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Last Post 09 Jun 2009 10:08 PM by  chriskrumnow
Region's Street Tire Rules
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sts38
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08 Jun 2009 01:51 PM

    http://www.fwscca.com/Drift/Newslet...9DRIFT.pdf (See Page 18)

    Anyone know who wrote this? Is this official in FWR? There are a lot of misconstrued facts here. I'd be happy to help straighten this out if I can find the author.

    OneEyeMedia
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    08 Jun 2009 02:37 PM

    Looks like someone just c/p from the rule book.

    I could be wrong though... as I have not looked at a rule book since 2006 :P

    sts38
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    08 Jun 2009 03:03 PM
    JPMRacing26 wrote:

    Looks like someone just c/p from the rule book.

    I could be wrong though... as I have not looked at a rule book since 2006 :P

    If you are talking about an 06' rule book or older maybe, but with tweaks. I have so many questions for clarification I don't know where to start. I'd love for the creator of this rule set to chime in and explain. Are these region only rules? Are they purposely customized from National Class rules (and class names) or just out of date? Does "FULL NATIONAL CLASS" mean same rules as the National Class? STU and STS (Formerly STS2) are now "FULL NATIONAL CLASSES" aren't they? I know there was talk last year about implementing Street Tire classes, but I thought was to be implemented in the off season to avoid mid-season changes.

    When did/does this take affect?

    BTW....Link to 09 rules if anyone would like to read them>>>>> http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=61

    OneEyeMedia
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    08 Jun 2009 03:14 PM

    One last thread jack OTTER...

    [sarcasm] Only the cool people come to the forums... Everyone else uses the website [sarcasm]

    Thanks for the link :P

    OneEyeMedia
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    08 Jun 2009 03:23 PM
    sts38 wrote:
    JPMRacing26 wrote:

    Looks like someone just c/p from the rule book.

    I could be wrong though... as I have not looked at a rule book since 2006 :P

    If you are talking about an 06' rule book or older maybe, but with tweaks. I have so many questions for clarification I don't know where to start. I'd love for the creator of this rule set to chime in and explain. Are these region only rules? Are they purposely customized from National Class rules (and class names) or just out of date? Does "FULL NATIONAL CLASS" mean same rules as the National Class? STU and STS (Formerly STS2) are now "FULL NATIONAL CLASSES" aren't they? I know there was talk last year about implementing Street Tire classes, but I thought was to be implemented in the off season to avoid mid-season changes.

    When did/does this take affect?

    BTW....Link to 09 rules if anyone would like to read them>>>>> http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=61

    Also, I thought we renamed SMS to SMT to avoid confusion with SSM (formerly known as SM2)

    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 03:40 PM

    I am not sure who the authors were. This class was created before my time. I am sure Ron Conrad had a hand in creating them.

    For example my fiero would fall into sts(formerly sts2) in our region. Nationally i am not allowed in sts because i have too much displacement...not to be confused with too much hp...hahaha

    Yes, I changed the the letters to avoid confusion. I didn't think anyone would have a problem with that.

    sts38
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    08 Jun 2009 03:53 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    I am not sure who the authors were. This class was created before my time. I am sure Ron Conrad had a hand in creating them.

    For example my fiero would fall into sts(formerly sts2) in our region. Nationally i am not allowed in sts because i have too much displacement...not to be confused with too much hp...hahaha

    Yes, I changed the the letters to avoid confusion. I didn't think anyone would have a problem with that.

    Chris....you are the newletter editor. Who gave you this to post? Is this official? When does/did it take affect. I'm just looking for a little clarification.

    mavisky
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    08 Jun 2009 04:59 PM
    It did kind of suck for me as I would have had to have had all my vinyl re-cut since the numbers and the lettering touched each other, but I've pretty much retired the car from competition anymore anyways so in the end I lucked out.
    wrheadle
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    08 Jun 2009 10:22 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    For example my fiero would fall into sts (formerly sts2) in our region.

    Regionally, your car would potentially be allowed to run STS2 (now STS), but if a competitor complained, you would be moved to the appropriate class. I have had to do this in the past, and yes, it sucked then as much as it would suck now. It is almost universally better if a competitor is correctly classed in the first place.

    All of the FWR classes that are defined in the Solo Rules are run to the Solo Rules. The cars that run in each class are subject to review by the competitors and, if their class legality is called into question, appropriate actions would be taken. This is why there was a strong push eariler this year to define SMS (not SMT). We needed an understanding of what the class was (which we now have). Technically, by our policies and procedures, we can't even run SMT because all we offer are national classes and a novice class (we might want to look at the P&P and fix that). (see excerpt from P&P below)

    4. REGULATIONS GOVERNING FORT WAYNE REGION SCCA SOLO EVENTS

    All rules and regulations as stated in the current SCCA Solo Rule Book and amendments are applicable to Fort Wayne Region SCCA Solo events. The following local rules are in addition to or supersede those stated in the SCCA Solo Rule Book. Event Chairmen should also consult the current Solo Eventmaster's Guide for more information.

    4.1 Automobile Classes

    The following Classes shall be offered at all Fort Wayne Region SCCA Solo events.

    4.1.1 National Level Classes

    All Car Classes specified in the current year SCCA Solo Rules Book for National level Solo competition shall be offered.

    4.1.2 Novice Class

    A Novice Class shall be offered for Solo drivers that have not participated in more than three (3) events prior to the current year. Novices will be ranked based on performance improvements from first run through last run for each event.

    Class rules exist for a reason and need to be consistently applied so that we have competitors who don't have reason to claim favoritism and, more importantly, know what to expect prior to arrival at an event. If we want to go off and create our own class rules, as a region we can decide that, but it is highly likely that our out of region attendance will drop off significantly as a result.

