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Last Post 27 Oct 2014 05:05 PM by  t walgamuth
New C mod in the INdy region
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16 Dec 2010 12:08 PM
Okay...throw me some numbers.
What should total investment on a CM car look like to get it ready for good solo competition?
What do tires cost and how long do they last?

Street tires suck. I wanna go fast again.


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Posts:493
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16 Dec 2010 01:32 PM
DigDloppyFonkeyBick wrote:
Okay...throw me some numbers.
What should total investment on a CM car look like to get it ready for good solo competition?
What do tires cost and how long do they last?

Street tires suck. I wanna go fast again.

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/fo...cope/posts

Geoff, Tom and I all bought cars around $6500... Pull the fire system, add autox gears and fresh rubber. Have fun.



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16 Dec 2010 06:56 PM
Can't wait to see it in action, Tom!!!!


Advanced Member


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16 Dec 2010 08:13 PM
jchiu wrote:
Tom, we never figured out what the hell that 'Lilly's' place was... What a weird place.

Lilly's was a place which had a small reception area with a couple of chairs and a small bar out by the front door in the strip mall. It had a long hallway and a door at the end. On the outside door was a sign that read that you had to ring a bell to get in. It looked for all the world like a house of ill repute.;)

Is that legal in WVA?

We were gonna ask a local about it but never got around to it.



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Posts:1928
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17 Dec 2010 11:26 AM
Locked wrote:
DigDloppyFonkeyBick wrote:
Okay...throw me some numbers.
What should total investment on a CM car look like to get it ready for good solo competition?
What do tires cost and how long do they last?

Street tires suck. I wanna go fast again.

http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/fo...cope/posts

Geoff, Tom and I all bought cars around $6500... Pull the fire system, add autox gears and fresh rubber. Have fun.

Not only that but all of the cars we bought should be Nationally competitive with just some tuning, adjustments and a new set of Hoosiers. You can't get that with any ST* cars.

I was kinda thinking... I'm guessing most of us have a spare set of wheels for our FF cars. How would you guys feel about having a set of "local" tires for the season? We all start the season with a fresh set of tires and use them for all the local events. Might save us money and, more importantly, keep any of us from going crazy buying tires unnecessarily. I know the guys in Louisville used to do this. Just a thought...



Basic Member


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17 Dec 2010 12:37 PM
Last year Mark and I didn't run a regional event on anything below 70+ run tires, except testing the Diemen at TH.

We had new for blythville, wrapped them and stored those for Peru. The put 2 new on the rear after peru and swapped between those and the other "tour" tires for div events, same fronts (marks car oversteers, :smile: ). New for nationals, and used those for TH and blytheville.

Mark pulled some rocks out of the shed for me to use as transport tires. I'm planning to use those locally until I build up some runs in a set of "tour" tires. Basically, don't fear me "out tire-ing" anyone locally.


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Posts:931
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17 Dec 2010 12:40 PM
GChambers wrote:

I was kinda thinking... I'm guessing most of us have a spare set of wheels for our FF cars. How would you guys feel about having a set of "local" tires for the season? We all start the season with a fresh set of tires and use them for all the local events. Might save us money and, more importantly, keep any of us from going crazy buying tires unnecessarily. I know the guys in Louisville used to do this. Just a thought...

I'm not in your area but I like the idea since it means single driver cars will end up with better tires to compensate for no tire warmer :-)

Can we do something like that for Tours and Nationals? :-)

Dick

CM85

85VD . . . in CM since 1992



Veteran Member


Posts:1928
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17 Dec 2010 01:15 PM
DigDloppyFonkeyBick wrote:
Okay...throw me some numbers.
What should total investment on a CM car look like to get it ready for good solo competition?
What do tires cost and how long do they last?

Street tires suck. I wanna go fast again.

Check this one out....

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...ostcount=9



Veteran Member


Posts:1928
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17 Dec 2010 01:18 PM
Dick Rasmussen wrote:
GChambers wrote:

I was kinda thinking... I'm guessing most of us have a spare set of wheels for our FF cars. How would you guys feel about having a set of "local" tires for the season? We all start the season with a fresh set of tires and use them for all the local events. Might save us money and, more importantly, keep any of us from going crazy buying tires unnecessarily. I know the guys in Louisville used to do this. Just a thought...

I'm not in your area but I like the idea since it means single driver cars will end up with better tires to compensate for no tire warmer :-)

Can we do something like that for Tours and Nationals? :-)

Dick

CM85

85VD . . . in CM since 1992

Dick, I thought it was the heat cycles that killed the tires, not the number of runs. With a single driver there should be roughly the same number of heat cycles as with two driver cars, correct?



