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Last Post 18 Apr 2012 09:06 PM by  mlane350z
350Z to ESP (Feb Fastrack)
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christoc
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20 Jan 2011 11:32 PM

    What are everyone's thoughts on this potential move?

    I was planning on building up my car for BSP this year (hopefully starting soon) so I think I like the idea of getting bumped!

    bmwguy325is
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    21 Jan 2011 02:06 AM

    I think its a great idea. Im sure ill get corrected if I am wrong. The big issue with the 350Z is weight?

    SO it gets put in the class with the big heavy V8 cars

    Though there are some good SP legal parts to up the HP of the Z to keep it competitive.

    mlane350z
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    21 Jan 2011 02:39 AM
    I am 100% for this move. At this point it seems to fit the class philosophy of ESP better than the AWD dominated BSP.
    DrJones_CMR
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    21 Jan 2011 07:11 AM

    Don't tick off the pony car people! they'll tar a feather ya, put you on a horse and send you out of town!

    Isn't the G35 already in ESP (maybe i'm thinking of F-stock)?

    SMSupercoupe
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    21 Jan 2011 11:13 AM
    I run a 4th-gen Camaro in ESP, and perhaps for obvious reasons, this proposal makes me nervous. What are realistic hp/weight figures for a 350Z in SP trim?

    AutoX Z
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    21 Jan 2011 12:07 PM
    SMSupercoupe wrote:
    I run a 4th-gen Camaro in ESP, and perhaps for obvious reasons, this proposal makes me nervous. What are realistic hp/weight figures for a 350Z in SP trim?

    I don't think it could get below 3000 lbs and make no more than 320 whp. This is based on what I estimate my car could get to in SP trim.

    Chiketkd
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    21 Jan 2011 12:29 PM
    AutoX Z wrote:
    SMSupercoupe wrote:
    I run a 4th-gen Camaro in ESP, and perhaps for obvious reasons, this proposal makes me nervous. What are realistic hp/weight figures for a 350Z in SP trim?

    I don't think it could get below 3000 lbs and make no more than 320 whp. This is based on what I estimate my car could get to in SP trim.

    While I'm for this move, I find it funny that the SPAC is proposing a move of an uncompetitive car from BSP to ESP when they're much more obvious also-rans in the class.

    JerryLamb
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    21 Jan 2011 12:33 PM
    Perhaps no-one did the research and sent a request to the SEB for the other cars.
    mlane350z
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    21 Jan 2011 12:43 PM
    SMSupercoupe wrote:
    I run a 4th-gen Camaro in ESP, and perhaps for obvious reasons, this proposal makes me nervous. What are realistic hp/weight figures for a 350Z in SP trim?

    In full blown prep....3000-3050lbs and 300-320whp.

    christoc
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    21 Jan 2011 01:00 PM
    AutoX Z wrote:
    SMSupercoupe wrote:
    I run a 4th-gen Camaro in ESP, and perhaps for obvious reasons, this proposal makes me nervous. What are realistic hp/weight figures for a 350Z in SP trim?

    I don't think it could get below 3000 lbs and make no more than 320 whp. This is based on what I estimate my car could get to in SP trim.

    Here are some numbers I've seen myself, from my cars.

    My old 2003 Enthusiast model 350z in full stock class prep weighed in at 3075 with Enkei RPF1s in 17". I believe (it's been 6 years), that it dynoed around 215 or 220 at the rear wheels stock.

    My current 2004 Enthusiast model 350z in current prep dyno'd at 259 at the rear wheels with CAI, intake manifold spacer, cats and dual exhaust. I'm not sure how much room there is for getting more power out of the car. I also don't know the weight on this car yet, it currently has some stereo equipment that needs to be removed before I'll put it on the scales. It should be very similar to my 2003 as it is nearly the exact same car, though I'll have larger wheels this time around.

    The only room I have for dropping more weight would be seats, not sure how much the stock seats weigh, so I think 3000lbs would be my goal for target weight, at least at this point. Might be able to save some switching to a custom suspension from OEM, but haven't done the research on that yet.





    mlane350z
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    21 Jan 2011 01:11 PM
    I am currently at 282whp/3040lbs (in the heavier touring model) w/o driver for reference.
    The Nebulizer
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    21 Jan 2011 01:30 PM
    Chiketkd wrote:

    While I'm for this move, I find it funny that the SPAC is proposing a move of an uncompetitive car from BSP to ESP when they're much more obvious also-rans in the class.


    Like this one
    <------
    (about 300whp/3200llbs in SP trim)
    Chiketkd
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    21 Jan 2011 04:11 PM
    mlane350z wrote:
    I am currently at 282whp/3040lbs (in the heavier touring model) w/o driver for reference.

    What year 350Z do you have?

