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Last Post 22 Feb 2008 07:41 AM by  dbrier
Solo Steering Committee Meeting 2/12/08 - Minutes added
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Eclipse2Lancer
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06 Feb 2008 09:45 AM
    Following are the minutes of the Solo Steering committee meeting on
    2/12/08.
    Attending were: Will Lahee, Mike Benz, Dave Dusterberg, Pauletta
    Dusterberg, Steve Brinkerhoff, Wanda Brinkerhoff, Bob Miller, Steve
    Ring, Brian Davis, John Wilmoth, Dale Brier

    1. National Tour - Talked about the National Tour stop being hosted by
    the Indy Region on 6/27-6/29. Putting a call out for workers at this
    event. Brian Davis volunteered to be the course designer, Bob Miller
    Chief of Tech, Wanda Brinkerhoff and Pauletta Dusterberg to work
    Registration, Steve Brinkerhoff to work tech.
    Dave Dusterberg has mentioned that Performance Driven, LLC would like
    to sponsor the event. Will Lahee informed that it would have to be
    cleared with the National Office and will submit an inquiry. If
    Performace Driven is allowed to sponsor, Will suggested that Brian
    Gard and Dave Dusterberg be in charge of the social event on Friday of
    the event for maximum exposure of their business.

    2. Schedule - 2 of the 3 Grissom events will be "special" events.
    First event at Grissom will be a "Performance Driven Dash" where
    Performance Driven has agreed to donate a prize to be won by the
    driver with the most consistent times across all of their runs for the
    day. Some preliminary rules were discussed for the event and will be
    finalized by the Solo chairs.
    The Second Grissom event will be a "Double course" type setup, where 2
    different courses will be run in one day. Similar to a 2 day event,
    competitors will make 3 runs on one course, then break (for course
    change and lunch), then 3 runs on the second course. The day will be
    scored like a 2 day event to give our regional competitors a taste of
    the kind of format a National or Divisional level event (albeit in one
    day).

    3. New sites - Still pursuing opportunities with Terre Haute Airport,
    and Allison transmission plant (Raleigh Boreen). If there are any
    potential sites members can help with, please contact the Solo Chairs.

    4. Solo Safety Steward Training - March has been targeted, but no firm
    date yet as the Solo chairs are still communicating with the
    Divisional Solo Safety Steward. Announcement will be made as soon as a
    date and location is nailed down.

    5. Annual Tech Party 3/8 from 9am-4pm @ Performance Driven, LLC - Bob
    Miller will administer annual tech on cars and helmets. Bob to contact
    Jim Feltz and Jim Priest for assistance that day. Steve Brinkerhoff
    will be there to help. Others that have experience with tech are
    encouraged to attend and offer assistance.
    Axware training will be held in small sessions in the conference room
    of Performance Driven, LLC.

    6. Preseason Region Buy for Solo Rulebooks - Took down names for
    rulebooks. Also going to take a bus inventory soon. Bus team
    encouraged to come for bus inventory. Solo chairs will contact you
    when that will be.

    7. Budget overview - 2008 budget was reviewed.

    Meeting adjourned. Next meeting will be informally at the Annual Tech
    party 3/8/08.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Will Lahee
    GChambers
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    06 Feb 2008 10:53 PM
    I will not "space" this one.
    Bobzilla
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    07 Feb 2008 05:48 PM
    Is this the meeting that we discuss all Miata's running 155/70R12 tires and carrying 500lbs of ballast? [;)]
    Eclipse2Lancer
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    11 Feb 2008 12:15 PM
    Bump. Still having a meeting tomorrow. Wear your snowshoes.
    The Nebulizer
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    11 Feb 2008 12:21 PM

    I would like to submit a petition that the e46 M3 be allowed into STU for Indy region, (following the favorable response to SEB Andy Hollis suggestion of removing this exclusion in ST forum). It looks likely that the exclusion will be removed when the SEB meets next, but not official until 2009 season. This would probably also affect Ted who joined us for the end of the season with coilovers and a CAI (if I remember correctly)

    I unfortunately have an appointment Tues 6:45pm - 8pm (2 blocks away). Could I submit this at the beginning of the meeting? Or, end? Or, if not, just drop it off for discussion in my absence? I would appreciate if I could get an answer either way at the meeting as I have a purchase pending (ground control coilovers for very nice price if I can act quickly).

    dbrier
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    11 Feb 2008 02:47 PM

    Eclipse2Lancer wrote:
    Bump. Still having a meeting tomorrow. Wear your snowshoes.
    It will take more than a little snow to stop my race wagon. [st]

    Jason, do mods send the M3 straight to SM or SP?

