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Last Post 11 Jun 2007 05:42 PM by  krysd
????V8Stockcar Races????
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EM 8
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01 Jun 2007 01:16 PM
I love it. Way to go Chris.
Jeff Bailey
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01 Jun 2007 11:05 PM
I am not V8racecar. Some of the postings did come from a laptop I own but from another person.
bosco
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01 Jun 2007 11:38 PM

Jeff, you have absolutely no ability to tell the truth anymore. The jig is up. You are not fooling anyone. It doesn't matter if you had someone else post your nonsense for you.

Chris, thanks for exposing this fraud.

GT1Vette
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01 Jun 2007 11:51 PM

You're late to the party, Jeff. I saw this before heading to the track this afternoon and I've been stewing about it all day, so don't bother calling me anymore.

Obviously I'm not the only person whose button gets pushed by anonymous postings. It'll take a while for me to get over this. The first step is for whomever "borrowed" your laptop to fess up. The second step is for you to resign from the GTA Ad Hoc Committee - no wait, you've already done that! You really need to do a better job of choosing your friends in the future. I know I will.

"Mr." Kummer.

I'm usually pretty good with words, but I'm not sure I can express the disgust and betrayal I'm feeling right now.

Jeff Bailey
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02 Jun 2007 02:11 AM

Now I've lost two of my best friends because I have once again learned a lesson the hard way. Maybe this is what it takes for me to get over the personal issues that have obsessed me for over a year. My family, friends, and everyone around me has heard me complain nonstop about my contingencies I did not receive. I have destroyed my friendships and I stand here holding an empty bag, fewer friends, and a total disappointment to myself. I do not place blame on anyone but myself for my actions because I just could not let it go......I wish I was stronger and able to accept lifes shortcomings.....I am weak.

V8racecar, Thanks for being there, standing beside me, and airing my complaints.

Bosco, Your right, I'm wrong. Thanks for the past friendship and all you have done for me in the past.... I will not pursue our friendship any longer....it is in the past.

Butch, Sorry I let you down, I hope someday you will remember our conversations and understand why I let you down. "Good luck with GTA"

Terry, I am sorry my unability to let things rest caused you more waste of time. I hope you are able to let it go.....learn from my mistakes.

Krys, My apologies to you for causing people to think you were posting anonymously.

Lee, I am now at your level, eye to eye......we are both very STUPID.

Off in the distance you all hear.............BANG ! ....................................yea right.......not that loud of a bang.......that was me smashing my keyboard.

This race is over, I have crashed and burned.

Jeff Bailey

scaryterry85
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02 Jun 2007 10:09 AM

wow....

I said I would no longer give this any "airtime" - and I won't - this post is to Jeff in reply to his last post. Jeff - it was only out of being accussed of posting on this site as someone else while I was actually in Kershaw racing that caused me to post my final response on the matter in this thread - to hopefully once and for all clear the air and distance myself from being wrongfully accussed or suspected of having anything to do with the anonymous postings.

I was glad to have posted that - stand by it and meant it as my final word on the matter - in fact Lee called me and we spoke after he read it - it is over. I have said what I feel to be true and he and I agreed to no longer give it any reason to go on. I had let go a long time ago - hopefully now Lee has as well - I am sorry you were unable to, but I really hope you have now. The only time wasted was the time you spent not signing your name to your convictions and feelings and for that I am sorry for you and hope that this lesson will be one that helps you to grow beyond what ever demons have driven you......life is too short to hold grudges or lose sleep over thinsg so small. You are the only one that can change the world you live in and impact the world around you - I hope you find a way to do that in a constructive and productive manner and no longer waste time on trivial matters that matter not in the big scheme of things. I appreciate your clearing the name of those of us that have been falsely accussed by "falling on the sword" - but afterall - it was YOUR sword to fall on. I hold no ill feelings towards you and wish you only peace and harmony in your life as you move away from this, I hope to see you at the track and in the field doing what it is we do - race. No politics, no drama - just racing.

