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Last Post 03 Apr 2008 12:19 PM by  gripfreak89
New Street Mod S Class
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The Outsider
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15 Mar 2008 04:27 PM

    What's the word on the new SMS class? Is anyone else going to be running this class in '08? I think this is a great idea and I'm happy to see that I don't have to spend a boat load of money on R tires this year to remain competitive. I have been running SM and have enjoyed how the class has grown in the past couple of years bringing great competition. But to stay ahead in Street Mod R tires are a must and they cost too much money for such a short life. Now maybe I'll have more time to walk the course instead of spending time changing tires before the event. Any thoughts?

    Eclipse2Lancer
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:918


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    15 Mar 2008 05:02 PM
    I know a few guys for sure are going to run SMS this year.....and I am sure a lot of new people will run SMS that were bundled into SM in years past.
    dbrier
    Basic Member
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    Posts:255


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    15 Mar 2008 10:34 PM

    I think you'll see most of last years SM cars move over to SMS.

    I know most of the Subarus are moving over.

    The Nebulizer
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    Posts:1817


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    15 Mar 2008 11:11 PM

    I am officially equipped for SMS now. I got my coilovers installed yesterday, so I am no longer AS legal.

    DRAG
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    16 Mar 2008 01:19 PM
    I still don't know what class I am going to run. Right now I can run AS but I am definately staying away from that and by the time the 1st even is here I will not be legal. I am considering STU or SMS I guess. It all depends on how the competition is.
    Andy Ucter
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    18 Mar 2008 08:12 AM
    The Nebulizer wrote:

    I am officially equipped for SMS now. I got my coilovers installed yesterday, so I am no longer AS legal.

    which coil-overs did you decide on???

    DRAG..

    STU!!!! woot..

    (which is where Jason should come too!!!)

    The Nebulizer
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    Posts:1817


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    18 Mar 2008 09:46 AM
    Andy Ucter wrote:
    which coil-overs did you decide on???

    DRAG..

    STU!!!! woot..

    (which is where Jason should come too!!!)

    Ground Control Street/School Coilovers w/ camber plate (450/500 springs) - nice comfortable ride for street (might be better for regular driving than before), but very solid and stable (also changed bushings which adds to this). Under spirited starts/corners I think the Stability Control threashold has been raised - like the tires are just sticking better (same tires).

    I also have a square wheel setup now (finally got my last wheel yesterday!!! ), by running 4 rear wheels to get extra width up front (9"). Should help with understeer.

    I defintiely plan to go STU when elligible - but look forward to racing with my SM buds until then.

    The Nebulizer
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    Posts:1817


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    18 Mar 2008 09:53 AM
    The Outsider wrote:

    What's the word on the new SMS class? Is anyone else going to be running this class in '08? I think this is a great idea and I'm happy to see that I don't have to spend a boat load of money on R tires this year to remain competitive. I have been running SM and have enjoyed how the class has grown in the past couple of years bringing great competition. But to stay ahead in Street Mod R tires are a must and they cost too much money for such a short life. Now maybe I'll have more time to walk the course instead of spending time changing tires before the event. Any thoughts?

    It's Kevin! I was trying to figure out who 'The Outsider' was. Nice to see you made it to the site. (And, I guess this means I can drop down yet another spot in SMS, now... [:P])

    brgmcs
    New Member
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    18 Mar 2008 07:53 PM
    Ya' know, there is the distinct possibility that the SMS roster will look just like last year's SM class. [:^)]
    The Nebulizer
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    19 Mar 2008 12:16 AM

    DRAG wrote:
    I still don't know what class I am going to run. Right now I can run AS....

    Is this specified yet? I thought the Evo X was still unclassified? (along with the new STi, 135, and M3 among others... ) - unless I missed this posted somewhere. I am really curious to see where that 135 ends up - could be a nice DS car. That car was really tempting me a few months ago before I decided to go for the used M3. The 2002tii makes a comeback...

    brgmcs wrote:
    Ya' know, there is the distinct possibility that the SMS roster will look just like last year's SM class. [:^)]

    I think Benz still has some life in his R comps, but I can't think of any other regulars from last year that will still be in SM consistantly. I think Benz was the only one that really wanted to race with those tires as opposed to being somewhat forced into it to be competitive.

    dbrier
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    Posts:255


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    19 Mar 2008 07:51 AM

    brgmcs wrote:
    Ya' know, there is the distinct possibility that the SMS roster will look just like last year's SM class. [:^)]
    I agree

    The difference is that guys like Kevin will only beat me by 3 sec instead of 4 [:P]

    It will definately get me closer to Jim.

    Eclipse2Lancer
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:918


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    19 Mar 2008 08:03 AM
    dbrier wrote:

    brgmcs wrote:
    Ya' know, there is the distinct possibility that the SMS roster will look just like last year's SM class. [:^)]
    I agree

    The difference is that guys like Kevin will only beat me by 3 sec instead of 4 [:P]

    It will definately get me closer to Jim.

    Right now for the fun event there are 2 in SM and 2 in SMS pre-registered. Wilmoth is staying in SM because he runs on Advan A048's.

    DRAG
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    19 Mar 2008 01:09 PM
    dbrier wrote:

    brgmcs wrote:
    Ya' know, there is the distinct possibility that the SMS roster will look just like last year's SM class. [:^)]
    I agree

    The difference is that guys like Kevin will only beat me by 3 sec instead of 4 [:P]

    It will definately get me closer to Jim.

