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Last Post 06 Oct 2009 07:48 AM by  hancheyb
Vorshlag Motorsports Evo X MR Build (STU, TTB, One Lap?)
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Mrsideways
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04 Mar 2009 02:50 PM
Wow those look nice... Hope ours look that nice!
P. Lier
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04 Mar 2009 05:01 PM

The bigger question is did Ann let Andy take the M Roadster out for a spin.  :-)

 

Peter 

Andy Hollis
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04 Mar 2009 06:36 PM
P. Lier wrote:

The bigger question is did Ann let Andy take the M Roadster out for a spin. :-)

Peter

Troublemaker. [:P]

--Andy

P. Lier
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05 Mar 2009 03:32 PM
Andy Hollis wrote:
P. Lier wrote:

The bigger question is did Ann let Andy take the M Roadster out for a spin.  :-)

 

Peter 

Troublemaker.  [:P]

--Andy

 

I resemble that remark. :-)

 

Peter 

jhue75
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05 Mar 2009 04:10 PM

Magazine writer? Magazine writer?!!!!

Thats Per fricken' Schroeder man!! PER FRICKEN' SCHROEDER!!

Or, as we refer to him , Senor` Boosted' Knuckles

......Ok Ok, its more appropriate as Kim's husband, or Stig's dad.

JK, nothin' but love Central Florida Region's Per.

hancheyb
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06 Mar 2009 11:31 AM
Last night we were doing some "clean up" projects. I had a chance to throw [B]the stock MR front strut[/B] on the shock dyno. Pretty interesting plot really. I did a run at 15 inches/second. This is a common "full sweep" people tend to want to see. It actually is completely unrealistic in the real world. There's no such thing as 15 ips in rebound so why measure it?

So I did a sweep at 5 ips as well. Notice how different the plot is on rebound (the negative side). Very little hysteresis and more progression AND zero or very little rebound at slow velocities. That's where you need rebound on turn-in. This curve has almost the opposite shape of all high end shocks out there where you have high rebound forces at very slow speeds and a digressive shape to the curve above 5 ips. 5 ips (or less) is more realistic as to what you see on the track or street and where you should look for performance. We've tested some of the low cost overseas coilovers where they made zero rebound force till 4 ips. That's the difference with high end shocks. Bistein makes good shocks and probably gets stuck with specs the manufacturer wants to meet liability and other requirements.

We recently purchased a potentiometer for testing (shock pot) to prove this in a real world situation by using our data logger and driving around on our test loop. We've got some really good pot holes, washboard bumps, and turns to show what your car is really doing on the street.

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hancheyb
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13 Mar 2009 11:03 AM
I had a really interesting morning I thought I'd share. Late last night Fair and I decided to install a new spring rate package for this weekend's events. Saturday I'm taking the car to a NASA Time Trial, Sunday "the Fairs" will be running the car at an SCCA autocross in STU, a good mix for testing. After seeing all the body roll at Harris Hill we decided to go from 450/550 lb/in to 700/800 rates. Now the car had slight understeer with this first combination, but I attribute some of that to running a skinny, worn out street tire versus the balance AND the nose heavy platform that the Evo is doesn't help. So if we fix the front, it's possible that we fix the issue. We don't like to change the opposite end of the car if we don't have to, I.E. fix what's broken. Most of the time you'd think more spring rate would make that end push more, but sometimes that's not the case. As a side note, we'll be switching to Yokohama AD08s in late April, running AD07s in the meantime. We have always loved Yoks for their R Compound-like turn-in and have had a 1st and 2nd place at Nationals on them too which doesn't hurt.

I drove the car home last night and it definitely felt aggressive to say the least, but not unbearable. I still want a suspension that I can drink a Starbucks in. Call me a snob, but I gotta have my coffee. :) I had to meet AJ from Performance Speed Tech (shop at MSR) this morning to deliver a part for a customer. We met in downtown Fort Worth which is 65 miles one way for me. I figured it might be a good test for the new package. I revalved the front slightly and did nothing to the rear. The rear has been working well on soft settings so no need to go up. The front we were running at full stiff so with the increase in rate I upped the rebound valving. North Dallas to Fort Worth is a great test for a suspension. Concrete side streets, new concrete highways, old concrete highways, new asphalt and old, VERY old asphalt highways make up the trip. Not to mention downtown Fort Worth is a disaster of construction. You get a mix of every bump you could ever imagine.

The trip to Fort Worth was comfortable, still aggressive. Definitely not coffee cup worthy. The car was pitching more than I like, and it was pretty obvious the rear of the car was the likely problem since I had them full soft and 6 clicks on the front. After meeting AJ I turned the rears up 5 clicks and drove back to our shop down the same roads. It was a night and day difference! The car was super smooth, obviously stiffly sprung but you could definitely drink your favorite beverage now.

Why do I bring all this up? Aside from the fact that it proves that monotubes can do a great job of controlling high spring rates without beating you up, it comes back to all the chatter we hear about critical damping. Yes, the theory and practice of trying to find the "perfect" suspension via calculations works, it can never beat the actual practical testing on the street. With a simple turn of the knob, I was able to match the front and rear frequencies of the suspension without too much effort. I reached in the trunk, turned two knobs, and was done. I can probably tell you that 700/800 won't be the perfect combination in a spreadsheet (I didn't calculate it), but with some tuning and testing, it might end up being very fast. We'll see this weekend. :)
Andy Hollis
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13 Mar 2009 06:40 PM

hancheyb wrote:


Why do I bring all this up? Aside from the fact that it proves that monotubes can do a great job of controlling high spring rates without beating you up, it comes back to all the chatter we hear about critical damping. Yes, the theory and practice of trying to find the "perfect" suspension via calculations works, it can never beat the actual practical testing on the street. With a simple turn of the knob, I was able to match the front and rear frequencies of the suspension without too much effort.

