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Last Post 25 Feb 2012 12:12 AM by  AutoXCamaro
Any rumors on FSP moves?
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mtbprelude
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01 Sep 2009 09:00 AM

JC Wiser wrote:
Yet another FasTrack and still no decision. [:(] Guess you have to own a "premium brand" car (i.e. Honda, Mazda, Subaru, etc) to get any attention. Next month makes 1 year since I sent in my proposal.

Have you followed up with the SCCA? Do you have a proposal number?

If not email the SCCA again/call. If you didn't receive a proposal number, I doubt that the SPAC has your proposal.

If you do, email again/call and ask if it the propsal has been considered for member comment? No classing change is going to be made without the move being put out for member comment. It'd be a good idea to round up a bunch of guys from the class and have them send in letters asking for the change too.

Gunny JC
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01 Sep 2009 12:31 PM

JC Wiser wrote:
I wrote a letter last Aug requesting to have the Saturn S-series cars moved from DSP to FSP. It was published in the Oct fastrack for membership comment along with a # of similar cars asking for the same move and then nothing...zip...nada since then. Each fastrack I eagerly look at hoping for some news only to find nothing. I recently sent another letter asking if it had fallen thru the cracks and was told it is still being discussed. Anyone hearing anything on this lately? I'd like to start getting a car & parts together as soon as poss for the build if it is going to happen.

As a further update, I've recently been informed by unofficial means that it has been discussed, but a decision hasn't been made yet. I'm hopeful the decision comes soon enough for it to be effective for next season. [|-)]

mtbprelude
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01 Sep 2009 12:45 PM

Lacking-Caffeine-FAIL. [:$]

Keep following up/keep rounding up support even with the unofficial means notification: squeaky wheels, grease, and all that!

Gunny JC
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18 Sep 2009 05:23 AM
New Fastrack should be out any day now. I'm saying my prayers! [A]
subrew
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30 Sep 2009 11:49 AM
Then you'll enjoy the recently released Oct issue [;)]
IntrigueGX
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30 Sep 2009 12:33 PM
Cool, I wonder if I can swap my GSi's intake and exhaust on to the SC2. Though I think the LL0 head doesn't flow as well as the 4XF1-W. I need Isuzu people to write in for their own FSP move. :)
gary p
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30 Sep 2009 01:22 PM
Slow down there, cowboy, it has only been recommend by the SPAC and put out for member comment. Still has to clear the SEB. You're well on your way, but you're not there yet.
Gunny JC
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30 Sep 2009 06:26 PM

Well that brings up a bunch of new questions....

1. Why the year break? That makes no sense to me as engines, suspension, transmissions are the same. OBD1/OBD2 changeover happened in the '96 model year...strange.

2. Now that the SPAC has made their recommendation (Thankyou SPAC members!!!), what is the usual/typical time frame for the SEB to say yay or nay? We are at or very near the cut-off point for changes being made to activate for the 2010 season & could now be made for the 2011 season. [U]

splash
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30 Sep 2009 06:54 PM

I was wondering myself why the breakpoint in the years... I can't think of anything that changed a lot from '95-'96 except for body shapes in the SL/SW. The SC big change was in '97, body and the longer SL chassis... Right?

OBD should kinda be irrelevant in SP since emissions should be all gone.

Normally, I'd say '99-2000 would make a better breakpoint, but you can't UD/BD heads/shortblocks, so that idea is out the window.

Gunny JC
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01 Oct 2009 08:11 AM

Yeah...I agree. Really the only change in 1999 was a different (i.e. more restrictive) head design for the DOHC engines. Most everything else was the same. The year break just doesn't make sense at all to me.

In 96 they went to OBD2, but that has no effect with SP allowances. The sedans and wagons went to a newer body style in 96 but the frames, suspension, engines, transaxles, etc stayed the same. The coupes changed in 97 and they were then made on the same chassis as the sedans and wagons instead of the shorter wheelbase that was on the 91 - 96 coupes.. The year break just doesn't make sense at all to me.

subrew
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01 Oct 2009 09:12 AM

So write a letter. Detail the minor differences between years, and suggest no separation based on model years. Use examples of other models in FSP.

Chris H.

Gunny JC
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01 Oct 2009 03:53 PM

I agree that's a great idea Chris and that's why I did exactly that yesterday. [:P]

Hi, John,

Your comments have been logged 09-619 for Saturns to FSP and sent to the SEB. They will discuss this topic and once they have made a decision they will post it in a future Fastrack news.

Thanks for your input!

