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Last Post 22 Aug 2011 07:22 PM by  Andy Hollis
EF Civic in FSP?
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JBrettHowell
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03 Aug 2011 05:05 PM
Andy Hollis wrote:
Mugenlude wrote:

mrhongkongwong wrote:

JBrettHowell wrote:



About 1900 lbs...and that is taking just about every allowance possible.

IIRC, ST Civic's weight 1950-1980lbs, mine weighs 2070-2080. I'm not sure how much lighter the DX Trim would weigh but I could totally see both in the low 1900lbs range.

Jeff- Andy's ST Civic was ~1965 lbs at Nationals the last year at HPD when we all went over the scales. He Had swiss-cheesed rotors (not legal now), a "custom" rear wing (not legal now), and likely the smallest driver seat (Andy is small). I'm sure that he has found some other items (anything you want to tell us about Andy), but I doubt it makes up for those items. So lets say the lightest Civic today is 1975 lbs. Most ST Civics are above 2000lbs, I would say most are around 2015-2025lbs.

While your #'s are accurate, my Civic is no longer the lightest in ST. H. Dumpty 3 is. JHME build (Japan) nets the additional weight loss. Which is also the key to use of the 88 chassis as starting point for an SP build, as there are way more JHME hatches built in that year than in 89, which is when most of the assembly was switched over to Canada. Note that *all* CRXs are JHME.

But yeah, I did find a couple more things. Nothing monumental, though. Real Life is in the way of any further development right now.

--Andy

In order to compare apples to apples, does anyone know a weight for a well prepared ST EG? SoG's car perhaps?

Mugenlude
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03 Aug 2011 05:08 PM
solo-x wrote:

EF weight:
CRX = low 1750
Civic = High 1790


I'm not disputing your numbers, I'm just wondering where 200 lbs is typically dropped out of Civics going from ST trim to SP trim, is it just the chassis?

Now that I look at curb weights, I see the 88 HB chassis at 1933# (btw, the 88 DX chassis is listed at 1993#), 89 Si chassis is at 2161#.... that is 228#, which is pretty much on par with your numbers... what chassis bits doesn't the 88 HB have (besides the sunroof in the Si)?

Derek128
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03 Aug 2011 05:09 PM
how about 99-00 Civic SI from DSP to FSP
its heavy to begin with :)
mrhongkongwong
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03 Aug 2011 05:11 PM
JBrettHowell wrote:

In order to compare apples to apples, does anyone know a weight for a well prepared ST EG? SoG's car perhaps?

Brian (Mac) McNamara's ST Civic (Old GRM Car) was 2080lbs. Now it is in FSP.

Mugenlude
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03 Aug 2011 05:11 PM
^^^ OK, so what is H. Dumpty 3 at? Didn't know that all CRX's were JHME.

I wonder if the listed curb weight of the Si (and other models for that matter) are Japan or Canadian....
JBrettHowell
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03 Aug 2011 05:16 PM
Derek wrote:
how about 99-00 Civic SI from DSP to FSP
its heavy to begin with :)

But sports a pretty stout B-series motor that benefits a good deal from the SP allowances...still, it's an interesting question.

Andy Hollis
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03 Aug 2011 05:26 PM
Mugenlude wrote:



Now that I look at curb weights, I see the 88 HB chassis at 1933# (btw, the 88 DX chassis is listed at 1993#), 89 Si chassis is at 2161#.... that is 228#, which is pretty much on par with your numbers... what chassis bits doesn't the 88 HB have (besides the sunroof in the Si)?

And the 89 base HB curbs at 2013, which is 80 lbs more than the 88. Knowing what I do of these cars, I can't find 80 lbs worth of parts difference. So there has to be some difference in the raw tubs.

My best guess is that the 88 Civic weights are for JHME cars, and the 89+ weights are for Canada builds. And I suspect that the few JHME 89's were actually leftover 88 JHME raw tubs that were finished out during early 1989 production in Japan before they stopped assembling them there. That said, there was no Si in 88, and that tub is different due to the sunroof. It is more than just a hole cut in the roof. The roof supports are different. So, it's a mystery. :)

--Andy

PS: H. Dumpty 3 is Dave O'Maley's car, which was constructed from the remnants of H Dumpty 2 (The Porpoise) and a JHME tub from Brian Bell.

Mugenlude
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03 Aug 2011 05:54 PM
we had a Japan chassis... but it lacked some bits, so now we have a Canadian born pig... errrrrrrrrr.