Advanced Member


Posts:931
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17 Dec 2010 02:37 PM
GChambers wrote:
Dick Rasmussen wrote:
GChambers wrote:

I was kinda thinking... I'm guessing most of us have a spare set of wheels for our FF cars. How would you guys feel about having a set of "local" tires for the season? We all start the season with a fresh set of tires and use them for all the local events. Might save us money and, more importantly, keep any of us from going crazy buying tires unnecessarily. I know the guys in Louisville used to do this. Just a thought...

I'm not in your area but I like the idea since it means single driver cars will end up with better tires to compensate for no tire warmer :-)

Can we do something like that for Tours and Nationals? :-)

Dick

CM85

85VD . . . in CM since 1992

Dick, I thought it was the heat cycles that killed the tires, not the number of runs. With a single driver there should be roughly the same number of heat cycles as with two driver cars, correct?

Beats me. It just seemed like a "funny" thing to say. :-) For all I know "calendar time" (i.e. number of months since first run) may be just as important. Or time towing on an open trailer like I do. Or storing the car and tires in an enclosed trailer in hot weather like some guys apparently do. That said, I'm pretty sure that the more runs on a tire the more the "good stuff" tends to decrease. However, given that 2 driver cars do frequently have the "heat" advantage (unless cooling is needed) who knows?

Also keep in mind that professional racers who change tires during a race have ZERO heat cycles (or one if they scuffed them) and they go off and not necessarily because the tires are worn out.

However, guys with experience with the latest Hoosiers say that the tires hold up very well. I'm on my first set of those with a short season so maybe I'll be able to tell next Spring.

Dick



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Posts:673
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18 Dec 2010 07:17 PM

I went out today and removed a front wheel and tire. I wanted to weigh it. It weighs a few ounces less than 19#. The lug pattern and studs look substantially smaller than the miata. I had been told by the po that it was the same 4 x 100mm as the miata. I think maybe the spare steel wheels I got with it might not actually work. The lug nuts are made differently than any I have seen. They are pretty long and have a flat shoulder on them about 3/4" from the face of the hub. The disc is very small and less than 1/4" thick I would say.

I had to admire the nice Aero shaped suspension arms.



Advanced Member


Posts:931
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18 Dec 2010 10:19 PM

Tom,

Don't take this answer as "for sure" but I think the bolt circle is 3.75 inch if the Miata 100 mm doesn't fit. Wheel studs are likely to be 3/8" X 24. Rotor thickness front and rear for the normal LD-19 calipers is .29 inch. Dia less than 10 inches. The lug nuts are "shank" style which are used with some types of wheels. Looking at the pics you sent to me the wheels may be Revolutions or maybe Compomotives. FYI my car has centerlock wheels but the drive pins are probably on the same bolt circle. The Apex Speed guys can give you plenty of Reynard specific info. Note that at least for centerlocks the center hole in the wheel is different for Reynards than for Van Diemens and the centering ring is a matching OD.

http://www.mcgard.com/Applications/...0ucQ%3d%3d

Check out the rotor page of the Pegasus catalog for rotor info. FF doesn't need much brake.

Email me if you have anything I can help with.

Dick

85 VD

CM85




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Posts:673
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18 Dec 2010 10:58 PM
I'm trying to figure out what gears I have now, Ron the previous owner says it will go on track 119 mph. I am wondering about the speed in first and second gear with the current gears. Thanks for the info about the wheels. For autocross is there an advantage to the center lock wheel setup? I don't see how it could be much lighter than the four lugs.


Advanced Member


Posts:931
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19 Dec 2010 07:27 AM
Tom,

A couple of things:

Lug nut torque: Lotus Europas have 3/8" lug nuts. Specified torque is 40 - 45 lb-ft which might be a good starting point until an expert tells you differently. (I have a shop manual with the Lotus torque info)

Center lock wheel advantage: They look cool. Only one lug nut per wheel for tire changes. Don't know about weight but it would be "hub" weight rather than wheel weight I suspect. Per some old notes my front wheels/tires weigh about 18 -19 lbs and the rears are 23 - 24 lbs. In addition to the rear tires being bigger and heavier my rear wheels have significantly thicker center sections (3 piece Compomotives).

Gearing: Assuming you don't want to just pull the gears to check yet you could simply ask the po. what ratios are in the trans and what rpm he used to determine the 119. Was 119 "redline" or just terminal velocity for that track.

