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Last Post 01 Feb 2009 11:23 PM by  SKOOBIE
Street Tire Classes for Next Season
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Lehrschall
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25 Nov 2008 11:11 PM

    Pan Am Region Members and Friends,

    Several weeks ago I sent out e-mail requests for ideas on how we might increase our events' attendance. One of the ideas was repeated, especially by those who have driven long distances to participate in past Solo (autocross) events. That is the idea of creating a separate class for those who are running "street tires." Since I trailer my car and went through three new sets of Hoosiers this past season, I understand the extra time, cost, and hassle. I'm running R-comp tires on Sunday and then switching to my rock-hard KDWS tires for back and forth to work driving. This includes a camber re-alignment each way. Without question, running R-comp tires requires more money and effort.

    With the possible exception of the STS, STX, ST... classes our current setup not only favors those running R-comp tires in individual classes, it makes it virtually impossible to be competive without them. We have not worked out all the details such as exactly what wear rating would define a "street tire", but we have agreed that we will have a street tire class next year with vehicles competing in a newly created open class based upon their PAX times like we do today with the Rookie and Ladies classes.

    I've done a little research on tires for my vehicle. There are a lot of highly rated tires in the 220 to 280 wear rating range that cost nearly as much as my R-comps. There are also a few vehicles that come with 140 rated tires as a stock option. Like I said before, we have details to sort out. I'm not sold on them yet, but I'm sure we'll have enough sign up to make it worth while. Think of it as our regular PAX competition, but as an added "T-PAX", "PAX-T", or something along those lines. - Dave

    rtp.rick
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    26 Nov 2008 06:17 AM

    It seems most Region's "Street Tire" classes use a 140 tread wear rating, or higher. I'm sure it goes without saying that the "Touring" classes must not be allowed to compete in your Street Tire class because their index factors are already based on the use of street tires with a 140 tread wear rating, or higher.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    Deviousjet
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    26 Nov 2008 11:52 AM
    So how would this Affect STS STU, etc....
    rtp.rick
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    26 Nov 2008 04:00 PM

    Deviousjet wrote:
    So how would this Affect STS STU, etc....

    It wouldn't affect them at all. It's simply a combination class of all those cars that currently run in the other "regular" classes using street tires and, therefore, aren't competitive with those on the allowed "R" compound tires. The Street Touring classes would just continue on as they have been.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    Lehrschall
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    27 Nov 2008 01:45 AM
    rtp.rick wrote:

    Deviousjet wrote:
    So how would this Affect STS STU, etc....

    It wouldn't affect them at all. It's simply a combination class of all those cars that currently run in the other "regular" classes using street tires and, therefore, aren't competitive with those on the allowed "R" compound tires. The Street Touring classes would just continue on as they have been.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    We are still putting this together. If you qualify for a Street Touring class, you will still be allowed to compete in that class. Rick's summary is along the same lines we've discussed and presented in the last membership meeting. As I set up the classes next year, I would simply add an open class for tires. The software would allow us to use this like we do for grouping rookies who then compete against each other based upon PAX times. The other classes would not be affected other than some migration from specific classes. Participants would choose between running in one of these classes with potential R-comp competition or running in the Tires class. (They could switch back and forth, but then they would only accumulate championship points in either Tires or one or the other standard classes). We have not decided what wear rating we will use for the cut-off. 140 gets much closer to R-comp performance than the 220 / 240 ratings and comes stock on several vehicles. However, we need to consider whether this meets the request of many members to compete in a class with basic, low-cost tires. This will be a local decision and we are still looking for input from those who are interested.

    Dave

    Lehrschall
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    04 Dec 2008 02:07 AM
    My plans for next year are to switch to STU class and run street tires. Mustangs, Camaros, etc., aren't showing up to compete (must be busy polishing them) so I'm going to wade in to the flat four - all wheel drive pool next year.
    SonLight
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    04 Dec 2008 08:40 AM

    Come on Dave, don't back up! Step up to a Corvette, there are lots of bargains out there.

    Besides think of all the cool [H] people you can hang out with.

    Zoom-Zoom
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    04 Jan 2009 08:07 PM
    Any new updats on this new "street tire" class?
    Lehrschall
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    16 Jan 2009 12:15 AM
    We will have a Street Tire class for 2009. We are still working out the details and will finalize these in our next (February 2009) membership meeting. Please watch our Pan Am Region website for our Street Tire Class information.
    Lehrschall
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    22 Jan 2009 11:00 PM

    PAR Members and PAR Competitors,

    The attached PDF file includes two options for implementing street tire options for our 2009 Pan Am Region Solo championships. We will discuss and finalize an option at our upcoming February membership meeting. The first option would use a single factor applied to all "Tires" entries. The second option would involve assigning a modified, reduced PAX Index to each class. The targeted difference is 2 seconds for each class using the most recent winning times for each class on our .8 to .9 mile courses. Please provide feedback or suggestions on what you would like to see in our Street Tire scoring plan.

    Dave

    rtp.rick
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    23 Jan 2009 05:48 AM

    I'm sure you know, andI realize the table is just for conversation's sake, but it uses last year's PAX/RTP factors. The new 2009 factors are at http://scca-chicago.com/solo/indexe...p2009.html

    Hope that helps.

    BTW, most groups (Regions) that use modified PAX/RTP factors for street tires, use .980 as the "equalizer".

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    .

    Lehrschall
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    23 Jan 2009 09:04 PM

    Rick,

    Thank you. I appreciate your comments. I'm going to compete in STU this year, but as you can see, we're trying to come up with a street tire plan that will attract people who would not join otherwise. You are correct, the option A proposal and reference calculations were based upon the 2008 PAX Index. I was trying to see if the 2 second target would be different across the classes. It showed that it was with a single factor. I ended up with a proposal to use .977 if we went with a single factor. It's interesting that it came close to the .980 factor you noted.

    I like the added tire classes better. I did those calculations using the 2009 PAX Index.

    I noted at the bottom of this that the PAX Index was developed by Rick Ruth. I've been doing timing and scoring for about 3 years. I'm an engineer and work a lot with statistics. I've been impressed with the PAX Index (although I wish my GTO's ESP PAX had been lower last year). Are you the Rick Ruth who developed this?

    Dave

    rtp.rick
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    25 Jan 2009 06:22 PM

    Yes and no. I am the current PAX/RTP Administrator. Have been since 2002, when the PAX and (my) RTP Indices were combined.

    I did not originate the PAX Index, though. That was done back in the ''70's by Jim McKamey and George Saxton. It was invented in order to determine a "Grand Champion" of the Portage Grand Prix in Portage, Indiana.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    Lehrschall
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    31 Jan 2009 07:21 PM

    Current and Past PAR Solo Participants,

    We will be finalizing our Street Tire plans Monday, February 2, at our 7:00 PM membership meeting. I've included information and suggestions in this thread and |I've sent e-mails to every recent autocrosser address I could find. To date, I've had several great suggestions and comments from autocrossers outside our region and one r-comp driver. We are doing this for you. Where are your comments?

    Dave

    SKOOBIE
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    01 Feb 2009 11:23 PM
    I have to work that night.....great
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