    Respectfully-

    Bill Headlee

    FWR Director at Large

    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 10:25 PM

    I did some checking. STU2 was used in '05. SMS started in '06. I just posted the rules from the laptop. They are the official rules. These are the rules we have been running with since '06. I don't see an issue with them. I just posted them because there was confusion about 2 seaters in SMT. I think the rules should remain simple.

    I will keep the rules in the Drift for a few months. Hopefully it will create positive discusions that will improve the club.

    wrheadle
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    08 Jun 2009 10:34 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    I did some checking. STU2 was used in '05. SMS started in '06. I just posted the rules from the laptop. They are the official rules. These are the rules we have been running with since '06. I don't see an issue with them. I just posted them because there was confusion about 2 seaters in SMT. I think the rules should remain simple.

    They are NOT the official rules. The official rules are defined in t he Solo Rules as published by the SCCA unless it is a regional class. From which laptop did you post them? SMS was created as SM (not including SM2) on street tires. That was its original intent (and INDY copied it from us and they still have this definition). We strayed from this definition until this year and, based on agreement of the Solo Director, have returned to SM (not including SM2) on street tires. Please publish the correct rules as a correction in the next Drift.

    Bill

    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 10:36 PM

    4.2 Supplement For Chairpersons
    The following supplemental guidelines shall be executed by the Solo Chairperson.
    4.2.1 Insurance
    Proof of insurance shall be in the Chairperson's possession during running of the event. Follow all currently
    applicable insurance procedures as defined in the SCCA Operations Guide for Regional Solo events.
    4.2.2 Site Approval
    A letter of approval to use the event site should be in the Chairperson’s possession during running of the event.
    4.2.3 Jurisdiction
    The Eventmaster has decision making powers in event disputes, with his decision being final with the exception
    of matters regarding crowd control and general safety, which is the Solo Safety Steward's responsibility.
    4.2.4 Supplemental Regulations
    Changes and additions to the SCCA Solo Rules that are necessary to execute the event shall be available to all
    entrants during registration or during a mandatory driver's meeting.

    What about this part?

    wrheadle
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    08 Jun 2009 10:45 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    4.2.4 Supplemental Regulations
    Changes and additions to the SCCA Solo Rules that are necessary to execute the event shall be available to all
    entrants during registration or during a mandatory driver's meeting.

    What about this part?

    Additional classes and class rule changes are not "necessary to execute the event".

    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 10:47 PM
    Don't shoot the messenger!
    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 10:51 PM

    What are the options?

    1. We do nothing! Add the policy for next year.

    2. Eliminate the class...BAD IDEA!!!

    3. Bring up and add the policy at the next board meeting.

    We really don't want any more drama!!!

    sts38
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    08 Jun 2009 11:22 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    What are the options?

    1. We do nothing! Add the policy for next year.

    2. Eliminate the class...BAD IDEA!!!

    3. Bring up and add the policy at the next board meeting.

    We really don't want any more drama!!!

    Eliminate what class? SMT? I agree....bad idea....it's a great class and doing well.

    Rewriting ST, STS, STX, and STU is a BAD Idea! Maybe we could recognize STR. A 2010 supplemental class announced in last month's FastTrack? Would this accomplish what you are going for Chris? Two seater Street Tire Class with Engine displacements up to 2.8-liters with no forced induction.

    chriskrumnow
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    08 Jun 2009 11:34 PM

    I wasn't going for anything. I just put into the drift what I thought was the "real" class rules. I am no longer trying to do anything but the drift. I'm sick of people saying shooting an idea down and not coming up with another one. Most people are impossible to please. Soooo...I am not trying to help anymore. I never put the fiero in STS2 because i didn't want to be questioned durring the event.

    I was just trying to communicate to the membership not change anything. Sorry.

    sts38
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    08 Jun 2009 11:54 PM
    chriskrumnow wrote:

    I wasn't going for anything. I just put into the drift what I thought was the "real" class rules. I am no longer trying to do anything but the drift. I'm sick of people saying shooting an idea down and not coming up with another one. Most people are impossible to please. Soooo...I am not trying to help anymore. I never put the fiero in STS2 because i didn't want to be questioned durring the event.

    I was just trying to communicate to the membership not change anything. Sorry.

    Chris, I'd be happy to help (hence the reason for this thread), but I first need to understand what you are trying to accomplish.

    wrheadle
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    09 Jun 2009 06:59 AM

    chriskrumnow wrote:
    Don't shoot the messenger!

    Chris-

    The way the conversation was going, you appeared to be the author, not just a messenger. This appears to be a perfect example of the "check your sources" rule of journalism.

    chriskrumnow wrote:

    What are the options?

    1. We do nothing! Add the policy for next year.

    2. Eliminate the class...BAD IDEA!!!

    3. Bring up and add the policy at the next board meeting.

    We really don't want any more drama!!!

    I think you'll find that I proposed #3 in my original post and I have additionally send a letter to the board requesting a change to the P&P to allow us to run regional classes and to clarify SMT.

    Bill

    OneEyeMedia
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    09 Jun 2009 07:41 AM

    #3 is always the best format. But it gets brought up and then after that, it seems to stay a sleep until the next season starts up. It is like "well, I got shot down...so I will just give up and wait until I can cause issues into the next season.

    Get ideas backed up through the season, cause you will see people then to talk over ideas, then each month update your idea to the meeting for members to discuss, then this gets published in the newsletter minutes for all members/non-members to read and talk about and then by the end of the season and before the new season, maybe...just maybe the idea will be in be implemented for the new season.

    Rules are rules...to play the game...you gotta follow them. If you don't want to, then do not play the game.

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