You didn't change the ride frequency. You changed the damping curve to better match the ride frequency. [:P]

--Andy

hancheyb
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15 Mar 2009 10:52 PM
Andy Hollis wrote:

hancheyb wrote:


Why do I bring all this up? Aside from the fact that it proves that monotubes can do a great job of controlling high spring rates without beating you up, it comes back to all the chatter we hear about critical damping. Yes, the theory and practice of trying to find the "perfect" suspension via calculations works, it can never beat the actual practical testing on the street. With a simple turn of the knob, I was able to match the front and rear frequencies of the suspension without too much effort.

You didn't change the ride frequency. You changed the damping curve to better match the ride frequency. [:P]

--Andy

Gotcha, I didn't mean to say I changed the natural, undamped frequency of the suspension. I adjusted how quickly the rear recovered from a bump by using the shocks therefore matching the front. After the changes we made a certain Civic doesn't have a prayer. The car "woke up" with more spring rate this weekend. :) 700/800 worked well at MSR-C and Pennington Field. More later.

Andy Hollis
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16 Mar 2009 02:32 PM
hancheyb wrote:

Gotcha, I didn't mean to say I changed the natural, undamped frequency of the suspension. I adjusted how quickly the rear recovered from a bump by using the shocks therefore matching the front. After the changes we made a certain Civic doesn't have a prayer. The car "woke up" with more spring rate this weekend. :) 700/800 worked well at MSR-C and Pennington Field. More later.

Hah! We shall see. Especially with what I now know about tires. Next A&M event (two weeks from now). Be there!

--Andy

hancheyb
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19 Mar 2009 10:50 AM
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Well, I was hoping to have all the race results in before I posted an update from the weekend. Last Saturday Terry and I took the Evo to MSR for the NASA event. The weather was pretty bad when we got there. It was in the low 40s, still raining and misty. The track was super slick. We were there late, but no point in going out since the weatherman said it would dry out slowly. Time Trial is a "best lap" effort so there's no point in beating the car up.

And it was sloooow to dry. The track wasn't fully dried till our 4:30 session later that day. Our first afternoon session was almost dry. The car turned a 1:27 in still slick conditions. That was good for 4th in the group behind two Vipers and a ZO6. The last session had some more "big guns" come out and the guys with R compounds started showing their grip. We managed a 1:25.1 in the Evo which was good enough to win TTA, and be within a few tenths of being a front runner in TTS. While a 1:25 isn't super fast when you consider the Evo is 3600 pounds and we still have the Dunlop 245mm street tires (Star Specs), a 1:25 doesn't sound so bad. A lighter, raced prepped E36 BMW usually runs 1:24s on Hoosiers for a comparison. So given the cold weather, the drying conditions and the prep of the car, we were happy with the results.

The car felt really awesome pretty much everywhere. It could use more power, but turn-in, mid corner, and corner exit were all great. For once, it had a touch of oversteer which was nice and much different than our first event at Eagle's Canyon on stock suspension. I was getting pulled on the straights by all the TTS and up cars, but usually closed the gap in the tighter turns (thank you autocross!). The Evo was definitely fast in the turns making 1.28g according to the DL-1. It made 1.15g in braking a time or two.

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Sunday Terry and Amy took the Evo to Pennington Field for a SCCA autocross. Amy ran in "Women's" and Terry ran in the "X" class. Both classes are PAX based. Since he's probably running different cars this year, he wanted to be in a class that allowed that. Amy smoked even STU Open with a 37.2. That would have won STU by 0.4s! Terry was a few tenths behind with a 37.4. Amy wrapped up the 10th spot in PAX in a field of 148. That's an encouraging result, but still the car was 1.5s out of 1st place in PAX which means we'll need to do better to place well at Nationals. Considering the level of prep, this definitely was a promising finish in its 2nd autocross ever (with shocks). The transmission comes through again with some 2-1 downshifts and 2-3 upshifts you'd never dare do manually. Thumbs up to the SST!

Needless to say, the new spring rates really helped at the track and autocross course. Terry said the car turned in so fast you had to rethink your driving. This is definitely a change from the first autocross at TAMSCC where it was a little sluggish.

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New things coming soon:


[LIST=1]
[*]Race seats - get some of the "lead" out. The car is making enough grip now that even the awesome stock seats aren't cutting it.
[*]Yokohama AD08s - this should be worth a few tenths at least over our beat up Star Specs, most likely much more.
[*]Lighter and wider wheels - we'll probably get a 18x9 or 9.5 for the car, possibly 18x10s for the track wheels.
[*]Lighter brakes - see if we can't get some weight off the front with some Racing Brake goodies. The stock brakes are still marginal at best on the track.
[/LIST]
hancheyb
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30 Mar 2009 11:48 AM


Another fun weekend in the Evo! We joined the BMW CCA Saturday at MSR-C for their DE and Club Race. Kudos to Bruce Heersink and team for running a great event!

This was a great test after our NASA event two weeks ago where we ran very tired 245/40-18 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. We switched to Yokohama AD07s (265/35/18s) and Enkei 18x10.5 wheels. The AD07s are on closeout since the AD08s are around the corner. This was a chance to try something new and bigger, for this "bigger" car. Robert Fuller of RobiSpec shipped out the wheels the day I called and we had them two days later. Thanks Robi! A mid week trip in the pouring rain to MSR where AJ at Performance Speed Tech had our Yoks and we were ready to go. The 265s were a perfect fit for the fronts. The rears required a little fender rolling, but we made sure to stick to the "letter of the law" for STU so they aren't aggressively rolled in the least. With the right offset rears, we believe we can run 285s no sweat. The front easily swallows it. We'll most likely settle on AD08s in 285mm width for NASA TT use.



