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Last Post 15 Aug 2008 08:20 AM by  47CP
Give me a list of trucks for this rig.
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47CP
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25 Jul 2008 04:46 PM
marka wrote:

Howdy,

Primetime Glick wrote:
OK, OK, OK.... I APOLOGIZE for a GROSS exaggeration, I was off by less than 10 % [:O]. IIRC they were significantly more expensive last year. Ford like all domestic MFGs is in the toilet this year, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the price.

My point was that even going with one of the "big guns" at full MSRP I didn't get to your exaggerated claims. If you want to be a little more down to earth, MSRP on a 2wd Dodge 3500 SLT regular cab dually with diesel & manual trans is $39k. Quad cab adds another $4k to that.

Edmunds seems to think you should be able to get those trucks for invoice these days, before the $4.5k of incentives they're showing... I.e. for those trucks above they think you should be paying ~$30k & ~$33k. That's a far cry from the inflated #'s you're talking about. Granted, I'd add an automatic, 4wd, and a few other options, but even then I'm at ~$36k according to Edmunds... i.e. about $20k less than you're telling people a truck like that would cost.

Mark

I'm sure I'm daft or an idiot, but it seems like the newer diesel trucks are getting much worse milegae becuase of the emissions standards, so while you can probably get a good deal on one from a dealer right now, the mileage gains may not add up if the truck only gets 9mpg towing.

Not against diesels (I have owned 3 of them) but I don't think Diesel saving money is an across the board guarantee for all people and all situations.

DaveW

marka
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25 Jul 2008 06:14 PM

Howdy,

47CP wrote:
I'm sure I'm daft or an idiot, but it seems like the newer diesel trucks are getting much worse milegae becuase of the emissions standards, so while you can probably get a good deal on one from a dealer right now, the mileage gains may not add up if the truck only gets 9mpg towing.

Not against diesels (I have owned 3 of them) but I don't think Diesel saving money is an across the board guarantee for all people and all situations.

DaveW

Dave, we're not talking about all people and all situations. We're talking about a guy hauling a 40' to 50' or whatever fifth wheel with two cars & gear inside. Are you telling me you think he should be using a gasser for that? Yeah, I think you'd be a bit daft to want to go with a gasser _for that application_. I'm sure you could make it work if you really wanted too... I'm sure you could make it work with a 4.3 v6 in an Astro minivan with the body cut off too, but I wouldn't recommend it. :-)

If you're really interested, a buddy of mine now has a newer ('07? After the fuel switch anyway) Dodge dually w/cummins and a big fifth wheel. He told me his mileage, but I've forgotten what it was. I remember thinking it wasn't much worse than what I get with my relatively little enclosed trailer, but I can get better numbers if you're really interested and not just arguing because you think I'm a prick.

Mark

47CP
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25 Jul 2008 06:50 PM

Mark,

I have no experience with the newer trucks, it just seems that the general feeling on Dodge/Ford message boards is that the newer ones aren't doing as well. BTW, many 07 Dodges have the 5.9 which is the same as yours and mine (03-07)

I'm not arguing to be an ass, I am arguing because you are issuing blanket statements based on very limited experience and even more limited knowledge. If you are going to call people an idiot for considering something, you should bring the tech to back it up.

I would be 100% comfortable hooking the trailer mentioned up to a gasser truck and towing anywhere. I have towed trailers this size before with gasser trucks. I spent 7 years as a construction manager for a company that built and remodeled hotels across the country. While not all knowing, I do have close to 100,000 miles of towing experience, with various sized (and overloaded) trailers, all towed with gasser trucks (Ford 460's usually)

Those trucks did fine, for 100,000's of miles with no adverse wear and tear and no safety issues.

Any engine with 600lbs of torque is going to tow better than an engine with 400lbs. Especially if said torque is at 2000rpm. But, there have been big 40-50' trailers long before there were diesel pickup trucks with 600lbs of torque.

My opinion agrees with yours, a diesel would tow that sized trailer easier and likely with better mileage than a gasser. But, depending on each persons situation, a gasser would do just as adequate of a job getting the trailer to the destination, and if depending on the mileage towed, the gasser might still be cheaper overall. Every one's opinion may vary and that is fine. But, calling someone "daft" or an "idiot" because they suggest, based on their experience, that a gasser would do an adequate job on that trailer is, well, daft, or idiotic.

This is the wrong message board for this, but I (for one) would appreciate some tech being brought to the table to back up your statements.

DaveW

Obviously not an Official SEB opinion :)

marka
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25 Jul 2008 07:45 PM

Howdy,

Dave, he didn't say "what vehicles _can_ I use for this" he said "what vehicles _should_ I use for this".

I think he'd be happier with a diesel truck, and I posted my experience in response to someone telling him he might be happier with a gas truck who was using incorrect and made up / skewed info to support his argument.