Hopefully the soap opera is over now so everyone will have to "tune" to a different channel for their entertainment - this whole series of events and situations is sad and I am glad to say - finally over.

krysd
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02 Jun 2007 11:33 AM

Jeff, this is for you, ALL of the emotions I am experiencing right now pale in comparrison to the disappointment I feel in you.

Krys Dean

krysd
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02 Jun 2007 12:22 PM

Chris Hammond

Chris, I started this thread because I felt/feel strongly about the way V8Stockcar was/is presenting information. It is probably time to block further posts, not delete the thread, but block further posts, because it has become an abject lesson of what can happen in a forum. Relationships were ruined, people were hurt and an opinion that could have been debated was lost from sight because of a poster who lied, and then continued to lie. Do as you will, but perhaps this mess can serve to show how NOT to create a dialogue.

Krys Dean

Jeff Bailey
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05 Jun 2007 10:59 PM

Hopefully, this is my last post in this matter. I have not told anything false. I have passed on my frustrations, as well as others frustrations, through the author V8racecar. I have to learn to accept shortcomings and dissappointments. The TRUTH is what I was seeking and maybe even some acceptance of responsibility from the one who decieved me.

There is a really old document in Washington with a few amendments to protect free speech and it provides for a right to speak anonymously. It does so because without anonymity, people might be chilled saying certain things. Like it or not, identy often gets in the way of communication. Anonymous writers keep the level of disclosure higher than it would otherwise be and it is important if we want to have balanced discussions. Can we get over this infantile "anonymous = coward" idiocy ? Anonymity is not an admission of cowardice. In some cases, its a way of protecting yourself from the extremes that people can go to. Or, it's a way of having many voices speak with the same name. The importance should be on what is said, not who said it.

It is hypocritical to even question anonymity if you have participated in the practice yourself.....

Nothing posted was false. The questions were ask in hope of possible changes, which would actually make the series better. I find that hard to be sabotage to the series.

What I have learned : Friendships can be clouded when friends have different agendas. Some friendships will survive.....some will not. The most important thing I have taken away from this is that anonymity can cause more problems than it is worth. There are better and more productive ways of communication.

With this said, Lee it is over. I hope you can learn from what has happened. I forgive you....because I need to. I have come to this on my own......even though I could have used some help a long time ago from someone that charges alot of money to sit in their chair. Now that was funny.

GT1Vette
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08 Jun 2007 02:59 PM

Yet again I hesitate to post here, but the idea of bringing closure (at least for me) to this issue outweighs the negative aspect of keeping this thread going. And you can rest assured that anything posted here by me is written by me - I'm not into the cut & paste method of generating a post:

I spent about two hours yesterday morning sitting on the back of my pick-up truck talking with my Bitty Buddy Bailey. While our relationship has certainly changed as a result of this forum topic, it appears the friendship will survive. Like me, Jeff has a tendency to try and solve other people's problems, and this propensity for "fixing things" has (at least) twice gotten him into hot water. As he works to put this whole thing behind him he will no longer "rattle sabres" for others (i.e - he's going to encourage people to deal with their own problems rather than expecting him to get involved). It remains to be seen how successful he'll be, but I believe he's sincere in his apology and his desire to change his behavior.

At the risk of also trying to solve other people's problems, Jeff's issue with Lee Arnold is that neither the rules for winning the contingency prizes nor the mechanism for distributing same were in place when the prizes were being advertised. Jeff felt he put a lot of himself into the promotion of the V8StockCar series, yet despite repeated attempts he was never told the "rules". Jeff is trying very hard to put that disappointment behind him, and even a small admission from Lee that he dropped the ball regarding the contingency program would help with that.