Looking over the DL-1 data from the NASA event two weeks ago, we had max values of 1.25g lateral, with 98% values of 1.05g on the Dunlops. Using 98% values rules out the occasional variance in the data. The weather was almost identical for the two weekends, with most sessions were in the 40°s with high winds sustained at 25-35 mph, with gusts even higher - not your perfect day at the track. I had to close my helmet visor the wind would blow so hard into the car on the south side of the track that it would move your head!

The new, unshaved AD07 Yoks pulled a max of 1.40g and 98% values of 1.15g. So basically we picked up 0.1g going from a Dunop with 2/32" of tread to a full tread, wider Yokohama. Shaving the tires can be good for 1-2s a lap depending. Lap times were a second faster as well. The DL-1 recorded a 1:24.2 vs. a 1:25.1 from two weeks ago. Not that you can put much into theoretical laps, but the DL-1 says the "perfect" lap would have been a 1:23.4. I would believe it though since there wasn't a perfectly, traffic free, clean lap in any of the 4 DE sessions (unlike in NASA TT, there's only 4 places to pass at MSR in a DE). Unfortunately we could not take in reliable tire data during all this. We started with 36/34 psi and the outside tires climbed to 58/55. Yes, hard to believe. The car had an obvious tire pressure induced push towards the end of each session, no doubt related to the insane tire pressures. We didn't have enough sessions to play with pressures or tire temps. The tires weren't rolling over to the edges so the pressures we used were not ideal - 5-10mm of the tire tread wasn't even being used at these high pressures.



I lost the 2nd session entirely, betting 3/4 of a tank of fuel was enough, but on the first lap the car fuel starved and I had to go get filled up. The EVO does use some fuel in track use. Now that we've really got the car working, it can't even make a 20 minute session without fuel starving! MSR has a complex of left handers that ends up being one constant arc called "Buzzard's Neck". By the end of 20 minutes the poor EVO would fuel starve coming onto the straight after that sequence of left handers - Not ideal.

So another great weekend in the EVO. No issues, and no trans overheating. What's it like to drive? It is "simply amazing". It turns in when you want it to, it is so easy to correct in mid corner. Terry drove it on the new tires briefly and was shocked at how instantaneously it responds to steering inputs. It also never feels like you're in trouble even when the back end comes around, with a quick flick adjustment of the wheel putting the car back on line. Here is a car that has to run full of fuel, is daily driven, can carry 4 adults, and with driver and fuel probably weighs 3800 pounds (we're going to weigh it this week), on full tread street tires, and it turns 1:24s at MSR. That would have put it towards the front third of the qualifying grid for the BMW Club racers, most of whom are on Hoosiers and weigh around 1000 pounds less. We barely have any power mods either - the car is probably 80hp shy of most hard core track driven EVO Xs now. So we're happy with the track times its putting down.

So next up is the Houston SCCA National Tour this coming weekend, switching gears to STU class autocrossing. We're sort of in a jam on tires, unfortunately. Its 5 days before the event and we're not sure if we're getting the new tires or not. Long story, out of our control.

After that event we'll be installing race seats and a harness bar and heading to COBB for an updated "retune". They've played with the MIVEC and are getting more torque - sounds good to us. Our new inverted strut AST 5200s should be here this week, too. When we get the LS1 BMW back together (new LS2 based 550hp motor is done and going in soon!) we'll take both cars to MSR and try to do some comparable lap times of 4200s vs 5200s on the EVO.
Fair
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30 Mar 2009 04:09 PM
[U]Update: New wheels and tires[/U]

A little more info on the wheels Brian mentioned above. This is the new track setup we're using for now, until the 285/30/18 Yokohama AD08 comes out. The 285 should fit the front great, but the back wheel might need more backspace.

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[I]L: Stock BBS 18x8.5" and 245mm Advan = [B]46.8 pounds[/B]. R: Enkei 18x10.5" and 265mm AD07 = [B]48.5 pounds[/B][/I]

Front:
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[I]Fronts fit like a dream, no spacer. Lots of clearance inside and out. Wheel alone was 21.6 pounds[/I]

Rear:
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[I]Rear fender lips had to be rolled, but it didn't take much.[/I]

