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Last Post 27 Oct 2014 05:05 PM by  t walgamuth
New C mod in the INdy region
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20 Dec 2010 07:24 AM

Tom,

Edit to add: I don't have a gear chart handy but none of the po's first gear guesses are lower than maybe an autox 3rd if you use my "tall" second approach. For the much more normal approach they might be 4th's. All the others are either sell or long term storage . . . which is the norm for gears from a road racer. I still have a bunch that came with my car in 1991.

At this point you probably should open up the Trans and see what you have. Too many unknowns due to the R&amp;P not known or the gears. Time for a look see. Just give yourself plenty of time so you don't feel rushed. Sounds like a nice holiday project. :-)

My guess is that one or both of the dog rings will need replacement also. Taylor and others frequently have good used dogs and gears. That is a good way to get your initial "best guesses" for what gears you will want. I may still be using some I bought that way.

I think I read in one of the CM Quarterly's that the R&amp;P ratio is scribed on the end of the pinion shaft but you need to pull the rear cover to see it.

FYI this is an old fashioned car. 60's engine and even earlier transmission case . . . (air cooled VW case) :-)

There must be a window to see the timing mark somewhere (location varies with car).

Dick



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20 Dec 2010 10:42 AM

If the PO was running w/ FRCCA on the East Coast they run sealed gearboxes w/ fixed ratios based on the R&amp;P. The list of ratios in the post above is straight out of their rulebook and my guess would be that an 85 is a 9:31 car.

Either way you are going to want to pull the bearing carrier to change the fluid and inspect the gears and dogs. Which you would have to-do anyway to install an auto-x integral 1st gear.

Recommend you download the PDF of the Hewland Mk 9 Service Manual off the Hewland UK website.



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20 Dec 2010 11:20 AM

As a follow up to Pete's post: Hewland Engineering Ltd MK9 Manual Download

Specifically, page 11 "GEARBOX DISASSEMBLY" and page 16 "ILLUSTRATED PARTS LIST"



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20 Dec 2010 01:15 PM
Have any of the longer term CM guys used a 14:36 slide on for first gear (51 mph with 9:31 r&p) for sites with few "high grip" starts? I know lots of guys either did or do use one for second.

If this gear can handle relatively easy starts and "initial funds" for buying an integral first gear are limited for any of the new guys in the class one came up for sale on Apex Speed over the weekend. See the link I posted above.

I suspect most of us are running a mid 40's integral first so 51 won't be too bad if the sites are not too grippy and/or the tires aren't "fresh". I.e. you will probably be wheelspin limited anyway, especially when the weather is cool/cold.

Dick


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20 Dec 2010 08:35 PM
An integral first gear is really pricey but it's the one big expenditure that is recommended. Going with a slide on might work if the driver was always careful with starts. Might have to do a lot of clutch slipping, so that's a cost (in time as well as money) that you can use to rationalize the expenditure.


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20 Dec 2010 10:56 PM

Now I believe I understand what an integral first gear means. It is a gear fused to the shaft for more strength, right? So I might pull the gearbox apart soon to see exactly what I have.

My old Ferrari 250 had the timing marks on the edge of the flywheel, visible from straight above right back by the firewall. I can imagine one somewhere similar on this old Kent motor.



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21 Dec 2010 07:35 AM
Tom,

An integral first gear actually is machined as part of the shaft. Even better than "fused".

There should be either an inspection hole in the bellhousing or in my car, the bellhousing is open on the right side so that I can see the flywheel. In my case the "reference pointer" for timing is the bottom corner of the block surface where the oil pan attaches. If you are lucky there will be color coding to identify TDC and 38 BTDC. However, you may find more than one set of marks since engine builders have to accommodate numerous cars.

Dick


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21 Dec 2010 10:17 AM
Tom, my gearbox is apart right now. If you want to see it in pieces before taking yours apart your welcome to come by.


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21 Dec 2010 11:52 AM
I would like that very much! Would an evening this week work (not Friday).?


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21 Dec 2010 11:54 AM
I can't seem to pm you. twalgamuth@comcast.net


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21 Dec 2010 12:19 PM

Here are some photos I took last winter:



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21 Dec 2010 01:15 PM
Yuck :-) I assume the "green slime" is Redline Shockproof gear oil. (I'm going to use it for the first time this winter)

Dick


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21 Dec 2010 02:32 PM
Whoa....how did I miss this thread? Cool to see more mod cars in the region in the coming year!


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21 Dec 2010 03:11 PM
My wife won't let me back in the house after playing with gears because of the smell. She makes me run my hands through something that smells better first, like rabbit poop.


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21 Dec 2010 09:49 PM

Whooooaaaaahhhhh!

Lucky for me I have two rabbits!;)



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21 Dec 2010 10:22 PM
Dick Rasmussen wrote:
Yuck :-) I assume the "green slime" is Redline Shockproof gear oil. (I'm going to use it for the first time this winter)

Dick

Yes, the aqua color is that of Red Line Shockproof Lite. It works as advertised in softening the blows of metal-to-metal contact between the gear clusters.

For the new guys out there you will need one quart for a gear change and it is always a good idea to keep a spare quart around for if your box drips at all. Also, keep a tube of Hylomar handy for reassemby of the bearing carrier and rear cover; it is much nicer to work w/ than RTV.



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21 Dec 2010 10:33 PM
PCalhoun wrote: Also, keep a tube of Hylomar handy for reassemby of the bearing carrier and rear cover; it is much nicer to work w/ than RTV.

+1 !!!



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22 Dec 2010 07:40 AM
For you new guys don't be "put off" by some of the "stuff" we suggest you buy or learn at the beginning of your real race car experience. Except for obvious consumables like gear oil and to some degree sealants like Hylomar much of what you buy or learn now will serve you well for years to come if you stay in CM. I may be an extreme example but I still have and use stuff I bought for this car in 1991 - 1993.

Another thing to do as you take stuff apart is to read up on how to select AN hardware (bolts, nuts, washers) in Smith's books and then buy what you need and some extras of each size. Especially any small stuff like 10-32's since they are cheap and more likely to actually need replacement. Pegasus's catalog is a GREAT reference source for the hardware with dimensions, etc. They are also a VERY convenient source for buying the stuff even though others MAY have better prices.

FYI my "inventory" of various hardware items is stored in several Sto and Go Rack organizers from Planomolding:

http://www.planomolding.com/toolbox...roducts-2/

Dick



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25 Dec 2010 06:29 PM

I'm now calculating and scheming about what gears to buy for autocrossing my Reynard. Also trying to identify ways to reduce weight.

I went down thursday and looked a Nick's car. I had a wonderful edifying time with him and Mark. Thanks guys!



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31 Dec 2010 08:19 AM

I found a chassis sheet among the things the PO gave me. In it I find that the car is already pretty light. He weighs 185 and it was about 1120 with him in it as it sits now.

I also have dyno sheets from when he had it rebuilt about a year and a half ago and it looks pretty strong. The head must flow pretty well.

I also have his race records for two and a half years and running in the club he was in he placed first more than anything else, second most of the other times and only one sixth place and a dnf.

So I am pretty pumped.

With the above freezing weather I will be pulling the car out of the garage and washing it and the trailer off. Then I plan to put it on the new yellow steel sawhorses I got for my birthday.

In my examination of the car I found a slightly bent push rod and am pondering if I should try to do something about that.

I have also found there are a lot of body panels missing.....lower rear panel (removed for cooling apparently) and some shrouds leading from the large naca duct on the side to the rads.

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