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Last Post 12 Feb 2008 11:49 AM by  DRAG
Addition of SMS final?
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The Nebulizer
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11 Feb 2008 12:27 PM

I was hearing some negatives about getting R comps too early. The explanation was that it would teach me bad habits since I could get away with poor driving rather than learning proper technique.

(But, then I was also told to stay away from street classes because it would create too harsh a ride. So, it is all confusing.)

DRAG
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11 Feb 2008 12:32 PM

Benz you do just fine and what makes anyone qualified to say that you aren't ready for those tires? I'd say you handle that near 4000lb FWD 300+hp car no problem...and it is obvious the tires helped a ton considering the way your times improved. I rode in the car and it pushed and had traction problems exiting...the supercharger rocks :D You can just tell by watching that it is easier to control, and at the invitational you easily ran faster than several lighter AWDs.

I think someone's noggin is outgrowing their hat!

DRAG
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11 Feb 2008 12:38 PM
The Nebulizer wrote:

I was hearing some negatives about getting R comps too early. The explanation was that it would teach me bad habits since I could get away with poor driving rather than learning proper technique.

(But, then I was also told to stay away from street classes because it would create too harsh a ride. So, it is all confusing.)

In my opinion that is just people repeating what they have been told or read on some silly forum. If the sticky tires allow you to brake late, toss the car in a different manner, take more aggressive lines, exit under power earlier, etc (things that could be considered "bad habits" on street tires)...then they allow that....period. What is faster is faster...smooth or not...bad habit or not. There are too many variables to make a statement so broad. If a tire improves the handling characteristics of a car so much, everything you learn from being on street tires can be put in the back of your mind. If the car handles differently, you start with a clean slate. You have to relearn regardless.

Andy Ucter
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11 Feb 2008 02:11 PM

Jason and Mr. Benz.

I'm still a proponent for street tires.

who cares if you "raw time" dropped... what if you practiced on street tires.. got really good, then went to r-comps.. your times would have dropped more!!!

as long as you're having fun, that is all that matters.. frankly.

IMHO... spending my own money is not fun.

so I'd rather try to be fast on cheaper street-tires... than to to be slightly faster on more $$$ tires... and have to piss with swapping wheels/tires at the event. had to do it once in the rain.. back and forth ... once...

Mr. Benz.

what size wheel are you using??

Jason,

just come to STU. I'll let you take my car for a spin on the AST's (which are made for M3's as well) they are so smooth, yet stick so much better than any other damper I've tried (that wasn't 3 times the price, ala Moton)

when you are ready for better dampers.. you'll already be looking forward to the AST's.

Vorshlag makes a nice 17x9 wheel that is forged and lightweight.

245/40 tires (maybe wider in the rear, if you want..) and you'll be happy!! and can still DD the car.

DRAG
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11 Feb 2008 03:45 PM
Andy Ucter wrote:

who cares if you "raw time" dropped... what if you practiced on street tires.. got really good, then went to r-comps.. your times would have dropped more!!!

That is still a broad statement and assumes a lot. If you had been in Mike's car, you would see that understeer and traction under acceleration was a problem for both the wallet and the fun factor. Understeer is no fun and neither is spinning from gate to gate. Pulling 4000lbs through the front tires with 300+whp and 350+wtq will go through street tires pretty quick. I think he did right...he drove it on street tires and identified an issue, and the easiest way to make it faster and more fun was to get on an R. I don't see what the big deal is.

MichaelBenz
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Posts:83


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11 Feb 2008 05:21 PM
Andy Ucter wrote:

Jason and Mr. Benz.

I'm still a proponent for street tires.

who cares if you "raw time" dropped... what if you practiced on street tires.. got really good, then went to r-comps.. your times would have dropped more!!!

as long as you're having fun, that is all that matters.. frankly.

IMHO... spending my own money is not fun.

so I'd rather try to be fast on cheaper street-tires... than to to be slightly faster on more $$$ tires... and have to piss with swapping wheels/tires at the event. had to do it once in the rain.. back and forth ... once...

Mr. Benz.

what size wheel are you using??

Jason,

just come to STU. I'll let you take my car for a spin on the AST's (which are made for M3's as well) they are so smooth, yet stick so much better than any other damper I've tried (that wasn't 3 times the price, ala Moton)

when you are ready for better dampers.. you'll already be looking forward to the AST's.

Vorshlag makes a nice 17x9 wheel that is forged and lightweight.

245/40 tires (maybe wider in the rear, if you want..) and you'll be happy!! and can still DD the car.

I am currently running an 18" wheel, the smallest wheel I can get on over my brakes unfortunately. But I can tell you, sure, I could go out on street tires and finish close to last place each event due to the push issue on the front of the car - or I can use slicks to hang in there and turn it through the corner. I think its one of those things that you would almost have to experience in my car to feel what the issues therein are. It lags greatly if you slow down too much - so to keep in the sweet spot you kinda have to keep it going a certain momentum - and to carry that momentum through the turns you need a dang sticky tire to hold it in line otherwise you will wash it out in a big way. Its not like I am running what one would call a "normal" autocross car out there....its a family truckster that is heavy! How many people have you seen out running fairly competitively in an Acura TL? I dont do so bad I think. I ran street tires on the car and they got tore up in a hurry - that or I finished last or close to it. As for changing the tires at the event - I think due to the fact that I will be out there at the event like at 6:30 these days setting up the track for you guys - I dont think finding time to change them is that big of an issue nor bothers me. It takes all of 20 minutes for the most part. I already have upgrades springs and shocks on the car....upgraded rear sway (thats all thats currently made for this model car) and tires were about the only thing I could do from there outside of slowing down - which only resulted in lower placement at the end of the day?

brgmcs
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11 Feb 2008 08:50 PM

The sticky tires sure made a difference in your times, and I agree with you that the hopped up TL is not a "natural' autocrosser. Still, the driving techniques that would minimize the problems you were having on street tires will also make you go even faster on the R's. It's not so much a matter of going slower to save the tires, but doing it in the right places and on the right lines to take maximum advantage of the available grip. Giving it up a bit at the right time can pay big dividends on the clock, plus it doesn't abuse the tires as much.

DRAG
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12 Feb 2008 11:49 AM
Don't ride along with me then....smooth is not in my vocabulary! LOL [H]
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