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Last Post 03 Apr 2008 12:19 PM by  gripfreak89
New Street Mod S Class
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Bobzilla
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20 Mar 2008 08:29 AM

dbrier wrote:
brgmcs wrote:
Eliminating R comps also gives the AWD rally car crowd an even bigger advantage, and increases the advantage that RWD already has over FWD. You guys ought to feel pretty bad if you get beat by a FWD SMS car. [:D]
I don't feel bad at all, I've gotten used to it.

Matter of fact I remember you almost getting beat by an underprepared, overweight STS car. . . . . Stick out tongue But I know it wasn't ME driving it!

gilpatt
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20 Mar 2008 09:24 AM

I,m in with my purple Neon and becoming an associate member

Pat Gilbert

The Nebulizer
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20 Mar 2008 11:48 AM
gilpatt wrote:

I,m in with my purple Neon and becoming an associate member

Pat Gilbert

Nice garage! Welcome to the forums, Pat.

What class were you running your Neon in before?

Locked
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20 Mar 2008 12:22 PM
Andy Ucter wrote:
R-comps.. esp to a n00b.. is a crutch... learning to drive an AWD car is way more difficult than any FWD or RWD.. the only thing the AWD car does well is pull-itself out of corners..

I'm not going to choose a side here on what's more difficult to drive, but I can offer my limited experience.

You say R-comps are a crutch; I tend to think AWD is a crutch as well, especially in the higher power Evo's and STI's. You can push through a corner and mash the throttle and feel like you didn't make a mistake, because the car is so forgiving. My Integra pushed really bad with the supercharger so I had to be very intentional about being slow in and ease into the throttle out. I couldn't just put the pedal to the floor 'cause I would break the tires loose and push even more.

The extra power, better brakes, suspension and wider tires make make me think I'm driving the EVO better when the opposite is true. The reality is both cars have relatively the same characteristics... I said this in the columbus fun run thread, but driving on the ice really opened my eyes to this. The advantages the EVO possessed went out the window and I remembered how the Integra needed to be driven. Once I concentrated on being slow in and easing into the throttle out I got faster on the ice. It helped that the ice slowly disappeared, but I know I drove 100 times better in my final runs.

turbohappy
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20 Mar 2008 12:42 PM
Locked wrote:

My Integra pushed really bad with the supercharger so I had to be very intentional about being slow in and ease into the throttle out. I couldn't just put the pedal to the floor 'cause I would break the tires loose and push even more.

This sounds like the wrong approach to me. Since you have a lot of power going to the front wheels, you are always going to be constrained to putting the power down late coming out of the corner. So drive into it hard, trail-brake a lot, and then get the power down only once you are almost pointed where you want to go. Slow in with a FWD car is pretty much always the wrong answer [:)]

The Nebulizer
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20 Mar 2008 12:58 PM
turbohappy wrote:
Locked wrote:

My Integra pushed really bad with the supercharger so I had to be very intentional about being slow in and ease into the throttle out. I couldn't just put the pedal to the floor 'cause I would break the tires loose and push even more.

This sounds like the wrong approach to me. Since you have a lot of power going to the front wheels, you are always going to be constrained to putting the power down late coming out of the corner. So drive into it hard, trail-brake a lot, and then get the power down only once you are almost pointed where you want to go. Slow in with a FWD car is pretty much always the wrong answer [:)]

Hey Brian, while you are handing out the expert advice... how do I drive a RWD properly in the turns? I am determined to get that stability control turned off this year without spinning out... too often... Is it the opposite style, slow in, turn early, fast out (but with a careful touch on the throttle)?

Locked
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20 Mar 2008 06:08 PM

turbohappy wrote:
This sounds like the wrong approach to me. Since you have a lot of power going to the front wheels, you are always going to be constrained to putting the power down late coming out of the corner. So drive into it hard, trail-brake a lot, and then get the power down only once you are almost pointed where you want to go. Slow in with a FWD car is pretty much always the wrong answer [:)]

No wonder I could never be competitive in that car! So with an AWD car do you want to be slow or fast in?

turbohappy
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21 Mar 2008 02:18 AM
The Nebulizer wrote:

Hey Brian, while you are handing out the expert advice... how do I drive a RWD properly in the turns? I am determined to get that stability control turned off this year without spinning out... too often... Is it the opposite style, slow in, turn early, fast out (but with a careful touch on the throttle)?

I don't know about expert, but yes, in general slow in, fast out is a good idea in a RWD. Be careful, slow in should still be pretty fast [;)] Use the throttle to get some oversteer on exit.

turbohappy
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21 Mar 2008 02:21 AM
Locked wrote:

No wonder I could never be competitive in that car! So with an AWD car do you want to be slow or fast in?

