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Last Post 14 Mar 2009 03:54 PM by  BARTHII
Street Tire Decision Has Been Made!
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Lehrschall
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05 Feb 2009 09:42 PM

    I presented options for this season's Street Tire scoring plan during this week's February 2nd membership meeting. The group decided the single "t" factor (0.977) multiplied times the calculated PAX time would be the best option. The following rules for eligibility were also adopted.

    Street Tire Class

    This class is open to all competitors, both rookie and veteran solo competitors.

    You must establish (by your second championship event) that you intend to compete for yearend points for this unique class.

    Eligibility:

    A. Any vehicle that is prepared to the 2008 / 2009 SCCA Solo Rulebook, regardless of class (Stock, Street Prepared, STS, STS2, STX, STU, Street Modified, Prepared, and full Modified)

    may compete in this class.

    B. The vehicle must compete on any DOT approved "True" street tire with a 200 treadwear rating or higher. The only exception to this minimum 200 treadwear requirement is:

    (1) If the vehicle was specifically delivered from the manufacturer with (not as an available option or dealer installed) OEM tires that had a treadwear rating of at least 140, it will be allowed to compete on the exact same original (tire model and brand) OEM tire that the vehicle was originally equipped and delivered on. *Full (manufacturer's owner and / or

    factory service manual, window sticker, etc.) documentation must be available and in possession at all times by the competitor and / or owner of the vehicle. If no documentation can be provided by the competitor and / or owner, the vehicle will be bumped into it's respective "Open Classification."

    (2) This street tire class will be afforded approximately a 2 second raw time handicap (based upon it's respective vehicle classification) by multiplying the standard PAX time by .977 for “t” classed cars. This is intended to narrow the gap between street tire entries and competitors that are running on DOT R-compound tires and full racing rubber.

    (3) All tire models and brands that are listed in the 2008 / 2009 SCCA Solo Rulebook are eligible for use on all the Street Touring classes (STS, STS2, STX, STU) are not legal or eligible for use in the Pan Am "Street Tire" class. If a tire model or brand from that list has at least a 200 treadwear rating or higher, then it may be used in our "Street Tire" class.

    Dave

    SKOOBIE
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    06 Feb 2009 12:25 PM
    there went that idea......
    Lehrschall
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    07 Feb 2009 09:27 AM

    Skoobie,

    I thought you were going to run in STU with me!

    Dave

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    08 Feb 2009 11:48 PM

    Very nice!

    Can't wait for this season!

    rtp.rick
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    09 Feb 2009 05:07 AM

    You do understand that the Street Touring classes (ST, STS, STX & STU) have their Index factor already based on the use of Street Tires, right? I understand that you're not allowing tread wear ratings as low as what's allowed in those classes, but that difference won't be near as much as the difference to "R" compounds in the other classes. I think, by definition, you should eliminate the four Touring classes from the mix, otherwise they will have an extreme advantage.

    BTW, ST & STS have new designations for 2009.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    Lehrschall
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    09 Feb 2009 09:57 PM

    Rick,

    Yes. I tried to explain this, but we had so many issues going at the time, I think the group got confused. My vehicle ran in ESP last year (this year's ESP PAX would be .846). I put Kumho Ecsta XS tires with a wear rating of 180 and move to STU. My PAX goes to .836. If I ran 200 or higher treadwear tires I would get another break to .817 for PAX. This is a 2.3 second break on actual time for a 65 second course.

    We will continue to talk about it.

    Dave

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    10 Feb 2009 03:06 AM
    What would happen if I moved up in class? I've been thinking about it; Moving from STS into FSP. I can't remember if anyone else is running in FSP. I wonder if my chances would be as great running FSP than in STS, but being in the new Street Tire Class? Thoughts?
    Lehrschall
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    10 Feb 2009 10:28 PM

    This depends a lot on whether you are currently eligible to run in either STS or FSP without further mods or the tires you have. If you are eligible for either class, clearly your chances of placing higher in the overall PAX championsip would be better in STS (PAX .820) than in FSP (PAX .831). If you are running r-comp tires you would not qualify for STS or the Street Tire open class. If you run tires with a treadwear rating of 200 or higher, you could run in FSP-Tires (PAX .831 X .977 Tire Factor = .812) . Please do not count on applying the "Tires Factor" to the Street Touring classes including STS. Our current position is that this would apply, but because the Street Touring classes are spun off the Street Prepared classes with both a tire restriction and compensating PAX, this arrangement would provide a second PAX break for just a street tire selection. Moving from FSP to STS would have already given you a "tires" adjustment as noted above. Multiplying this again with a "Tires" advantage was not our intent.

