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Last Post 10 May 2009 08:48 PM by  wrheadle
Event 1 results
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wrheadle
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29 Apr 2009 06:43 AM
    are here
    sts38
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    29 Apr 2009 10:14 AM
    Thanks for getting this stuff up so quick Bill.
    rtp.rick
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    29 Apr 2009 10:29 AM

    Say, Bill, did you guys really have 18 G Prepared cars, or was that the deal with your SMT class and that's the factor you folks chose for that group?

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    KBroeker
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    29 Apr 2009 01:48 PM

    Rick-

    The 18 car class is Street Mod Street Tire (SMS in Fort Wayne, apparently SMT on myautoevents.com). We created this class when requested by a guy who had a nicely prepared GC chassis Impreza with a JDM STi engine swap who did not want to go to R compound. This was three years ago, I think. It has bee wildly sucessful for us and other regions (Indy and South Bend, I think) have also adopted it. As it is not a national class, there was not a PAX to adopt. With some logic and reasoning behind it, we chose to use a PAX that was half way between SM and STU. It was suggested on this forum by Chuck (see post here: http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread...5855.aspx) that we should update the SMS PAX as the SM and STU PAXes were adjusted for this year. I am not sure if the club made an official decision on this issue or not.

    If you want to give us your expert opinion on a PAX for this class, I am sure many would be interested. I would say that the SMS class is typically people who have their cars modded for their own personal taste and not neccessarily specifically prepared for AutoX, so typically they are not in the top ranks on PAX. Having said that, there was someone whose name I do not recognise that did place 8th on PAX last Sunday.

    For those of you who do not know, Rick is the guy who develops the national PAX each year.

    rtp.rick
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    29 Apr 2009 02:58 PM

    You may not have recognized Brad's name, but he was still the best of that bunch. :-) He was still 1.493 seconds (index time) off the top spot.

    The number you're using (.841) happend to be 97% of the current Street Mod PAX/RTP factor. That's probably fair. In another thread I had suggested that the popular 98% "fudge factor" was probably too difficult for most cars on Street Tires. I was informed that 96% had been used in Detroit, a few years back, and it seemed to become too easy, so 97% is probably about right.

    EDIT: I should add that as power levels increase, the relative performance of Street Tires to "R" compound tires is increased. The higher-powered Street Tire car can't get as much advantage as they might on "R" compound tires. So, where 97 or 98% might be okay for higher powered cars, 96% may be more appropriate for lower powered cars.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    wrheadle
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    29 Apr 2009 05:12 PM
    KBroeker wrote:

    With some logic and reasoning behind it, we chose to use a PAX that was half way between SM and STU. I am not sure if the club made an official decision on this issue or not.

    The 0.841 index is an error and as soon as I get confirmation from the solo director that 0.852 is the right number, I'll be updating the indexed results and points accordingly.

    rtp.rick wrote:

    You may not have recognized Brad's name, but he was still the best of that bunch. :-) He was still 1.493 seconds (index time) off the top spot.

    Brad was in a Z06, which was not in the original scope of the class. We got lax last year in who could run the class and I think we are going to reign that back in this year given that it is an allowed class in the Grissom National Tour under its original scope of only SM cars (not SM2). This is in no way taking anything away from Brad's performance (I work with him) and not his fault in any way as he was told he could run that class late last year.

    Bill

    wrheadle
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    29 Apr 2009 05:14 PM

    sts38 wrote:
    Thanks for getting this stuff up so quick Bill.

    Not a problem...[Y]

    rtp.rick
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    30 Apr 2009 05:34 AM

    I'd say .852 is too harsh. You even have evidence based on the winner (last weekend) being over 1.4 seconds back while driving a car that's not even eligible for the class. The next highest guy in the class is 3.25 seconds back, ranked 21st!! If you stay with the .841 factor, I think this class' relative performance would be more accurately reflected. Using .852 (over 98% of SM's factor), the ineligible guy falls to 10th, a little over 2 seconds back. The highest eligible finisher winds up 22nd, 3.788 seconds back. Seems kind of harsh, especially when the early part of the year tends to favor street tires, with their relative performance to "R" compounds, simply because it tends to be cooler.

    Just my opinion, you folks are, of course, free to do what you want.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

    wrheadle
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    30 Apr 2009 06:30 AM

    Rick-

    You may be right, but the challenge is that the top SMT cars are not nearly fully prepped to the rules. They are guys who have made a couple of changes to their cars and just want to run the big class. The first guy behind Brad has an essentially stock LS1 and was at his first event after major suspension changes. He will get faster as the year goes and there is a lot of prep left between where his car is and the limit of the rules.

    We have but a handful of cars that are fully prepped to the rules and, with the exception of Scott Lewis who was on 3 year old radials with a bias ply chassis set-up, they are all lined up at the top of the order.

    The other challenge is that this lot, like most of our lots, does not lend itself to PAX representative courses. It is smaller and is very sandy (they were out with leaf blowers trying to contain the gravel). Our courses also tend to favor smaller cars as the designers try to optimize the area used and trade off corner radius and slalom spacing to do it.

    In the end, 0.852 may be too harsh, but we don't have a really good measure of what it should be yet. AllI know is that there is a lot of development in the SMT class in the region going on and the class as a whole is making progress, which is always a good thing.

    Hope to see ya out and about this year sometime. I miss the MiniBoss.

    Bill

    rtp.rick
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    30 Apr 2009 03:11 PM

    I hope to see you this year as well.

    I agree that you, probably, need to monitor the class for more than a year. I think SMT is a better title than SMS, which is too close to the new National SSM designation.

    H's & K's,
    Rick Ruth

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    10 May 2009 05:32 PM

    Not to belabor the point, but Rainer posted in the Drift for April that the SMT/SMS Pax will be the 3% improvement from SM (0.841) for this year. So, if this is official, then the results form PE#1 (different post, original rankings) and todays results need to reflect this.

    Now, interms of the Z06 (as others have posted, not to take away from his performance), that would be outside of the scope of the class.

    My $0.02...

    wrheadle
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    10 May 2009 08:48 PM
    I strongly suspect that the article was submitted to the drift prior to the discussion about the SMS/SMT index and that the conflict is due to the timing of when the articel was published.
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