Regarding anonymous postings, I actually read the Bill of Rights yesterday morning and the First Amendment is related to freedom of the press and interference by the government. It says NOTHING about anonymous letters (postings) being protected. Legal rulings since then give the press the right to not disclose sources, but all reputable newspapers have policies against publishing unsigned letters (although they may choose to not disclose the author at their request). And the rules for this forum (which we all agreed to when signing up) prohibits posting under multiple IDs "in an attempt to disguise one's identity". Call me an idiot if you wish, but if you choose to post anonymously then I will choose to disregard your post. And as Jeff suggests above, it DOES seem inconsistent behavior that one would participate in multiple anonymous postings egging on the T-1 guys (in the thread about the 2006 Daytona National) and then question someone else's genital structure a year later.

Next, it appears there are those in self-described "high ranking" positions within CFR that don't like the V8StockCar series. Perhaps it's because the V8SC series brings more cars to the track and contributes to the oversubscription problem at most CFR events (a problem unique to CFR - MOST SEDIV regions would welcome an additional 15-20 cars at each of their events), perhaps it's because the V8SC drivers are viewed as a bunch of cowboys by the established SCCA official-dom, or perhaps it's just because V8SC has enjoyed substantial growth in the past three years through active promotion and others are simply jealous of that success. Since these anonymous high-ranking officials choose not to post specifics or call Lee to discuss the issues, I can only speculate on the underlying reasons for this friction.

Finally, "constructive criticism" involves pointing out a specific concern PLUS offering a possible solution. A nice bonus would be an offer to help implement that solution. "You guys suck - drop dead" is neither specific nor a viable solution. As I explained above, I personally have no problem with the way V8SC reports race results - it's certainly different than the SCCA rules for classes and participation, but that doesn't mean one is any more correct than the other. If I DID have problems with those reports, however, I might post something like "Have you thought about posting V8SC results based on the SCCA criteria? For instance, the results for the May 14 event at VIR would read (yadda, yadda, yadda)..." And if I REALLY was opposed to the way the results were posted, I'd even volunteer to post V8SC results for future events! Instead, we get "Are you going to fix the results or not?" - no specifics on what you'd like to see changed, no reasoning behind the request for change, and certainly no offer to help. Add in being anonymous, and is there any question why your "constructive criticism" is totally ignored?

My name is Butch Kummer, and I am dedicated to building a structured GTA class within SEDIV (and beyond). I applaud the efforts of the V8StockCar series, the recognition it's brought to using circle track technology in a road racing environment, and the number of new people it's brought into the SCCA fold. I will continue to support the series with my participation and articles, and I will also continue to use V8SC to promote GTA as the biggest bang for the buck in road racing. Is Lee Arnold using me to advance his personal agenda (whatever that may be)? Sure he is. Am I using Lee and the V8SC infrastructure to advance my agenda? Damn straight I am. I believe that's what's called a "win-win" situation.

Butch Kummer

krysd
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11 Jun 2007 09:53 AM

Butch,

You mean something like this?

On Saturday, April 28th at the Jim Stark Memorial Double SARRC event the V8 Stockcar GT-1 winner, Mark Davis, finished one lap down to the SCCA GT-1 winner, Terry Giles, who chooses not to participate in the V8 Stockcar series and behind Krys Dean, who finished second in SCCA GT-1 and also chooses not to participate in the V8 Stockcar series, Marc finished third in the SCCA GT-1 SARRC/SARRC. Event.

SCCA GT-1 SARRC/SARRC podium;

1st place—Terry Giles

2nd place—Krys Dean

3rd place—Marc Davis

V8 Stockcar GT-1 podium

1st place-- Marc Davis

There were no other V8 Stockcar participants.

I would have no problem with this kind of reporting.

KRYS DEAN

GT1Vette
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11 Jun 2007 04:46 PM

Krys,

I'm really trying to be done with this whole thing, but since you addressed me specifically I will respond:

I'm sure I'm not the only one who can see the absurdity of you choosing to not participate in the V8SC Series yet suggesting that you be included in their press releases. In the interest of accuracy, you also neglected to post that the entire GT-1 class was lapped by Terry. But then I can also suppose that your tongue was planted firmly in your cheek as you posted that note.

