphy

    V8racecar
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    27 May 2007 09:25 PM

    Mr. Murphy, You ask for me to state the issue and the desired change. It is very simple. V8stockcar has been asked numberous times by different sources to report the truth. Lee has not listened to any advise from his friends or peers. He misinforms everyone about his entry car counts, results of competition, and many other problems exist between him and other people.

    Maybe V8stockcar the series has grown so rapidly that Lee is out of touch with reality. Maybe he should pass it on to others more qualified to take the series to the next level.

    Mr. Kummer, Thank you for the discussion, although I must disagree in your defense of V8stockcar's reporting methods.

    krysd
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    28 May 2007 11:20 AM

    My name is Krys Dean, I posted the origional message that started this thread, that is the ONLY POST I have made here and this will be the last post I will make on this subject. I made my feelings clear in my origional post and I have seen nothing since that has changed my mind, The one thing everyone needs to be aware of is that I post under my own name, no one elses, I had a pseudoname once and it simply felt wrong, I got rid of it. If I post something about V8Stockcar, Lee, Bosco, Butch, or God Almighty, it will be posted under my name, I agree with Butch anonymous posting is not a good way to go. That being said, I have spent far more time on this subject than it deserves and will not address it again, I doubt that anyone needs me to restate the obvious.

    Krys Dean

    West Palm Beach, FL

    scaryterry85
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    28 May 2007 03:15 PM

    Well my name is Terry Giles - I unfortunately was one of the "few" that was suspected to be involved with all of these posting over the past few months - I took it upon myself to call Bosco at one point and tell him point blank it was not me - everything I have ever posted ANYWHERE - has my real name or scaryterry85 signed to it. I told him I said all I had to say about Lee (personally) to his face and not until Lee decided he would go around and bash me for some stupid engine deal that he felt "screwed on" - did I respond any further - to wit: I posted the whole story on a few sites and left it at that - with the exception that I had told Bosco and Lee both that they needed to get "permission" to use some driver's names in conjunction with V8 series or maybe face some unhappy folks - which they ignored and then they did (face some unhappy people). But that is their problem - not mine - because I don't care.

    I was around in the beginning of the V8 movement - Lee and I were competitors on track and friends off - up until he and I had a "personal issues" between us - I was automatically entered into V8 Series races just by virtue of "showing up to race SCCA".....and that was OK - anything I could do to help him with building a series - because I believed that what his initial intentions were (to build car counts and draw more stock car fans to road racing) was a good idea - and I support those efforts fully. What is between Lee and I is between Lee and I - period. He can't seem to get by it - so he has ex-communicated me from his series and I am no longer "eligible" to run for his prizes - which is no big deal - because I never got anything I had won in the past anyhow.

    The only issue that glares at me that people keep speaking about is V8's stealing the thunder of the hard work of the SCCA - it looks like Bosco is trying to remedy that - good job. As far as reporting accuracy - I think that is subjective - I lapped the GT1 field at the Double SARRC at Roebling - the guy that Lee awarded the GT win to was 3 laps down to me....Lee states that it is "his" prizes he is giving away - I would beg to differ - it is the sponsor's prizes and they want fairness and equality - Lee you are not providing that - but again that is for you to address next year when you are seeking sponsors who may be unhappy with your current method of "eligibility".

    So the only thing that I have said in regards to V8s since my "engine post" - was said directly to Lee at Roebling Road - when he passed me under a yellow (actually 3 of them) wherein I said to him - "you should be leading your group by example - what you did is wrong - just like not telling your new guys coming into road racing (SCCA) they need to read and know the GCR as it relates to GT1 cars - Lee you have sold cars to people and sent them to the track telling them their cars are legal for GT1 - they are not in many cases - tell the truth - it is about accountability and credibility. Encourage your group to race clean - watch the flags and be accountable for their on track actions - for Bosco to say you guys are doing everything you can to promote the sport is a half truth - you need to do it all - the right way. Tell these guys if they are to be a part of your series - they need to abide by the rules of the GCR and the acceptable on track conduct as required by the SCCA - I see what Butch is doing in GTA - he is to be commended he and the whole ad-hoc committee - they are setting a rules package and appear to be encouraging proper conduct and attitude - but Butch is known for his understanding and commitment to the rules and to racing in general - he is a good leader. GTA racers are lucky to have someone of his experience and knowledge as the "leader" of this growing group of racers.

    I - like Krys do not think that bashing V8 is the answer and I believe it is not good for the sport - what I do believe is that Lee and Bosco need to make sure they are doing everything they can to make their group - responsible and accountable - you guys need to lead by example - and passing under the yellow and thanking me for not following through with the formal protest is hardly leading by example - I did not follow through on the protest because of the bad blood between us - you are already bad mouthing me to everyone that will listen - I could only imagine your line of BS had I followed through - but Lee you were wrong and you need to clean up V8 - give credit where credit is due and realize your original plan was to augment and enhance SCCA racing - not detract from it or lessen the appeal of the prestige of the SARRC series as a SE Division Championship - this is nothing I haven't said to your face - but rest assured I have not said anything behind your back - everyone that knows me knows that if I have something to say - you never have to "wonder" what is on my mind.