In a lot of cases it will drive similar to RWD or FWD, depending on the car. Seems some of them really do drive like a different animal though, YMMV.

gilpatt
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21 Mar 2008 09:01 AM
I ran it in STS STX DSP I couldn't find a picture of my car on the computer so I posted my garage door screen.
gripfreak89
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26 Mar 2008 10:28 AM
Is anyone running SMS2? Or am I going to be the only one in the class? I would rather run in SMS with everyone else but I dont think other competitors would like that.
The Nebulizer
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26 Mar 2008 12:10 PM

gripfreak89 wrote:
Is anyone running SMS2? Or am I going to be the only one in the class? I would rather run in SMS with everyone else but I dont think other competitors would like that.

I thought you were going STS2.

I don't think SMS2 has been discussed. Seems like a natural extension, but I am not sure we ever planned for that class. I am pretty ignorant on 2 seater classing, are 2 seaters elligible for STU? If so, and we went with the previous logic of halfway between STU and SM2, the PAX would end up around 0.849. If 2 seaters aren't elligible for STU, then I don't know what the PAX would be - may have to add the difference of SM and SM2 (.007) to SMS PAX = 0.852. Either way, I think you would need to make a proposal like Dale did for SMS and present it to the Solo Steering commitee meeting.

gripfreak89
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26 Mar 2008 02:20 PM

Well, this is Braian Tabor, not German Tabor.

Yes, I was in STS2 but my car has a turbo and torsen LSD now. It really doesnt matter because I'm going to be the only one running either SMS2 or SM2 which is not something I like. I would like to run SMS but in the other hand I dont want people to start protesting because my car is a 2 seater.

Eclipse2Lancer
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26 Mar 2008 02:35 PM
gripfreak89 wrote:

Well, this is Braian Tabor, not German Tabor.

Yes, I was in STS2 but my car has a turbo and torsen LSD now. It really doesnt matter because I'm going to be the only one running either SMS2 or SM2 which is not something I like. I would like to run SMS but in the other hand I dont want people to start protesting because my car is a 2 seater.

There is no regional SMS2 class. We are only doing a trial run with SMS only this year to see how it goes.

turbohappy
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26 Mar 2008 05:56 PM
Eclipse2Lancer wrote:

There is no regional SMS2 class. We are only doing a trial run with SMS only this year to see how it goes.

What was the wording that was decided on? It seemed intended to basically copy Ft. Wayne's SMS rules and they allow 2 seaters.

RonConrad
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26 Mar 2008 06:22 PM
Yes, Fort Wayne Region allows SM2 cars in SMS if they run on Street tires that are legal for Street Touring. I actually works out well...we get lots of Shelby Cobras, S2000s, and Miatas...it's pretty equal when they all run street tires so the 2-seaters don't dominate. Last years Fort Wayne Region Solo results should still be up if you want to review results.
The Nebulizer
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26 Mar 2008 06:43 PM

RonConrad wrote:
Yes, Fort Wayne Region allows SM2 cars in SMS if they run on Street tires that are legal for Street Touring. I actually works out well...we get lots of Shelby Cobras, S2000s, and Miatas...it's pretty equal when they all run street tires so the 2-seaters don't dominate. Last years Fort Wayne Region Solo results should still be up if you want to review results.

Really? There is quite a difference between SM and SM2. (.007 by PAX - which is more than the difference between GS and FS) I would think if anything street tires would increase the advantage for the 2 seaters since they are significantly lighter and put less force on the tires. I would support an SMS2, but I'd like to hear more arguments for SM2 cars into SMS - on first glance it doesn't seem like a good fit.

Andy Ucter
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27 Mar 2008 08:04 AM

Ron and Brian are correct here..

Fort Wayne uses it's SMS class as a sort of catch-all.

S2000's and Miata frequent the class amongst a host of Subarus.

you can't compare FS/GS.. they are completely different animals.. besides.. I think F-stock is the 2nd fastest stock-class now?? maybe 3rd ... if AS is having a good day..

If Brian (miata) were to come to fort wayne, he would be permitted to compete on street-tires.

Eclipse2Lancer
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27 Mar 2008 09:35 AM

Indy Region SMS Rules.

Item # 4 in the Region Supplemental Rules. This was inserted as proposed, without consideration for SM2.

dbrier
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27 Mar 2008 02:57 PM
Correct, we didn't follow the Ft Wayne example to the letter. We left out the 2 seat cars. The SMS class is a way of us putting our toe in the water.
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