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We also tried a 18x10 Enkei ET38 wheel and it fit the rear much better, but needed a spacer in front. If we go to a 285mm tire we may get two of these 18x10s for the rear and keep the 10.5" wheels we have now up front. This way they would all fit without spacers.
hancheyb
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06 Apr 2009 06:52 PM
What a weekend or maybe an entire week. We had plans to go to the Houston SCCA National Tour and participate in the STU class. That all started going "haywire" a week earlier. We had originally hoped to run the new Yokohama AD08 at the event only to find out at the last minute that wouldn't be possible, but we'd have the tires "next week"....*just* not in time for the Tour. So, we really didn't see the point in buying another set of tires at $1000 for one event, surely our old Dunlops could make one last run right? Surely the well setup Evo could muster a competitive placement even on old tires right? SCCAForums Image SCCAForums Image At the last minute we decided to go ahead and install a Cobb downpipe and cat "test" pipe. On Thursday I headed over to Cobb Plano to get our STU and TT maps updated before leaving at 4AM Friday for Houston. I'm driving down there when all of the sudden, out of nowhere comes a heavy duty tie down (think bulldozer "come along") into view as I change lanes to exit. The giant BANG and almost immediate left tug of the wheel told me that this was "not good". I pulled on the shoulder to find the sidewall cut into shreds and our new Enkei wheel with a gash in it. Luckily Fair was following me, but of course, we had put 17mm lug nuts and the factory was 21mm. After going to Stett Performance to borrow a socket we had the spare on. Fair drove to the shop, picked up the Dunlops and drove back to Cobb since you can't really dyno on a spare. While out, he mounted a 3 year old Advan AD07 (matching brand/size as the other three tires from our NASA TT setup, except bald and MUCH older) on the Enkei as a "back up" for the Tour, and to run at the Friday practice. This was a tire our friend and former STU competitor Mike Simanyi [B]threw away[/B] and sent to us for fitment testing. Basically it was junk. But we wouldn't need it right? I mean we couldn't even drive on the street with it since it was below the tread bars and the others were new, with the AWD you know. Tuning wrapped up, we loaded the car with the Enkeis on it to practice Friday since the Dunlops were already beyond their usable life. Remember the Enkeis have 265 tires on them, not legal for STU. So the trip down was without incident. We had a trailer tire blowout a week ago so we bought 4 new ones. It was an expensive week. :) More on this later. SCCAForums Image We started the practice on the Advans with the bad Mike Simanyi tire on the left front. I helped Paul Magyar with his STI's setup while Terry and Amy drove the Evo. I drove the Evo and it didn't feel right to me, but obviously pushed with the "bad" AD07 on the front. Still the car was faster than other guys practicing by 0.5s on a 30s course. We went to lunch, came back and mounted the Dunlops. Terry's first run was 0.75s slower than the AD07s. That was a shocker. Well, we weren't going to come all that way to come in last in STU just because we had a last minute snafu on tires. Buying another set at 3PM on Friday having zero testing on Bridgestones or Toyos didn't make sense. We still want to try the Yoks when they are out. We decided to "punt" and sign up for BSP on the 265s. Since the car pushed a little we decided to put the bad tire on the back and we called it a night. Certainly disappointed. We didn't bring a BSP car to the event after all. SCCAForums Image Saturday morning we're ready to go. BSP was in the same run group as STU so at least we could compare times with STU drivers. Terry makes his first run and the car is terrible, unlike any time we've ever run it. It oversteers like it is on ice. I'm not much better wagging the tail out everywhere and taking cones or just DNFs since I was so off track. Terry actually puts a mid 60.6 run down but hits the last cone. The fastest STU driver was a 61.6. OK, so even with the poor handling the car is "in the hunt". We're disappointed, but hey, the car is capable. SCCAForums Image Amy runs after us in Heat 2, Grid B. We drive the car over after asking our competitors if they care. They didn't so we leave. More on this later. :) Amy takes one run and says the car is undriveable. We knew this already, but we were hoping she'd be OK. We decide to swap the bad tire back to the front. Amy makes her second run and gets a clean 61.1 BEATING the boys. Now, most will argue the course was cleaner, conditions were better. Anything NOT to let a Ladies driver beat them. BTW, she did the same at Nationals one year. Gulf Greyhound Park actually gets WORSE as the day goes on. It makes so much gravel there becomes one line and if you deviate, it's over. So we leave Saturday excited that the car seems to be better even if we're basically on 3 tires, obviously slightly bigger tires with a junk tire. The course was reversed Sunday so we swapped the bad one to the right for the Sunday runs. There were really only two left hand turns so we picked the lesser of two evils. SCCAForums Image We start Sunday with Terry's first run. Terry pulls out a 57.2. Most STU cars at this point were in the 59s and high 58s all dirty. Terry had a cone as well. I get in and run a clean 57.5. The best STU car is a 58.0 from Wiggy in an Evo RS. A great run no doubt. Good enough to move him into first place. Terry never could get clean and both of us slowed after this first fast run. We were within 0.5s of it though. Looking at the data the lateral acceleration numbers decreased on every run. We were spraying the tires, but I think the dead AD07 was just getting worse and worse. No biggie, the car is proving it's potential besting STU by 0.5s each day even if not by the same driver. We move the car as we did the day before to let Amy run. Unfortunately the tires were getting worse and worse. Her lateral numbers were going down. She eeked out a 58.5. Her combined times would have given her 2nd place in STU Open. Her last run looked great but was 2 seconds slower! Again, looking at the data, the car just got worse and worse. We end the day excited. The car is a blast to drive on the track and at the autocross. With the new cat it sounds so mean when it shifts. We love it! SCCAForums Image Vorshlag drivers in other classes did great too. Gerry won E Stock with AST 4100s by 1.8s, ASTs were on a C6 ZO6 that got 3rd behind nationals level drivers. 0.5s out of first. This was his second event on shocks! The ST Civic we help with won overall, Matt Lucas too, and many other strong finishes. Our STU drivers had some cone troubles but had good raw times. Roger Johnson courses are evil, I'll leave it at that. Can't forget Stuart Maxcy and his A Stock win. This AST 5200s will be on the car in a few weeks! SCCAForums Image We pack things up during a break, complete our work assignment then head for Dallas at about 2PM. I check the results from the car and we were DSQ'd today? What the heck? Since we were so far back, we never checked the times. We call Gerry Terranova who checks for us. Apparently we didn't "dot our I's" when we moved the car for Amy's runs and the Impound Chief got us DSQ'd. We were standing 50 yards from the grid. Why didn't anyone ASK us why we moved or where we were? Oh, no, just DSQ them even though the car stayed in grid. For the record, we're aware of the rule of not leaving grid and would never do so, but we also had to get a car ready for the next driver. This happens all the time at Nationals where you have to DRIVE distances to other spots not even staying in the same area. We were just baffled at a Tour that someone would assume the worst. Whatever, we're calling today to argue the case and frankly discuss other concerns we had at the event. We get into the heart of South Houston (a lovely place btw) and I hear a strange noise from the trailer. Terry looks back and smoke is bellowing out from the passenger side fender. Great! A blowout on a new tire? Amy as calm and collected as she always is pulls off the highway into a Bail Bonds parking lot. You get the picture where we are? Terry and I inspect the trailer to find the leaf spring broken (and missing parts) on the rear axle. The tire was lodged in the fender which made for the smoke. We call in the soldiers. SCCAForums Image Before you know it, we have an army of people surrounding us which is good in this part of town. Jason McCall, Paul Magyar, Matt Lucas, Chris Ledbetter, Kurt Janish (Mr. Tools), Greg Piper show up along with Gerry Terranova. It was a party in South H! Terry and Jason run to Northern Tools and buy a leaf spring and new hardware. Kurt, me and everyone else work at breaking all the rusted bolts off. We broke one bolt so Terry and Gerry had to run back to the store. We had everything ready to go once they got back and we were off again. Only a two hour delay. Thanks again for everyone and their help. I wasn't too excited about leaving the Evo to go get parts. It definitely would have been missing wheels at a minimum. :) We made it back in one piece around 10PM, a LONG weekend for sure. While we didn't get to compete in STU we're pretty happy with the car. It really handles well. I can't wait to see what it does four equal, on current generation ST tires. Should be interesting!
hancheyb
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06 Apr 2009 06:53 PM
What a weekend or maybe an entire week. We had plans to go to the Houston SCCA National Tour and participate in the STU class. That all started going "haywire" a week earlier. We had originally hoped to run the new Yokohama AD08 at the event only to find out at the last minute that wouldn't be possible, but we'd have the tires "next week"....*just* not in time for the Tour. So, we really didn't see the point in buying another set of tires at $1000 for one event, surely our old Dunlops could make one last run right? Surely the well setup Evo could muster a competitive placement even on old tires right?