Even using your own data, on your 24' trailers, you'd only need to tow around 10k miles/year to break even on the option cost for a diesel over five years, completely ignoring the benefits of the extra power & higher resale (of course, no guarantee this will continue, but I'd not bet against it either).

Am I the end all / be all of all knowledge relating to trucks? No. Do I think that a gasser couldn't tow that rig? No again.

Do I think, with the trucks available since the mid 90's or so, you'd be a little silly to go with a gasser vs. a diesel for that rig all else being equal? Yeah, I do. Doesn't mean it couldn't work, clearly it can. But if I were going out to look for a truck for that job, I'd sure as heck start off looking at diesel power vs. a big-block gas motor. I might change my mind if an _exceptional_ deal fell into my lap on a gasser of course, but I woudn't bet on that either.

Seems to me that we're saying pretty similar things in different ways. Either way, I'm done. Good luck to the original poster (and anyone else) with whatever direction you go with.

Mark

travis968
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25 Jul 2008 09:50 PM
To backup mark a bit my brother has a 52 ft fifth wheel that we recently took from Pittsburgh to Toledo for the prosolo, and its pulled with a dodge 1 tom dually with a cummins and an automatic. With three cars, gear and four people in it we got 11.5 MPG and it rarely shifts out of overdrive. He used to have a 34 ft trailer he pulled with two different chevy duallys with 454's in them to Topeka we got about 7 MPG with two cars, gear and 3 people with lots of downshifting on hills. Also had lots of brake problems with the Chevys none so far with the dodge now at 50,000 miles.
Primetime Glick
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26 Jul 2008 12:31 PM
marka wrote:
i.e. about $20k less than you're telling people a truck like that would cost.

I'm not in the market for 50' trailers and 1-ton trucks. The last time I remember entertaining the idea when I was bored was probably last year, back when these sort of trucks were still $50k++ easy, and 100k-mile models rarely saw under $20k. The last quarter in the economy has changed everything, especially as it relates to gas prices and truck value, so yeah, woe is me for using a last-year back-of-the-envelope number.

I saw like a 60% reduction in the value of my Ram over 6 months. 2 local dealers would not take it in trade or anything for a straight title Tacoma. Only one with a rebuilt title Tacoma was happy to do the deal.

Similarly, I maintain my "wrong" opinion that it's a risky bet that years and years into the future, you're still gonna get great resale on a diesel, and the 20% price gap between the fuels will remain steady (or shrink). Will a good diesel diesel pull better than a big block? Almost always, I'm sure. Is that last bit of oopmh and expense it brings always worth it? Not always sure.

BTW someone mentioned new emissions standards on diesels? Now it clicks; the new 6.4L twin turbo PSDs are "odorless".

thefirebuilds
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14 Aug 2008 10:59 PM

Thinkkker03 re: What is your estimated buyin cost? I may have missed it.

estimated buying: Love to keep it below 10k. I have seen quite a few 350 and 3500 trucks in diesels with less than 100k going for that price and lower. people are in a panic and god its good to buy in a panic :)

thefirebuilds
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14 Aug 2008 11:14 PM
marka wrote:

Howdy,

Primetime Glick wrote:
OK, OK, OK.... I APOLOGIZE for a GROSS exaggeration, I was off by less than 10 % [:O]. IIRC they were significantly more expensive last year. Ford like all domestic MFGs is in the toilet this year, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the price.

My point was that even going with one of the "big guns" at full MSRP I didn't get to your exaggerated claims. If you want to be a little more down to earth, MSRP on a 2wd Dodge 3500 SLT regular cab dually with diesel & manual trans is $39k. Quad cab adds another $4k to that.

Edmunds seems to think you should be able to get those trucks for invoice these days, before the $4.5k of incentives they're showing... I.e. for those trucks above they think you should be paying ~$30k & ~$33k. That's a far cry from the inflated #'s you're talking about. Granted, I'd add an automatic, 4wd, and a few other options, but even then I'm at ~$36k according to Edmunds... i.e. about $20k less than you're telling people a truck like that would cost.

Mark

dude, guys. not new. 2000-2004 would be fine. I can't afford new. I found 45 trucks with 100 miles of me with less than 100k on a diesel, on a ford 350, chevy 3500, or a dodge 3500, all in great shape, all for less than 10k. The trailer itself can be had for less than 10k np.

hell, planet miata themselves are selling a 40+ goose all vinyled up for $7500! for the money you guys are talking i could buy a used semi rig and live in it.

I appreciate the banter, most amusing of course is the autocrossers. what did you guys finish bolting your horrible freight tire trailers early and decide to troll the towing discussion?

thefirebuilds
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14 Aug 2008 11:21 PM
47CP
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15 Aug 2008 08:20 AM

[quote]I appreciate the banter, most amusing of course is the autocrossers. what did you guys finish bolting your horrible freight tire trailers early and decide to troll the towing discussion?

Nice.

DaveW

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