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Last Post 08 May 2008 05:55 PM by  DRAG
STU Tech @ Nationals
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DRAG
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29 Apr 2008 01:29 PM

    How does the tech staff verify that people are running stock boost levels? With the STI and EVO you can control boost with the factory ECU and stock boost solenoids, so looking for a boost controller doesn't get the job done. Is this purely based on the honor system?

    The Nebulizer
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    29 Apr 2008 02:03 PM
    DRAG wrote:

    How does the tech staff verify that people are running stock boost levels? With the STI and EVO you can control boost with the factory ECU and stock boost solenoids, so looking for a boost controller doesn't get the job done. Is this purely based on the honor system?

    I believe it is all honor system. I have read people complaining about this and how there is no way to know. (This probably should go in the STU section though rather than local. Then you could get some more knowledgable discussion on it.)

    Are you going to do the National race at Peru? I plan to give it a go (I thought before it was only for top level racers, but I believe anyone can participate.)

    DRAG
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    29 Apr 2008 02:10 PM

    Right now I plan on attending the National event, but I have a personal milestone I must achieve before that can happen. I'm not willing to share what that is...ha ha. I also need to get the car prepared for the class to have a fighting chance at a decent showing I think.

    When are you going to be STU legal? What is going on with that?

    turbohappy
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    29 Apr 2008 02:55 PM
    Yep, anyone can come to the Tour. I know there are definitely a few tests that can be done to determine. Basically, you can run whatever, it is up to your competitors to protest you if you are illegal. I saw people out with radar guns tracking exit speed and max speed before the next turn in a specific spot at Nationals 2 years ago as a way to see if a car or 2 had significantly more power.
    Bobzilla
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    29 Apr 2008 02:58 PM
    I'm planning on attending as well, even thought I'm switching up cars next year I know there is a ton of info I can pick up there.
    The Nebulizer
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    29 Apr 2008 03:19 PM
    DRAG wrote:

    When are you going to be STU legal? What is going on with that?

    I haven't heard anything more. Is the May Fasttrack out yet? I suspect if it does go through, it will not be before next year at this point - but I don't think anyone really knows. I have been really enjoying SMS though - it is great being in a huge class and there has been a nice battle for the spots behind Dales and Kevin. I need more practice before being thrown to the STU sharks.

    The Nebulizer
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    29 Apr 2008 03:20 PM

    turbohappy wrote:
    Yep, anyone can come to the Tour. I know there are definitely a few tests that can be done to determine. Basically, you can run whatever, it is up to your competitors to protest you if you are illegal. I saw people out with radar guns tracking exit speed and max speed before the next turn in a specific spot at Nationals 2 years ago as a way to see if a car or 2 had significantly more power.

    BTW did everyone notice the cop using the radar at the event Sunday just before the finish? At first I was worried he was checking to see if we were violaing some speed law, but I think he was just having fun.

    Eclipse2Lancer
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    29 Apr 2008 03:29 PM
    The Nebulizer wrote:

    turbohappy wrote:
    Yep, anyone can come to the Tour. I know there are definitely a few tests that can be done to determine. Basically, you can run whatever, it is up to your competitors to protest you if you are illegal. I saw people out with radar guns tracking exit speed and max speed before the next turn in a specific spot at Nationals 2 years ago as a way to see if a car or 2 had significantly more power.

    BTW did everyone notice the cop using the radar at the event Sunday just before the finish? At first I was worried he was checking to see if we were violaing some speed law, but I think he was just having fun.

    I saw him.......waved at him too when I came off course once. [:D] I was going to go over and talk to them, but they left before I had a chance.

    Luke: I think you might get more info in the STU section here, but other responses are right that this is self policing as far as rules go. AFAIK, Impound at National events is where you can get a closer look at your competitor's cars.

    Locked
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    29 Apr 2008 03:33 PM

    The Nebulizer wrote:
    I need more practice before being thrown to the STU sharks.

    Since my car is white. Does that make me the great white shark?

    brgmcs
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    29 Apr 2008 08:32 PM
    Locked wrote:

    The Nebulizer wrote:
    I need more practice before being thrown to the STU sharks.

    Since my car is white. Does that make me the great white shark?

    I think it must. I noticed you were sampling some cones at 16th St. Did you think they were seals????[:D]

    mtownneon
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    30 Apr 2008 07:25 AM
    The Nebulizer wrote:

    turbohappy wrote:
    Yep, anyone can come to the Tour. I know there are definitely a few tests that can be done to determine. Basically, you can run whatever, it is up to your competitors to protest you if you are illegal. I saw people out with radar guns tracking exit speed and max speed before the next turn in a specific spot at Nationals 2 years ago as a way to see if a car or 2 had significantly more power.

    BTW did everyone notice the cop using the radar at the event Sunday just before the finish? At first I was worried he was checking to see if we were violaing some speed law, but I think he was just having fun.

    He and another officer were hanging around most of the day. He was just playing with the radar gun, clocking people at the finish line, amazed at how fast most were. The other officer was talked into a ride with Raleigh. They were there as one of us, gear heads having a good time!

    Bobzilla
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    30 Apr 2008 08:48 AM
    brgmcs wrote:

    I think it must. I noticed you were sampling some cones at 16th St. Did you think they were seals????[:D]

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I swear my car seeks out the nastiest, dirtiest most run over cone there is to blast. Those marks are a PITA to get off! I now wear them as a badge of honor!