At the last minute we decided to go ahead and install a Cobb downpipe and cat "test" pipe. On Thursday I headed over to Cobb Plano to get our STU and TT maps updated before leaving at 4AM Friday for Houston. I'm driving down there when all of the sudden, out of nowhere comes a heavy duty tie down (think bulldozer "come along") into view as I change lanes to exit. The giant BANG and almost immediate left tug of the wheel told me that this was "not good". I pulled on the shoulder to find the sidewall cut into shreds and our new Enkei wheel with a gash in it. Luckily Fair was following me, but of course, we had put 17mm lug nuts and the factory was 21mm. After going to Stett Performance to borrow a socket we had the spare on. Fair drove to the shop, picked up the Dunlops and drove back to Cobb since you can't really dyno on a spare. While out, he mounted a 3 year old Advan AD07 (matching brand/size as the other three tires from our NASA TT setup, except bald and MUCH older) on the Enkei as a "back up" for the Tour, and to run at the Friday practice. This was a tire our friend and former STU competitor Mike Simanyi threw away and sent to us for fitment testing. Basically it was junk. But we wouldn't need it right? I mean we couldn't even drive on the street with it since it was below the tread bars and the others were new, with the AWD you know.

Tuning wrapped up, we loaded the car with the Enkeis on it to practice Friday since the Dunlops were already beyond their usable life. Remember the Enkeis have 265 tires on them, not legal for STU. So the trip down was without incident. We had a trailer tire blowout a week ago so we bought 4 new ones. It was an expensive week. More on this later.



We started the practice on the Advans with the bad Mike Simanyi tire on the left front. I helped Paul Magyar with his STI's setup while Terry and Amy drove the Evo. I drove the Evo and it didn't feel right to me, but obviously pushed with the "bad" AD07 on the front. Still the car was faster than other guys practicing by 0.5s on a 30s course. We went to lunch, came back and mounted the Dunlops. Terry's first run was 0.75s slower than the AD07s. That was a shocker. Well, we weren't going to come all that way to come in last in STU just because we had a last minute snafu on tires. Buying another set at 3PM on Friday having zero testing on Bridgestones or Toyos didn't make sense. We still want to try the Yoks when they are out. We decided to "punt" and sign up for BSP on the 265s. Since the car pushed a little we decided to put the bad tire on the back and we called it a night. Certainly disappointed. We didn't bring a BSP car to the event after all.



Saturday morning we're ready to go. BSP was in the same run group as STU so at least we could compare times with STU drivers. Terry makes his first run and the car is terrible, unlike any time we've ever run it. It oversteers like it is on ice. I'm not much better wagging the tail out everywhere and taking cones or just DNFs since I was so off track. Terry actually puts a mid 60.6 run down but hits the last cone. The fastest STU driver was a 61.6. OK, so even with the poor handling the car is "in the hunt". We're disappointed, but hey, the car is capable.



Amy runs after us in Heat 2, Grid B. We drive the car over after asking our competitors if they care. They didn't so we leave. More on this later. Amy takes one run and says the car is undriveable. We knew this already, but we were hoping she'd be OK. We decide to swap the bad tire back to the front. Amy makes her second run and gets a clean 61.1 BEATING the boys. Now, most will argue the course was cleaner, conditions were better. Anything NOT to let a Ladies driver beat them. BTW, she did the same at Nationals one year. Gulf Greyhound Park actually gets WORSE as the day goes on. It makes so much gravel there becomes one line and if you deviate, it's over. So we leave Saturday excited that the car seems to be better even if we're basically on 3 tires, obviously slightly bigger tires with a junk tire. The course was reversed Sunday so we swapped the bad one to the right for the Sunday runs. There were really only two left hand turns so we picked the lesser of two evils.



We start Sunday with Terry's first run. Terry pulls out a 57.2. Most STU cars at this point were in the 59s and high 58s all dirty. Terry had a cone as well. I get in and run a clean 57.5. The best STU car is a 58.0 from Wiggy in an Evo RS. A great run no doubt. Good enough to move him into first place. Terry never could get clean and both of us slowed after this first fast run. We were within 0.5s of it though. Looking at the data the lateral acceleration numbers decreased on every run. We were spraying the tires, but I think the dead AD07 was just getting worse and worse. No biggie, the car is proving it's potential besting STU by 0.5s each day even if not by the same driver.