However, unless he raced on really slow tracks or with standing starts his FIRST gear is probably tall enough to be at least a 3rd gear for autox.

Did the purchase include a collection of other gear sets?

I don't know where you are on the transmission "learning curve" yet (it won't be hard to "climb" after you start) but please make sure you don't mix up gear sets. They come in pairs that should never be mixed up to my knowledge. The gears will be marked with both gear tooth counts such as 17:34 on one gear and 34:17 on the other (as I recall :-) )

There is a gears for sale ad on Apex this morning. Take a look at the pics. The bottom right pic looks like a 14:36 which could be a temporary first gear or a longer term second (51 mph) assuming 9:31 r&p. If still available, the 20:30 is an 88 mph gear and the 21:30 is 90 mph and the 23:29 is about 105 mph.


Basic Member


Posts:493
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19 Dec 2010 11:54 AM
Tom, send me an email and i'll get you the gear chart files. N l m y e r s at g m a i l . C o m


Advanced Member


Posts:931
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19 Dec 2010 09:43 PM
Tom,

The 14:36 gear is no longer the one at the bottom right. Look for the set with the smallest little gear relative to the bigger gear. I think there are two pictures.

Dick


Advanced Member


Posts:673
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19 Dec 2010 10:40 PM
Actually, Nick I am pretty sure I have such a chart already in the stuff the po gave me. I don't know what is in the car though.;)


Advanced Member


Posts:673
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19 Dec 2010 10:45 PM
I did not get any spare gears. I have asked the po what gears I have and I am not sure he knows, he just found them ok for what he was doing. He said he got the 119 mph by using a hand held GPI (is that the right term?).


New Member


Posts:
New Member


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19 Dec 2010 11:39 PM
t walgamuth wrote:
I did not get any spare gears. I have asked the po what gears I have and I am not sure he knows, he just found them ok for what he was doing. He said he got the 119 mph by using a hand held GPI (is that the right term?).

GPS



Advanced Member


Posts:673
Advanced Member


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20 Dec 2010 05:53 AM
Dick Rasmussen wrote:
Tom,

A couple of things:

Lug nut torque: Lotus Europas have 3/8" lug nuts. Specified torque is 40 - 45 lb-ft which might be a good starting point until an expert tells you differently. (I have a shop manual with the Lotus torque info)

Center lock wheel advantage: They look cool. Only one lug nut per wheel for tire changes. Don't know about weight but it would be "hub" weight rather than wheel weight I suspect. Per some old notes my front wheels/tires weigh about 18 -19 lbs and the rears are 23 - 24 lbs. In addition to the rear tires being bigger and heavier my rear wheels have significantly thicker center sections (3 piece Compomotives).

Gearing: Assuming you don't want to just pull the gears to check yet you could simply ask the po. what ratios are in the trans and what rpm he used to determine the 119. Was 119 "redline" or just terminal velocity for that track.

However, unless he raced on really slow tracks or with standing starts his FIRST gear is probably tall enough to be at least a 3rd gear for autox.

Did the purchase include a collection of other gear sets?

I don't know where you are on the transmission "learning curve" yet (it won't be hard to "climb" after you start) but please make sure you don't mix up gear sets. They come in pairs that should never be mixed up to my knowledge. The gears will be marked with both gear tooth counts such as 17:34 on one gear and 34:17 on the other (as I recall :-) )

There is a gears for sale ad on Apex this morning. Take a look at the pics. The bottom right pic looks like a 14:36 which could be a temporary first gear or a longer term second (51 mph) assuming 9:31 r&amp;p. If still available, the 20:30 is an 88 mph gear and the 21:30 is 90 mph and the 23:29 is about 105 mph.

The PO says it is one of the following:

9:31 R/P RATIO

a) 1ST GEAR - 19/32

b) 2ND GEAR - 22/30

c) 3RD GEAR - 24/28

d) 4TH GEAR - 25/25 or 26/26 (no mixing)

4TH GEAR - 25/25 or 26/26 (no mixing)

2) 10:31 R/P RATIO

e) 1ST GEAR - 18/34

f) 2ND GEAR - 20/30

g) 3RD GEAR - 22/29

h) 4TH GEAR - 24/27

He is trying to figure out which it is. I suppose if he cannot I may have to pull it all apart myself and see. Or I can perhaps rotate the wheels and see what it does....hmmm, on an old fashoned car I can rotate the wheel and count ds rotations but since there is no ds it would be rotating the clutch pp I guess. is there a window to look at the pp from outside?
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