    Eclipse2Lancer
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    11 Feb 2008 02:53 PM
    The Nebulizer wrote:

    I would like to submit a petition that the e46 M3 be allowed into STU for Indy region, (following the favorable response to SEB Andy Hollis suggestion of removing this exclusion in ST forum). It looks likely that the exclusion will be removed when the SEB meets next, but not official until 2009 season. This would probably also affect Ted who joined us for the end of the season with coilovers and a CAI (if I remember correctly)

    I unfortunately have an appointment Tues 6:45pm - 8pm (2 blocks away). Could I submit this at the beginning of the meeting? Or, end? Or, if not, just drop it off for discussion in my absence? I would appreciate if I could get an answer either way at the meeting as I have a purchase pending (ground control coilovers for very nice price if I can act quickly).

    All due respect, but as far as individual car classing goes, let's leave it up to the 2008 rulebook and Fast Track updates. Allowing one change in contrary to current published rules would no doubt bring up other cars that people would want to re-class. So write a letter to the SEB for support of the move of the E46 M3 to STU if you have not already. I know we have added a couple of regional only classes, but moving cars to different classes is well beyond our scope, IMO.
    Also, we have more pressing regional business to tend to at this meeting (i.e. formulating a plan of attack and workers for the Peru National Tour that we are hosting in June).



    That said, here are my personal feelings about the E46 in STU: I have read most of the thread Andy Hollis started on the topic and generally agree that the E46 should be allowed to play in STU. So if you have a letter drafted, send it to me. I will put my name on it and submit it in support of your effort to get the E46 taken off of the exclusion list in STU. Let's do things right, and not undercut the job the SEB is supposed to do.
    ;-)
    The Nebulizer
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    11 Feb 2008 04:03 PM

    dbrier wrote:
    Jason, do mods send the M3 straight to SM or SP?

    Yes, any non-stock mod sends it straight to SM (.860) or ASP (.862) - vs. STU (.830) about 2 seconds. (yet M3 meets all STU qualifications)

    Will, I can respect that there are more pressing issues to discuss - sorry I can't be there to help out this month.

    But, I don't think it is stepping on the SEB at all to ask for a local removal of an exclusion that is on its way. This is technically not even a re-classing; it is a removal of an exclusion - which is different. The M3 meets all the qualifications for the STU class, but originally they thought it would be too dominant for the class. No one believes this would be the case anymore given the speed of the Evos and STIs. Furthermore, this issue was brought up by a key member of the SEB and looks to have unanimous support from the community - but can't take affect until next year. I think it is worth bringing up to the committee for a short discussion - especially given the support I have heard from others in the region thus far. (I actually just expected everyone to say - 'yeah, go for it' and that would be it.) If there is no time at this meeting, perhaps I could have 5 minutes at the next meeting?

    Bobzilla
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    11 Feb 2008 04:57 PM

    If it's going to pass the SEB, then why not let it and make the move next year? I know that we live in a "Instantaneaous Society" that expects things to happen yesterday, but unfortunately not everything does. Why not just be patient, let it follow it's course and go with it when it happens? Do we have to re-write the rule book every year to please everyone? I mean, I'd love to be in any class but what I am with my current vehicle, but I know that what I have is what I have and if I don't like it, find something different.

    Sorry, but I just don't see a need to rewrite the rulebook on every little issue that pops up that is not in someone's favor.

    turbohappy
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    11 Feb 2008 05:34 PM

    There's no reason why it can't take effect until next year. It certainly can. If the SEB is holding it off, there's some sort of reason. Cars change classing mid-season all the time.

    I agree that this is outside of our region's scope. However, it's regional solo. Ask other people running in STU if they care if you run against them given the circumstances. If no, go for it. But be aware that if anyone challenges your legality, you would still be found illegal.

    The Nebulizer
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    11 Feb 2008 06:03 PM
    turbohappy wrote:

    There's no reason why it can't take effect until next year. It certainly can. If the SEB is holding it off, there's some sort of reason. Cars change classing mid-season all the time.

    I agree that this is outside of our region's scope. However, it's regional solo. Ask other people running in STU if they care if you run against them given the circumstances. If no, go for it. But be aware that if anyone challenges your legality, you would still be found illegal.

    Oh, I was under the impression since the new rule book was already printed it couldn't be changed until the next version.