We move the car as we did the day before to let Amy run. Unfortunately the tires were getting worse and worse. Her lateral numbers were going down. She eeked out a 58.5. Her combined times would have given her 2nd place in STU Open. Her last run looked great but was 2 seconds slower! Again, looking at the data, the car just got worse and worse. We end the day excited. The car is a blast to drive on the track and at the autocross. With the new cat it sounds so mean when it shifts. We love it!



Vorshlag drivers in other classes did great too. Gerry won E Stock with AST 4100s by 1.8s, ASTs were on a C6 ZO6 that got 3rd behind nationals level drivers. 0.5s out of first. This was his second event on shocks! The ST Civic we help with won overall, Matt Lucas too, and many other strong finishes. Our STU drivers had some cone troubles but had good raw times. Roger Johnson courses are evil, I'll leave it at that. Can't forget Stuart Maxcy and his A Stock win. This AST 5200s will be on the car in a few weeks!



We pack things up during a break, complete our work assignment then head for Dallas at about 2PM. I check the results from the car and we were DSQ'd today? What the heck? Since we were so far back, we never checked the times. We call Gerry Terranova who checks for us. Apparently we didn't "dot our I's" when we moved the car for Amy's runs and the Impound Chief got us DSQ'd. We were standing 50 yards from the grid. Why didn't anyone ASK us why we moved or where we were? Oh, no, just DSQ them even though the car stayed in grid. For the record, we're aware of the rule of not leaving grid and would never do so, but we also had to get a car ready for the next driver. This happens all the time at Nationals where you have to DRIVE distances to other spots not even staying in the same area. We were just baffled at a Tour that someone would assume the worst. Whatever, we're calling today to argue the case and frankly discuss other concerns we had at the event.

We get into the heart of South Houston (a lovely place btw) and I hear a strange noise from the trailer. Terry looks back and smoke is bellowing out from the passenger side fender. Great! A blowout on a new tire? Amy as calm and collected as she always is pulls off the highway into a Bail Bonds parking lot. You get the picture where we are? Terry and I inspect the trailer to find the leaf spring broken (and missing parts) on the rear axle. The tire was lodged in the fender which made for the smoke. We call in the soldiers.



Before you know it, we have an army of people surrounding us which is good in this part of town. Jason McCall, Paul Magyar, Matt Lucas, Chris Ledbetter, Kurt Janish (Mr. Tools), Greg Piper show up along with Gerry Terranova. It was a party in South H! Terry and Jason run to Northern Tools and buy a leaf spring and new hardware. Kurt, me and everyone else work at breaking all the rusted bolts off. We broke one bolt so Terry and Gerry had to run back to the store. We had everything ready to go once they got back and we were off again. Only a two hour delay. Thanks again for everyone and their help. I wasn't too excited about leaving the Evo to go get parts. It definitely would have been missing wheels at a minimum.

We made it back in one piece around 10PM, a LONG weekend for sure. While we didn't get to compete in STU we're pretty happy with the car. It really handles well. I can't wait to see what it does four equal, on current generation ST tires. Should be interesting!
hancheyb
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:123


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07 Apr 2009 09:51 AM

A video of Terry's 1st run the second day.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery...3zjHB-A-LB

Fair
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Posts:1021


--
21 Apr 2009 01:28 AM
Lots of little updates for the EVO lately, even though we've been working mostly on final assembly of the new 550hp LS2 motor for our BMW E36. We added some new shocks last week - Brian installed inverted AST 5200s last Thursday - and we added our first bit of bling (headlight covers). We also got a replacement 265mm AD07 tire for the one that blew out the day before the Houston Tour (the last remnants of tread on the "old" 265 we had thrown on for that event were literally crumbling!)

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[I]XPEL yellow headlight covers. Hopefully the distinctive yellow lighting will help clear away traffic at TT events[/I]

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[I]L: remote reservoirs are temporarily mounted to the strut brace. R: AST 5200 front strut for EVO X[/I]

The AST 4200 shocks came off, were cleaned up, and immediately shipped out to Edmunds.com for use on their EVO X GSR track car project, in which they hope to beat a Nissan GTR on track. They've got a good, proven setup in their hands that should do just that!

After our NASA @ TWS weekend plans were rained out (that event saw "wrath of god" rains on Saturday - we made the right choice!), Amy and I decided to enter the local SCCA autocross event in the EVO ([URL="http://www.autocross.com/tr/modules/content/index.php?id=81"]Pennington Field, April 19, 2009[/URL]). And we went full boat lazy: packed up the helmets and camera gear and just drove out there on the Yokohamas. Sometimes, very rarely, I [I]do[/I] like racing in Street Touring. [H]

Event [B]Picture Gallery[/B]: [URL="http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/7951754_R7dsW"]here[/URL]

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We're still (still) waiting on our next set of 245mm ST tires so we ran on the 265mm Yokohama AD07s. These are the full tread track tires Brian has been running at NASA Time Trials and other DEs, as well as what we ran at the Houston Tour. Since they are wider than the STU class max of 245mm we ran in BSP, naturally. Not exactly the hot ticket for that class but we mostly went to test the new AST 5200s, and of course to compare with the local STU times.

We got to the site, slapped on the "BSP" magnetics, and pulled into the tech line. After working first heat announcing I got the car to grid. Amy and I ran in heat 2, but she ran in the pax factored "Womens" class (lets her run one class but jump around in cars all year if she wants) but I ran in BSP. I was running in the "X" Pro class, which is also Pax factored, but was getting [I]killed [/I]by all of the National Champions in Mod cars that run this class (which tend to do VERY well on the ~30 second/smallish courses our region favors at some sites). Running BSP also gave me a [I]slightly [/I]better chance at winning $50 per event from [B]Don Herring Mitsubishi[/B] (this local dealership pays $50 per class win and $500 for an annual class win in any Mitsubishi), too.