Brian Harmer

SCCA Solo Technical Specialist

1-800-770-2055

Solo National Rules: http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo_..._Rules.pdf

FastTrack: http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=78


From: John Wiser [mailto:jhwiser@charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:31 PM
To: seb
Subject: Saturn S-series to FSP

To the SEB,

I strongly support the SPAC's recommendation to move the Saturn S-Series to FSP. I do have a question though: Why the break in years to put them on two different lines as shown below?

- The following previously-published (October ’08) class change proposal has been recommended by the SPAC and is published

here for further comment: Move from DSP to FSP, Saturn 16V models as follows (ref. 09-532):

Saturn

S-series(’91-’95)

S-series (’96-’02)

All Saturn S-series used the same block from 1991 to 2002. All SOHC saturns used the same head regardless of year, but had changes to intake/fuel delivery. All DOHC Saturns used the same head from 1991 through mid 1999. After that until 2002 the head changed to a smaller head design with smaller ports. Saturn changed from OBD-1 to OBD-2 for the 1996 model year except for the California cars which changed over in 1995.

The Saturn S-series came in three body styles, the SC (sport coupe), SL (sedan) & SW (wagon). The DOHC equipped cars were designated with a "2" (SC2, SL2 & SW2) after the body designation and the SOHC cars had a "1" (SC1, SL1 & SW1). The SL & SW models changed to the second generation body style (slightly longer wheelbase and a bit heavier) in 1996. The SC models didn't change to the second generation body style until 1997. All Series models changed to the 3rd generation bodystyles (same dimensions) in the middle of 1999 through the 2002 model year.

Not sure if that helps or adds confusion, but I would appreciate an answer as to the thoughts behind the year break.

If the SEB has any questions or would like anything clarified I'd be glad to help. I've worked in a Saturn Service Dept for the last 7+ years and have campaigned several Saturns over the last 3+ years.

Sincerely,

John Wiser

splash
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02 Oct 2009 09:10 PM

I thought the SL/SW only changed body in '96 and the chassis/wheelbase has been the same from '91-'02. The SC went to the same longer chassis/wheelbase in '97

Anyway, I wrote a similar letter asking why the break in the years...

Gunny JC
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03 Oct 2009 10:16 AM
Good catch...That's what I meant to say. [:$] The fact the the SL & SW series never changed the chassis throught their production life just supports the reasoning to not break up the series in some sort of year break.
Cobra
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05 Oct 2009 07:53 AM
I've also submitted my opinion on the move. Since my Saturn spun a bearing over the weekend, I now have more incentive to turn it into an ITA car. I'd like to see it classed where it autocrosses with its own ITA bretheren as we have an ITA Sentra SE-R and ITA Neon here in Indy region that also run in FSP. [:)]
REALSPEED74STS
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05 Oct 2009 11:22 AM

I feel that there should be breaks in the model years, like the 92-95 and 96-00 civic, the protege 90-98, 99-02. if you say that theres no difference in the models then it shouldnt be a problem with the wording and the split in production

Gunny JC
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05 Oct 2009 11:54 AM
REALSPEED74STS wrote:

I feel that there should be breaks in the model years, like the 92-95 and 96-00 civic, the protege 90-98, 99-02. if you say that theres no difference in the models then it shouldnt be a problem with the wording and the split in production

I guess my 1st thought is why do you feel that way. Any particular reasoning other than you just want a year break just because? If all the year models are basically the same car why the year break? The only break I could really envision would be to separate the 91 - 96 coupes from the rest of the cars because of a 3.2" shorter wheelbase. Engines, transaxles, brake systems, suspensions & chassis are basically all the same from 91 through 2002 except for the 91 - 96 coupes as mentioned above.

My understanding on Hondas as other such cars having breaks in the models is due to significantly different engine/trans configurations, chassis changes or suspension geometry where the parts are actual drop in replacements for line # to line # for the same model. That isn't true on the Saturn S-Series by and large.

REALSPEED74STS
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05 Oct 2009 06:35 PM

REALSPEED74STS
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05 Oct 2009 06:38 PM
Because i feel that the SEB ans the SPAC have done their homework on the reclassification on the saturn, there needs to be year splits like the protege and the civic, and if you say that theres no difference in the years then why would you have any problem with the year split in the first place?
Gunny JC
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06 Oct 2009 06:17 AM
I personally don't really care, but it just doesn't make any sense, especially breaking it at the 1995 year since nothing changed in 1996 except a body makeover for the 4 door cars. Having a break in the model line up just for the sake of having a break is pointless imo. Guess i'm just a logical minded guy that feels that if you are going to do something it should be for a logical reason...not just because.
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