    I just wouldn't want it to look like I am being defiant (or trying to cheat) by putting STU on my car at an event if it isn't formally approved. I didn't think it would be that big of a deal, but I guess making it official is a big deal; whereas, if I just run STU and accept any challenge that is not a big deal.

    OK, I guess I didn't understand this very well. Nevermind then.

    brgmcs
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    11 Feb 2008 08:42 PM

    I'll start off by saying that I don't personally care as far as how this proposal impacts me (it doesn't, as I'm not in this sport for the trophies), but I 100% agree with Mr. 'Zilla. I'll also point out if someone decides to run in a class that isn't legal (at the time of the event) then it technically impacts many of the folks running in the Indy Solo program. Just because the rest of STU doesn't care, if that is really the case, doesn't mean that it doesn't impact everyone else in the running for year-end Tovey Cup points. Don't forget that is based on PAX results across all classes. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say I don't think that you guys are forgetting it since PAX seems to keep coming up in the M3 to STU and the SMS vs SM discussions.[:(]

    I don't agree with all the rules, but I have a philosophical issue with folks trying to change them to meet their personal needs. If you don't like the class your car is in then buy another car, modify the car to better meet the class rules or just take your lumps and go out to have some fun. [Y] After all, there is no rule against comparing your times against your buddies in another class. A number of us have been doing this for years, but we all run in classes that our cars are legal for.

    If you want to buy the M3 mods at a good price now that you'll want for STU next year (or whenever the National class rules change), then I'd encourage you to go ahead and do it. Put 'em on, run the car in a currently legal class (PAX be damned) and get you and the car nicely sorted out so you're ready when STU becomes a legal option.

    "Rant off". [:)]

    Scott

    GChambers
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    11 Feb 2008 11:19 PM
    I agree with these guys. If I were you, I would just run SMS. You are legal for that class, will have plenty of competetion and, IMO, have a very capable car for that class. You may even find yourself winning an event or two. If(when) they do the change for next season, you will be set to go.
    The Nebulizer
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    11 Feb 2008 11:44 PM

    Let me say, I apologize if this came off as me looking for special treatment. I now get that it comes off like that, but it was not my intention. A few members had suggested I just run STU this year; I figured I should ask for permission first rather than appear as cheating. Anyway, I am dropping it. Sorry for upsetting anyone - I was just excited by the thought of running in the class I wanted and was hoping we could move a little faster than the SEB on something that appears inevitable.

    brgmcs wrote:
    If you want to buy the M3 mods at a good price now that you'll want for STU next year (or whenever the National class rules change), then I'd encourage you to go ahead and do it. Put 'em on, run the car in a currently legal class (PAX be damned) and get you and the car nicely sorted out so you're ready when STU becomes a legal option.

    Yeah, I think that is what I will probably do. I'll likely run SMS (which is a nice option I was somehow forgetting to consider) until the expected STU exclusion is lifted.

    brgmcs
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    11 Feb 2008 11:48 PM

    Keep an eye on the FastTrack section of the SCCA web site for mid-season announcements of rule changes. I wouldn't guess that the SEB would move fast enough to remove the E46 M3 exclusion from STU for 2008, but you never know.

    dbrier
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    12 Feb 2008 07:32 AM
    Just some play in SMS, I want another crack at you anyway... [H]
    The Nebulizer
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    12 Feb 2008 09:39 AM

    dbrier wrote:
    Just some play in SMS, I want another crack at you anyway... [H]

    Half the reason I wanted to go to STU was so I wouldn't have to keep beating up on you, Dale. I like you too much to hurt you so badly.

    MichaelBenz
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    12 Feb 2008 10:50 AM

    As has already been mentioned, I am also not for rewriting the rule book or making exclusions beyond our scope. I think we may just have to wait for 2009 season unfortunately...but certainly would be willing to hear your case at the next meeting, if you cant make it to this one.

    Mikey

    turbohappy
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    12 Feb 2008 11:30 AM
    brgmcs wrote:

    I'll also point out if someone decides to run in a class that isn't legal (at the time of the event) then it technically impacts many of the folks running in the Indy Solo program. Just because the rest of STU doesn't care, if that is really the case, doesn't mean that it doesn't impact everyone else in the running for year-end Tovey Cup points. Don't forget that is based on PAX results across all classes. Actually, I'll go out on a limb and say I don't think that you guys are forgetting it since PAX seems to keep coming up in the M3 to STU and the SMS vs SM discussions.[:(]

    Good point, I forgot about that detail.

    Eclipse2Lancer
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    16 Feb 2008 03:32 PM
    added the minutes to the original post. Thanks everyone who braved the weather to come out. [:)]
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