    Just curious (and for reference to prove my point)....what times did you run at the 16th street invitational? I ran a 54.2 (the true FTD had people been counting cones and times [um]) on regular ole street tires and stock suspension. Kevin ran 54.xx as well in his Scoobaru (and more consistently than I did [:D][Y]) SMS was a lateral move. All it means is that guys like Benz and Dales get to either run their slicks in a low car count class OR run against the AWDs on their street tires. It was a lateral move. People that were getting beat in SM will be getting beat in SMS just the same. I've worn my opinion out on this so I will shut up now...LOL!

    Locked
    Basic Member
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    Posts:493


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    19 Mar 2008 02:27 PM

    DRAG wrote:
    I still don't know what class I am going to run. Right now I can run AS but I am definately staying away from that and by the time the 1st even is here I will not be legal. I am considering STU or SMS I guess. It all depends on how the competition is.

    As much as I would like you to stay in STU I don't see you staying within the mods allowed for that class. At least not very long. Go with SMS since you seem to appreciate that class so much! [:P] I think there will be very good competition in both SMS and STU.

    The Nebulizer
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    Posts:1817


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    19 Mar 2008 03:33 PM

    DRAG wrote:
    Just curious (and for reference to prove my point)....what times did you run at the 16th street invitational? I ran a 54.2 (the true FTD had people been counting cones and times [um]) on regular ole street tires and stock suspension. Kevin ran 54.xx as well in his Scoobaru (and more consistently than I did [:D][Y]) SMS was a lateral move. All it means is that guys like Benz and Dales get to either run their slicks in a low car count class OR run against the AWDs on their street tires. It was a lateral move. People that were getting beat in SM will be getting beat in SMS just the same. I've worn my opinion out on this so I will shut up now...LOL!

    SMS should have closer competition than SM did last year. Last season there was a clear separation between Street and R (yes, a separation that was confounded by skill level too) - but at least now we will have a better idea what is tires and what is skill. No one thinks it is going to mix things up greatly as we all know who the better racers are - but it should reduce the range. It also gives everyone in SM the option to run R or street and still be competitively PAX'd either way. I look forward to reducing a significant setup variable so I can more directly compare my skill to others - and with the reduced PAX multiplier, we can also more directly compare our performance to other classes based on our setup.

    So, I don't entirely get why you say a lateral move. Yeah, it may end up being almost the exact same people - and within the class the order may be nearly the same, but undoubtedly the street tire setup will make competition within the class closer and racers in the SMS class will be more competitive with other classes.

    Statistically, by eliminating a significant variable we reduce the range, which equals better competition.

    brgmcs
    New Member
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    19 Mar 2008 09:55 PM
    Eliminating R comps also gives the AWD rally car crowd an even bigger advantage, and increases the advantage that RWD already has over FWD. You guys ought to feel pretty bad if you get beat by a FWD SMS car. [:D]
    dbrier
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:255


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    20 Mar 2008 07:36 AM
    brgmcs wrote:
    Eliminating R comps also gives the AWD rally car crowd an even bigger advantage, and increases the advantage that RWD already has over FWD. You guys ought to feel pretty bad if you get beat by a FWD SMS car. [:D]
    I don't feel bad at all, I've gotten used to it.
    Andy Ucter
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    20 Mar 2008 07:58 AM

    brgmcs wrote:
    Eliminating R comps also gives the AWD rally car crowd an even bigger advantage, and increases the advantage that RWD already has over FWD. You guys ought to feel pretty bad if you get beat by a FWD SMS car. [:D]

    with all due respect.. I disagree with you..

    R-comps.. esp to a n00b.. is a crutch... learning to drive an AWD car is way more difficult than any FWD or RWD.. the only thing the AWD car does well is pull-itself out of corners..

    everything else is worse, learning corner entry, learning how different corner entry angles will effect how you come out... how mid corner will be .. etc..

    this is a BIG reason why the AWD new-guys appear to be over-driving their car more than the non-awd n00bs... IMHO.. they aren't over-driving as much as you think.. just haven't fingered it out yet.. and therefore.. push the car too hard into the corner.. botch up the mid-corner rotatation.. which then screws up their exit.. which as i mentioned.. is the one place where their car can shine.

    i hope that makes sense.. at least the way I am explaining it.

    the whole slow-in/fast out technique is 10 times more critcal for the EVO/WRX guys..

    the STi on the other hand.. only 5 times more critical

    STI > EVO > WRX (not opening that can of worms.. just poking ribs.. so no flaming) :)

    brgmcs
    New Member
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    20 Mar 2008 08:21 AM
    Andy Ucter wrote:

    brgmcs wrote:
    Eliminating R comps also gives the AWD rally car crowd an even bigger advantage, and increases the advantage that RWD already has over FWD. You guys ought to feel pretty bad if you get beat by a FWD SMS car. [:D]

    with all due respect.. I disagree with you..

    R-comps.. esp to a n00b.. is a crutch... learning to drive an AWD car is way more difficult than any FWD or RWD.. the only thing the AWD car does well is pull-itself out of corners..

    everything else is worse, learning corner entry, learning how different corner entry angles will effect how you come out... how mid corner will be .. etc..

    this is a BIG reason why the AWD new-guys appear to be over-driving their car more than the non-awd n00bs... IMHO.. they aren't over-driving as much as you think.. just haven't fingered it out yet.. and therefore.. push the car too hard into the corner.. botch up the mid-corner rotatation.. which then screws up their exit.. which as i mentioned.. is the one place where their car can shine.

    i hope that makes sense.. at least the way I am explaining it.

    the whole slow-in/fast out technique is 10 times more critcal for the EVO/WRX guys..

    Having autocrossed multiple examples of all three configurations, I'll stand by my original statement. Many AWD cars drive much like FWD cars, except with the ability to apply LOTS more power off the line or coming out of corners. All the challenges you describe also apply to learning FWD cars.

    Bobzilla
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    20 Mar 2008 08:25 AM

    double post, won't let me delete it

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