So first run Amy had some trouble remembering the course and DNF'd in a very tight offset at the finish. Checked tire pressures (32F/30R) and I made a run with a passenger. STU had run in heat one and finished with a 36.7 as the fastest run. My first run, with some herky jerkiness at the rear, was a 35.6 so I was off to a good start. The shock settings were a total guess with this new 5200 set-up, so I dropped compression in front & rebound in rear and it settled down a good bit out back. I managed to clock off 4 clean runs with my fastest on my 3rd being a 35.2 (video shown below).

[URL="http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/4882794_PPm2C#517394294_kncNs-A-LB"]SCCAForums Image
[I]on-car video from my 3rd run. The vidcam roof mount is still terrible - its the mount shaking, not the car[/I][/URL]

The car felt incredible - immediate turn-in, super crisp transitions, great mid-corner grip, staggering stopping power, and incredible corner exit acceleration. The SST trans was working its magic in S-Sport mode again, performing perfect 1st-2nd-3rd upshifts coming out of each tight turn around. There was a point right after the start where the speeds dictated an upshift mid corner from 1st to 2nd - which was seamless, didn't unsettle the car, and forward acceleration never ceased. This transmission is the hottest thing since sliced bread. [Y]

Amy had some minor driving troubles - a first run DNF, 2 coned runs, and she caught her hand in the paddle shifter on her 4th run causing some sideways antics - and finished the day uncharacteristically off pace. She's usually right there with me, or beating my times.

Results: [url]http://www.autocross.com/tr/modules/content/index.php?id=81[/url]

My 3rd and 4th runs felt great but we're still lacking about 1/2 second of performance for STU. Using the STU pax I was only 9th out of 145 cars, and that's not nearly good enough. Using the BSP pax I was way down in 27th, yuck. The 245mm tires will change things, but we suspect these full tread 265mm AD07s won't be any better than modern ST rubber in 245mm and shaved under 5/32". We have got to get the final STU wheels and tires in our hands [I]soon [/I]to get some much needed testing underway - its pretty damn late in the season to be picking tires, but some of the new ones we want to test [I]still [/I]aren't out yet in the sizes we need.

So up next we have the following potential upgrades:
[LIST]
[*]The latest and greatest in ST approved 245mm tires (Toyo, Bridgestone, or Yokohama - we don't know yet)
[*]Lighter 18x9.5" wheels
[*]Sparco harness bar and 6 point harness
[*]Lighter fixed back racing seats
[*]Possibly a set of [I]lighter [/I]front brakes
[*]Much more setup testing at an upcoming Vorshlag Test-N-Tune practice event
[/LIST]

Brian and I wouldn't mind running 285mm Hoosiers on this thing and moving to BSP for good, but that doesn't really fit with the original multi-purpose street/track/autocross plan for this car, as full-tilt Street Prepared prep does push a car a bit beyond the streetable daily driver (unlimited boost, unlimited EFI/intake, no emissions). I hope we're not too disappointed with the grip from the 245mm ST tires when we get them on here. [:|]
hancheyb
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:123


--
11 May 2009 12:11 PM
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[I]Vorshlag EVO X MR sporting the new Yokohama ADVAN stickers[/I]

Another update on the Evo. We joined the [B]North Texas Evo Club[/B] for a HPDE / test day at [B]Harris Hill Road[/B] (in San Marcos, TX) on Friday. Nothing like a 20 hour day to start your weekend. We were up at 4AM and got home at midnight. But I can say it was well worth it! Nothing like spending the day at a great track, great friends, and a great car.

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[I]The wheels stayed this clean for about.... one lap[/I]

The track day didn't start till 1PM, but we were able to pay extra to do some lapping in the morning (both Hanchey and Fair driving the EVO). We had not run at HHR with the new spring rates, new AD07s or AST 5200s. Of course the track conditions are not identical, but if you're down there, why not? We started out re-familiarizing ourselves with the track then we made some swaybar changes and some shock setting changes. When we were here in March the car had a considerable push. Most of this was gone, but not all of it, unfortunately. HHR has some challenging off-camber turns that don't help, but we kept changing the rear bar to try and help the situation. The front bar needed to be softened but the schedule didn't allow for changing it. The rear bar takes 5 minutes to change; The front you really have to jack up both sides and remove a wheel to do it.

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[I]Fully loaded in a corner, making right at 1.25g lateral grip. As you can see the -4° static front camber setting is perfect when loaded[/I]

The car did drop a second or so in lap times going from high 1:30s to high 1:29s. It is hard to take data from the same car running one day with temps in the lower 70°F range to another day where its 100°F outside on street tires and get a good comparison. The full thread Yoks were extremely hot after only a few laps (too hot to touch).

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[I]The downhill Turn 5 is a total blast![/I]

Good news though, the Dual Clutch Semi Automatic transmission never overheated, even with the high temperatures and two drivers beating on the Evo all day. Bad news, though, Terry [I]DID [/I]overheat. He got sent to the nurse's station. Note to Terry, Diet Coke does NOT replenish fluids. :) Looks like we'll need to put a Spal fan on his head or something. It [I]IS [/I]only May after all.

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[I]People drinking water were smart - Fair wishes he had done the same![/I]

Overall the day was really fun. We both instructed students and ran in the instructor's group. This pretty much left zero time in the afternoon to play with the car, as we'd hop from car to car after each run group ended. We did get to try out our new datatoys.com Sony 580 line bullet camera connected to our Aiptek A-HD video camera. We had an external microphone as well and spent each session trying to find a place to hide the mic from wind noise. We didn't have foam to cover it up but next time we will, because no place is safe from wind noise in the Evo.