    Locked
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    30 Apr 2008 09:29 AM
    Bobzilla wrote:
    brgmcs wrote:
    I think it must. I noticed you were sampling some cones at 16th St. Did you think they were seals????[:D]

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I swear my car seeks out the nastiest, dirtiest most run over cone there is to blast. Those marks are a PITA to get off! I now wear them as a badge of honor!

    Have you watched lukes autox video? I must have thought the last cone in that slalom was dinner for sure! I hit it dead center with my bumper!

    brgmcs
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    30 Apr 2008 10:28 AM
    Locked wrote:
    Bobzilla wrote:
    brgmcs wrote:
    I think it must. I noticed you were sampling some cones at 16th St. Did you think they were seals????[:D]

    HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I swear my car seeks out the nastiest, dirtiest most run over cone there is to blast. Those marks are a PITA to get off! I now wear them as a badge of honor!

    Have you watched lukes autox video? I must have thought the last cone in that slalom was dinner for sure! I hit it dead center with my bumper!

    Yep. No sense doing anything half-@ssed. You flat clobbered it. [:P]

    Not that I've ever seen a small green car do the same thing. [:$]

    Andy Ucter
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    30 Apr 2008 11:43 AM
    DRAG wrote:

    I also need to get the car prepared for the class to have a fighting chance at a decent showing I think.

    [8-)]

    [:D] [y]

    DRAG
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    30 Apr 2008 12:44 PM
    brgmcs wrote:

    I think it must. I noticed you were sampling some cones at 16th St. Did you think they were seals????[:D]

    Ha ha :lol:

    I love sitting out in my driveway watching Nick wash all the cone off his white paint. I used to pick on him, but I got some permanent cone carnage at Walesboro!!

    DRAG
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    30 Apr 2008 01:02 PM

    Back on topic...

    Regarding the radar gun....so lets say someone hits 2 or 3 mph faster and that is enough to justify a protest? Then what? They get software from another competitor with a similar car and log into the ECU? On my old EVO not only could I chance anything in the ECU with a free program, I could disguise it so that no other laptop could read it...even with the same software. It would jumble the data info jibberish. This same software could tune the EVO and STI. The STU EVO 8s and 9s make 280-300whp....the X in STU trim will make well into the 300s...maybe as much as 340. Turning up the boost might yield 20 or 30hp....30-40 tq. That won't make any drastic difference in acceleration of a 3200-3800lb car. That same power difference could be made with difference exhaust components, gearing differences by model, etc.

    I guarantee people are doing this, so I wonder why they just don't allow it....since they can't control it.

    Andy Ucter
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    30 Apr 2008 01:22 PM

    logging the ECU's won't do any good..

    because the rule set says we cannot change the target boost... or even anything dealing with the waste-gate... e.g the wate-gate duty cycle.

    .. I for one, use a completely legit 93 octane tune.. and a 100 octane tune... both have stock 100% legal... maps...

    however.. if anyone were to try to read my data logs.. they would see DRASITIC differences in actual vs target boost... due to controlled boost spiking via clever exhaust design and ECU tuning (AVCS rocks) ... both of which are LEGAL..

    I don't keep secrets.. i have spent literally hours.. tuning the car.. to remain legal for STU.. and I would hope my competitors both respect and share the same mantra.

    I use a version of a free software, like you mentioned, then loaded that into an accessport.. so i can change maps.. with out lugging my lap-top around.

    if need be. I can use my lap-top to plug into any STi or EVO... read the the garbled mess and see what your actual target boost levels are.... (hexidecimal is neat)

    I've never... seen or heard of someone protesting then verifying stock boost levels (in ST*)... however, if at an event..and someone were protested.. I would gladly read some-ones ECU to determine if someone were breaking such a rule.

    ALSO.. from what I've seen.. the folks in the ST classes.. esp STU are a bit more laid back.. than some of the freaks in other classes.... so let's just all play fair... and not worry about it.

    Andy Ucter
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    30 Apr 2008 01:31 PM
    DRAG wrote:

    I guarantee people are doing this, so I wonder why they just don't allow it....since they can't control it.

    sorry, i missed this comment before.

    I agree.. i sometimes feel the same way.. i KNOW i have gone against guys in STi's/EVO's running cat-less exhaust.. (which irks me, because my known legal dual-cat-down-pipe was $900) and "Stage 2" tunes.

    I have reason to believe that the car i went up against at a national tour was on a Stage-2 tune.

    I am torn on this.. i wish they would let us tune boost to a PEAK number..

    forexample.. if my boost is 14psi stock.. i can change any boost value in any cell.. as long as it isn't over 14psi..

    so we can tune for more low-end torque...

    however... you crazy evo guys know you can support more boost than the STi guys.... so you can BOOST IT Till it blows..

    trust me.. if i were at nationals.. a HUGE event.. i WOULD risk an engine (if this were legal) for a better shot at the jacket!!!

    more-over.. if they were to make a pre-set limit... that wouldn't be bad.. i don't see it happening.. but it would be nice.

    turbohappy
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    30 Apr 2008 01:45 PM

    Street Prepared is doing an unlimited boost experiment this year. How that goes will probably determine how it's handled in other classes.

    I couldn't enjoy winning by cheating. But there are a lot of people that could, I think.

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