    From my understanding the hp/tq potential of the VQ35HR ('07-'09) is greater than that of the VQ35DE ('03-'06). IIRC, Carter had his '03 Enthusiast down in the mid 3050lbs range. Drop weight from seats, lightweight flywheel, brakes, full exhaust, suspension (hollow swaybars, coilovers), removal of a/c, etc and I could see one getting down into 2,950lbs range easy (maybe even 2,900lbs with a full tilt build). Heck, you could probably get close to 2,950lbs by just doing a full exhaust, both seats, and pulling the a/c.

    My gut tells me this car would be VERY competitive in ESP right off the bat. Lower CoG than any of the muscle cars, medium power/tq (for the class), and a better suspension. It's wide like the muscle cars so no big advantage there.

    I'm not sure anymore. I'll be interested in hearing the thoughts of Strano/Piccione on this one since they've both driven BS 350Z's and have run in FS for many years (Strano has also won ESP in his Camaro and has a 2011 Mustang that he's building for the class).

    AutoX Z
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    21 Jan 2011 05:23 PM
    Those weights seem really low, I'm jealous. Heck why not at the 370 to the proposal cause there's no way I could get my car that light.
    mlane350z
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    21 Jan 2011 05:26 PM
    Chiketkd,

    I have an 03. I think you have actually seen the car (Black on RPF1's). I had it up at the last Cumberland event on street tires......and was terrible slow. I would say an enthusiast or base model could get down to 2950lb, but that would be the absolute max w/in the rules. The 07-08 have a greater hp potential....they tend to make 20ish whp more right out of the box. No problem getting to 300-310whp with simple bolt-ons. The major issue is they are quite a bit heavier. The tq is also better delivered in the earlier model (with roughly the same peak numbers).

    01 FS Z28
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    21 Jan 2011 07:44 PM
    Chiketkd wrote:
    mlane350z wrote:
    I am currently at 282whp/3040lbs (in the heavier touring model) w/o driver for reference.

    What year 350Z do you have?

    From my understanding the hp/tq potential of the VQ35HR ('07-'09) is greater than that of the VQ35DE ('03-'06). IIRC, Carter had his '03 Enthusiast down in the mid 3050lbs range. Drop weight from seats, lightweight flywheel, brakes, full exhaust, suspension (hollow swaybars, coilovers), removal of a/c, etc and I could see one getting down into 2,950lbs range easy (maybe even 2,900lbs with a full tilt build). Heck, you could probably get close to 2,950lbs by just doing a full exhaust, both seats, and pulling the a/c.

    My gut tells me this car would be VERY competitive in ESP right off the bat. Lower CoG than any of the muscle cars, medium power/tq (for the class), and a better suspension. It's wide like the muscle cars so no big advantage there.

    I'm not sure anymore. I'll be interested in hearing the thoughts of Strano/Piccione on this one since they've both driven BS 350Z's and have run in FS for many years (Strano has also won ESP in his Camaro and has a 2011 Mustang that he's building for the class).

    I find that if I'm honest, then I'm fried for being biased...


    I'll say this, like the 370Z, I was quicker consistently in a 350Z than I was in the Shelby, and the Shelby is already psuedo-ESP in a way, as it's on lowering springs, it's got swaybars, and -2.1 camber. The Z has none of that, and yet I have been consistently quicker in Z's all 4 times I've run Z vs. FS car back to back tests. I see no reason why this won't be the case in ESP because you will improve a 350Z more than a Shelby GT, without doubt. Way lighter, big wheels, a real diff, camber (that's a big one), light clutch and flywheel will help the V-6 a lot too.

    Can't say I'm impressed with this one... Curious to hear how many agree or not, and who's driven the cars in question throughly and at the same events. I'm betting not many.

    Ruff
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    21 Jan 2011 07:45 PM
    Chike, you need to realize ESP isn't really much slower then BSP. And who knows how quick the new Mustang will be in ESP (I'm guessing near the top). I totally support the move, but I think in the end, the 350z is going to have as tough a time winning in ESP as it does in BSP.
    fastmike
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    21 Jan 2011 08:43 PM
    Laguna Seca Boss to ESP then ok on the Z cars?
    FM
    GlennAustin
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    22 Jan 2011 12:01 AM
    Blame (or thank) me for the letter.

    Just one of those things that one night I was thinking about. Not that I'm necessarily planning on converting *mine* to ESP anytime soon, but I know of others who might be considering it, but have been completely discouraged by the current SP classing.
    Chiketkd
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    22 Jan 2011 04:44 PM
    mlane350z wrote:
    Chiketkd,

    I have an 03. I think you have actually seen the car (Black on RPF1's). I had it up at the last Cumberland event on street tires......and was terrible slow. I would say an enthusiast or base model could get down to 2950lb, but that would be the absolute max w/in the rules. The 07-08 have a greater hp potential....they tend to make 20ish whp more right out of the box. No problem getting to 300-310whp with simple bolt-ons. The major issue is they are quite a bit heavier. The tq is also better delivered in the earlier model (with roughly the same peak numbers).

    Where does the extra weight come from (engine, changes to the chassis, etc)? FWIW, the hot set-up for a 350Z in SP could very well be a 2003 car with a VQ35HR engine.

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