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[I]Sean Goodpasture was flying in his EVO X GSR[/I]

Towards the end of the day I was frantically making changes trying to eek out that last bit of precious test time. The car had a push on corner exit that you'll see in the video. I kept adding rear compression towards the end of the day and it finally worked! The last runs I made you'd hear the tires squealing in mid corner and as soon as you touched the gas the car would launch out of corners. Of course, I didn't get those faster laps on video or data logged, but the feel was dramatically different. Ugh.

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[I]Ian Peebles was quick in his RX8 on Toyo R888s, and instructed throughout the day[/I]

We were a bit rushed getting the car ready for this event in the week leading up to it. It really needs another alignment, the ride height reset and the corner heights and cross weights re-balanced. I replaced the rear spring perches with longer ones the day before we left and was not able to re-adjust the height at the rear. I think it shows because you can see in the video that it doesn't pull as many g's in left handers as right (2nd video). We were seeing 1.25g lateral.

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[I]The Turn 4 & 5 up/downhill complex is a signature of Harris Hill Road's beautiful course[/I]

Here's a sample of the new camera + trackvision software (we just purchased this today) + DL1 data overlaid. You'll notice the ~1:30 lap time. This was late in the day with over 100°F air temps. We were both going faster in the morning.

In Car Video
[url="http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/4882794_PPm2C#533019967_NhUS8-A-LB"]SCCAForums Image[/url]

In Car Video with TrackVision overlay:
[url="http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/4882794_PPm2C#533861843_tE7ZZ-A-LB"]SCCAForums Image[/url]

Next up we're going to try Race Technology's new Dash 3 display + out DL-1 in the Evo. This will give us lap time readouts real time, as we're driving, which will help with testing. Instead of having to come in to look at the data, we can made decisions more quickly. Also, since Time Trial is about the fastest lap this will help us to see if we're going faster or just wasting tires and equipment. Yes, these lap time display units have been out for a while, but there hasn't been a good one to use with the DL-1 untill now. The DL-1 can also take OBDII data and record it and/or display it on the Dash 3 in real time. Should be nice to see all this.

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[I]There were a minimum of "offs" - everyone kept it clean and safe[/I]

Here are all of the pictures: [url]http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/8178120_W5ZoX[/url]

[i](pictures and editing added by Fair)[/i]
Fair
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:1021


--
14 Jul 2009 08:06 AM
A belated update on wheel studs, spacers and lug nuts. The EVO X MR uses lug-centric wheels from the factory, meaning, the wheel doesn't fit snugly to a hub, but is rather located by a long shank on a square shoulder lug nut. Its not ideal, but that's the way the factory chose to do it. The factory lug nuts therefore don't fit most aftermarket wheels, which tend to be built to utilize a tapered seat lug nut. So whenever we switch from the stock wheels to the Enkeis or CCWs we have to swap lug nuts. Not a problem for us, as we have thousands of tapered seat, M12-1.5 thread pitch, open ended lug nuts in stock.

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[I]Stock length rear studs (left) vs long wheel studs (right) on the front of our EVO X[/I]

Since the Enkei NT03+M 18x10.5" wheels didn't need a spacer so we used the stock wheel studs and our tapered seat lug nuts. Going to the 18x10 RPF1 Enkeis we needed to use a 15mm spacer in front, to clear the calipers. This entailed the use of longer wheel studs, so we used the 3" long ARP press-in studs. There's a detailed instruction guide [URL="http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/gallery/8682376_asLvf"]here[/URL].

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These have worked great for both sets of Enkeis and the CCWs. About a week ago I had the stock ADVAN tires remounted on the stock MR wheels. We have race or street touring tires mounted on all the other sets, so it was time to put the stock wheels back into use. I go to plop the wheels on and went to grab the factory shank style lug nuts and ... oops... then are a closed in lug nut. This won't work with 3" long wheel studs. What to do?!

I looked for another 10 replacement lug-centric style M12-1.5 lug nuts and I was going to cut the tops off, making them "open ended". A quick check of auto parts and tires stores reveals that Mitsu uses a proprietary shank length, so its dealership time. Bah, I'll just cut the stock nuts for now.

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Chucked each lug nut in the lathe and cut the tops off. This doesn't weaken the lug nut, as its simply a cosmetic cover. Now the stock lugs work on the stock wheels with the longer studs. Cool.
Fair
Veteran Member
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Posts:1021


--
14 Jul 2009 08:07 AM
Wheel dilemma = solved (using two different wheels for the moment)

Here's the weights on the stock wheel & ADVAN tire package, the CCW 18x10 with 245 AD08 ADVANS and the latest 18x10 Enkei RPF1 wheel and 245 mm AD08 setup we're using on the front:

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[I]Factory EVO MR 18x8.5" wheel and 245mm Advan tire, 46.8 pounds[/I]

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[I]CCW 3-piece 18x10" wheel and Yokohama ADVAN AD08 tire in 245/40/18 is 47.5 pounds[/I]

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[I]Enkei RPF1 18x10 with ET38 offset wheel (wheel was 19.1 lbs) and 245 mm AD08 = 46.3 lbs[/I]

So our latest 18x10" setup is lighter than the stock, skinny wheels by half a pound. Not too shabby.

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[I]Front caliper clearance is the trick here. With 15mm of spacer up front the wheel would finally clear.[/I]

We had already test fit these particular Enkeis in the past and they fit beautifully in the rear, but we could only find two of these wheels in the country. So we got two of them last week, found the spacer combination needed to clear the front caliper (15mm), and ran them up front with the CCW 18x10 on back. Once we can source 2 more of the Enkeis we'll put them on the rear and sell the CCWs.

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[I]The rear fits easily with the 6.7" backspace 18x10" CCW. It has 20mm clearance to the control arm and rear shock's spring perch[/I]

This unusual wheel setup finally allowed us to run the new Yokohama 245/40/18 AD08s at an autocross this past weekend. I have to say - these tires are awesome. 8)
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