    Lee - Bosco - you guys have some great drivers racing with your group - help the new guys get up to sped the right way - make them learn and understand the rules and on track conduct - you are guilty of bringing all of this unwanted attention and controversy to your group - and you are the only ones that can fix it - and for the sake of big bore racing I hope you do. So spend less time pointing the finger and spreading rumor over conspiricies and back stabbing and adress the concerns of the people who have stepped up - a series can live or die by the conduct of the promoter - accountability, honesty and integrity and apply these simple principles to all that you do and promote and you will grow your series the right way for the beneft of all who love big bore racing - that is all I have to say on the matter as I think it all has gotten far too much "air time".

    Jeff Bailey
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    29 May 2007 02:38 AM

    First I need to apologize to the racing community for my participation in the anonymous Payne Diaz internet postings. I made a bad decesion in the way dirty laundry was spread throughout our community. For this I am truly sorry. I have lost one of my ( I considered ) very best friends I respected as a leader in my career and most importantly someone I called my friend. Another one of my well respected friends said " either he will accept your apology.....or he wont". That is something I will have to live with because our friendship rest in his hands. With that said, Bosco I am sincere in my apology.

    I participated in the 2006 season of V8stockcar in the V8GT1 class and promoted the series on numberous websites. I enjoyed the competition and spirit around the series. I looked forward to the many contingencies available to offset the cost of racing. I promoted these contingincies to many you reading this message. That is where my issues with Lee began. I received my first HRP Hard Charger $125 certificate at the first race in Sebring in which Lee was happy to take a photo of me and the certificate. I won two more certificates but it was like pulling teeth to get them. Lee had about a half-inch thick stack of these certificates when he finally gave me my other two Daytona. Lee never advised me of the Goodyear contingency rules but only said you need to be on Goodyears to win tires. I thought I was winning tires at his events. Lee posted my tire winnings on his website. I asked for my winnings throughout the season but for some reason or another never received them. The correct rules were never passed on by Lee to the competitors during the season......the rules were given out after the Payne Diaz internet postings.... after the season ended. I do not hold Goodyear responsible for this miscommunication of the tire contingency rules......Lee was the promoter and website administrator. I also never received any of my 100 plus gallons of Sunoco racing fuel Lee said I was winning and he posted my winnings on his website. They are coming in the mail he always said. This was the issue that sent me over the edge. When I spoke with Lee on the phone (after he learned of my speaking out against him) he said "You are not getting anything now....These prizes should be considered gifts from me for all of my hard work". Well now, I'm sure the sponsors would love to hear this outburst I thought. I considered calling all of the V8stockcar sponsors and advise them of the way Lee was.....not giving out the contingencies. I DID think before taking this action and decided to NOT make the calls because I might screw it up for others. This does not matter now because V8stockcar does not post thier contingency payouts ( if they exist )........not good for the sponsors efforts.

    Another issue that pressed me to speak out was when Lee was telling drivers of LS1 powered stockcars they could enter SCCA National races. These fuel injected cars are not GT1 legal. I tried to explain this to Lee on his website but he deleted my post and called me on the telephone. Lee said " We don't need any bad publicity so I deleted your post". He said "nobody ( the SCCA ) would care if the cars were fuel injected" I did my best to explain it to him but he would not listen. I was worried drivers would tow to Sebring and Homestead and get turned away...... Yes, I was the one that dropped that dime.

    I have attempted to speak with Lee and I even apologized to him. He will not accept any responsibility or show any guilt in any of the issues. I am still open for conversation but I doubt it will ever exist.

    I am not proud to tell these stories...... but they happened......and they took alot out of my racing interest.

    V8racecar
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    30 May 2007 11:10 PM

    Lee, I have seen you signed in on this board. Will you ever have the courage to reply ?

    bosco
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    31 May 2007 11:31 PM
    Amazing that you can ask that, when you don't have the balls to sign your own name.
    V8racecar
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    01 Jun 2007 09:38 AM

    Rosco, We are not in Hazard County, you are not the sherriff, and you don't need to protect Boss Hogg. I may have been born without "balls", just call me Daisy if you like.

    The topic here is truth in reporting, I do not want not enter into a "battle of insults". The website does not support this type of postings. Please refrain. [:#]

    christoc
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    01 Jun 2007 10:42 AM

    So Jeff, pick a userId and stick with it, otherwise I'll delete all three you have signed up with GT1Crew JeffBailey and of course V8RaceCar

    And, are you really on dialup? Or do you work for Bell South and just keep changing your IP address?

    You are not authorized to post a reply.
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