    The FSP class had very little participation last year. We did not have competitors run enough events in the class to qualify for a trophy. You might target an "empty class" if you want a trophy, but it's a lot more fun to compete against others. I'm not suggesting that you spend extra money to line up with others. I would try to run in a class with others. Not only will they compete with you, but they will generally include you in their group and help you to improve your car and driving skills.

    Dave

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    11 Feb 2009 12:05 AM

    Yeah I was trying to look for FSP competitiors from last years events and I couldn't find anything. I was just thinking of moving to a wider wheel 17x8'', which would put me in FSP. If I went with a wider wheel I was planning on getting a 200 tread wear tire as well, 235/40/17 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs to be exact. Still keeping me in junction to the new "Street Tire" class.

    Now that I didn't see any competitors running in FSP, I might just stay in STS and just upgrade my tires to the Z1 Star Specs. I would rather compete with others and see how I compare with their times than be in an "empty class."

    Thanks Dave!

    -Mario

    SKOOBIE
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    11 Feb 2009 05:16 PM

    Why not run STU class? still a "street tire".

    There will be some other cars as well.

    Zoom-Zoom
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    12 Feb 2009 03:29 AM

    Wait... I don't know if I'm seeing this right. If I were to move up a class from STS I'd be in FSP and from there it would be STU? The upgrade I'm looking into is going with a 17x8 wheel, with a 235/40 street tire.

    Lehrschall
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    12 Feb 2009 10:16 PM

    Mario,

    I'm not sure of the mods you have on your car, but I would suggest studying the street touring rules for 2009 before taking the next step. The move to a 17 x 8 wheel takes you 1/2" beyond the STS limit. I don't know what your current wheel widths are, but if this 1/2" beyond the STS limit of 7 1/2" bumps you from STS to STX (the next level) you could go as wide as 9" for 2WD and a wider tire if it will fit. If you are buying the wheels to accomodate the 235/40 tires, re-check the wheel width requirements with TireRack.Com. I believe you can fit these on narrower wheel.

    If you go to FSP, tire and wheel size options are much more open. If you run tires that qualify for the Street Tire category your combined PAX and Tire Factor would put you at just about the basic STS |PAX.

    Dave

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    17 Feb 2009 04:19 PM

    That cleared it up for me. I did look at the 2009 solo rules, and just got a little confused, it all makes sense now. I might just stick to STS for now. I'm still undesided about going with a 8'' wide wheel. I do however want to get a better tire, but still stay within the Street Tire category. Maybe a 235/40 would fit on my 7.5'' wide wheel. I might have some rubbing issues, I will have to look more into it. Thanks Dave.

    -Mario

    Deviousjet
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    19 Feb 2009 03:46 PM

    So anything goes in the street tire class. Meaning that I could have full suspension turbocharged, etc... and still be able to compete in the street tire class as long as I have a treadwear rating of 200 and higher? Or is it I can compete in STS But now there's a T on the end of it because I run those tires? I'm confused.

    Lehrschall
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    20 Feb 2009 09:55 PM

    Mario,

    The first part of your statement is true. We are adding a "t" to any vehicle´s class. The group of Street Touring Classes (STS, STU, STX, for example) are already given a street tire advantage. As I noted above, I will ask the PAR to exclude the Street Touring Classes from getting a 2nd "tires" adjustment. We should have this decided one way or the other before our first event.

    Dave

    BARTHII
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    12 Mar 2009 11:31 PM

    Dave,

    I am curious as to what happened here. You stated here that the Street Touring classes would NOT be included in the tires class as not to recieve a second adjustment, but Mario was in fact placed in the ST(tires) PAX giving him the second adjustment. I'm not trying to take anything away from you Mario, I just want to be fair all around. Thanx for your time.

    Robert

    Lehrschall
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    13 Mar 2009 08:44 PM

    Robert,

    Actually, I stated that I saw this as a second adjustment and that I would take this to the membership and ask that they vote to change this. The membership did not agree with me. They felt that the 200 wear rating break point was significant enough to justify the (second?) tire adjustment and voted against my suggestion. (Check the meeting minutes).

    Dave

    BARTHII
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    14 Mar 2009 03:54 PM

    OH Ok I don't remember reading the minutes from the last meeting so that is were I went wrong. I apologize for the misunderstand although I don't agree that the Street touring class should be getting the second adjustment. I guess thats what I get for not making it to the meetings LOL. Can't wait for the 22nd. See everyone there!!!

    Robert

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