The disconnect seems to be that some people think (SCCA) GT-1 and V8GT1 are the same thing. As has been posted on numerous occasions, they are not. GT-1 is specifically defined in the GCR while V8GT1 (the "bluebirds", I believe) is much more loosely defined. And despite the similarity in names, (SCCA) SPO and V8SPO (let's call them the "redbirds") are not the same either. V8GTA and SCCA GTA are close approximations of each other, and when the 2008 SARRC GTA rules are adopted by the SEDIV RE's they will in fact be identical. Until then, let's think of V8GTA as "yellowbirds". In short, V8SC can define THEIR classes as they want.

Your post also neglected to provide an argument as to why your method of reporting is better than V8SC's, and it certainly contained no offer to take over that portion of their administrative procedures.

You (and perhaps Terry and certain un-named CFR officials) are the ones who appear get heartburn over the V8SC Press Releases. I have no problem with how they post results and from the lack of responses by others, most other people don't give a rat's ass either. If I want full results (including lapcharts and the fact that John Zuccarelli dusted all the GT-1 cars and set fastest race lap at Roebling), I'll go to MyLaps and see them for myself.

Based on the number of views of this topic, we DO seem to be selling a lot of popcorn. Since I have no stock in Orville Reddenbacher, however, I see no point in continuing to post on this subject. Please address any further comments to those responsible for the V8StockCar series (which is NOT me).

Butch Kummer

scaryterry85
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11 Jun 2007 05:15 PM

please - please - please....do not bring my name back into this....I have no heartburn - I do not care - about what or how V8 Stockcar chooses to run "their series" - I have been told - that I am not "eligible" to run with their series - that is OK - if that is how Lee wants it (it is his "thing") - I run for SARRC points - after this year (SARRC Season) - I will run only Nationals and AGT events....I wish / wished Lee and his group well - so now please leave me out of this. Why did I have to be brought back in - anyhow????? No one speaks for me - I say what I need to say and leave it at that.

I posted my last post before and I don't need anyone to put my name in this any more - please....as I said Lee and I spoke - it is over.....hopefully Jeff is putting it behind him and everyone else just "f-in"' let it go - there are far better things to spend time on then looking over your shoulder to see "who is dissing you today" - once and for all....I got no heartburn - get no heartburn and really don't care to give any either......okiee dokiee then.....

Terry

krysd
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11 Jun 2007 05:42 PM

Its true, "Scary Terry" lapped the GT-1 field just as he usually does, but I could do worse than getting lapped by one of the best car driver combinations in the SEDIV, Terry, Tony Ave and of course Phil Simms are the cream of the crop, Jeff Emory isn't to bad either and there are others, but no one should be upset being beaten by a great driver and a great car if they are legal (and these probably are), but that doesn't invalidate what Mark and I and others, do and the level we compete at, you of all people should know better than to make light of the efforts of racers that compete in a class they love, but don't have the $$ to put into it that some do, there is always someone who can outspend you, even in GT-A.

Recognition??? Why else would we be doing this it sure as hell isn't the money, we compet for ash trays for crying out loud, so yeah, I get a little upset when V8Stockcar implies one of "their GT-1 cars" won when they didnt, Marc took third place at Robling road on Saturday and beat me for Second on Sunday in the SARRC events, he won V8Stockcar "V8GT-1" both days, If they want to report the event they should report it ALL.

I don't know about CFR officials, there is no love lost between us, but I can understand why they might be "pissed off", but Butch is correct, no one gives a "RATS ASS" .

By the way, where is the "rule book" for the V8GT-1 cars that run in the "V8Stockcar V8GT-1 class, I have never seen or heard of one, but I CAN tell you that if you run an SCCA GT-1 event with me, you had better be SCCA GCR compliant because win lose or draw, I WILL protest you if you aren't. I care about GT-1 and I have no desire to see it drift into just another SPO class.

And finally, there is no need to reply, Butch, this is just the ranting of an old bag who's opinions ar just "agendas" and no one gives a "Rats ASS anyway.

Krys Dean

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