I know of HD3, I'm just wondering how much he weights....
Derek128
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03 Aug 2011 06:07 PM
JBrettHowell wrote:
Derek wrote:
how about 99-00 Civic SI from DSP to FSP
its heavy to begin with :)

But sports a pretty stout B-series motor that benefits a good deal from the SP allowances...still, it's an interesting question.

99-00 Civic Si Curb weight 2,606 lb

Not sure how light can it get in SP tho

Tigermack
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03 Aug 2011 06:13 PM
Yeah, make another class for the Civics, woohoo.
Mugenlude
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03 Aug 2011 06:30 PM
Tigermack wrote:
Yeah, make another class for the Civics, woohoo.

hmmmmm, didn't a Civics win FSP at Nationals last year?

mrhongkongwong
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03 Aug 2011 06:43 PM
So what is the weight of a EF Civic (not CRX) in SP trim using the lightest chassis available? low 1900's?
solo-x
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03 Aug 2011 06:58 PM
JBrettHowell wrote:

In order to compare apples to apples, does anyone know a weight for a well prepared ST EG? SoG's car perhaps?

SoG's EG is my old car. I had it at 2090lbs on fumes with room for improvement (still used the stock seat, 10lb battery, 10lb exhaust, 12lb front bar that most guys ditch, etc.). Looks like Brian surpassed me getting weight out.

And as Andy pointed out, SP allows update/backdate. So start with an 88 CRX HF and do all those ST weight-loss mods, and don't forget you don't have a minimum seat weight, you have much more room to work on the intake system, you don't have to retain any of the emissions junk, etc.

solo-x
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03 Aug 2011 07:01 PM
Derek wrote:
how about 99-00 Civic SI from DSP to FSP
its heavy to begin with :)

Curb weight is 2600lbs, but prepped it drops weight pretty quickly. Stock ITR curb weight is 2636lbs or something like that, and those were tipping the scales in stock trim in the 24xx's. I would expect an SP built 99-00 Civic SI to be in the low 2300lb range.

Mugenlude
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03 Aug 2011 07:05 PM
mrhongkongwong wrote:
So what is the weight of a EF Civic (not CRX) in SP trim using the lightest chassis available? low 1900's?

As listed above, the 88 HB had a stock curb weight of 1933#.... stock curb weight of 89 Si was 2161#. I think that Nate's previous guesstimate of 1790# has to be pretty close.

REALSPEED74STS
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03 Aug 2011 08:57 PM
when i ran my 89 si in CSP, with the sunroof, which is 38 lbs, we were at 1945lbs with 1/2 tank. our car was at minimum weight otherwise and we were making 136whp with a .040 over motor. The reality is the 92-95 civic belongs in the same class as the 88-91 civic, just take out the update backdate allowance to even things up. this will take out the best of breed issue and the need to scour the country side for the 88dx civic or the 92 cx/vx......
Mugenlude
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04 Aug 2011 10:09 AM
REALSPEED74STS wrote:
when i ran my 89 si in CSP, with the sunroof, which is 38 lbs, we were at 1945lbs with 1/2 tank. our car was at minimum weight otherwise and we were making 136whp with a .040 over motor. The reality is the 92-95 civic belongs in the same class as the 88-91 civic, just take out the update backdate allowance to even things up. this will take out the best of breed issue and the need to scour the country side for the 88dx civic or the 92 cx/vx......

Meaning that they would have to move the 88 Civic DX to a different line... same for the 92 Civic CX. The problem I see is that the car to have in the EF chassis is the CRX HF really (1819 lbs. curb weight), so the CRX HF would have to be separated as well.

JBrettHowell
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04 Aug 2011 11:36 AM
I know - minimum weights in SP!

(<< ducks and runs...)
Macspeed
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05 Aug 2011 12:35 AM
Keep your f-ing EFs out of FSP!!!

Jeff I am going to kick your ass for starting this post! If the EF Civic went to FSP it would ruin the class. There are enough people hating the fact the Si EG is now allowed.

I built my EG to the max allowable mods and weight reduction in ST and it didn't stand a chance to the EF.

I'm still only about half way through reading this entire post but I had to reply anyway. There are some exaggerated numbers posted about the EGs weight and power. EF civics would destroy an EG in SP trim, so stop there.

Brian
Macspeed
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05 Aug 2011 01:01 AM
Where are these huge weight saving changes coming from between ST an SP? I've been updating/backdating, going over the rules again and again, even making parts, and I haven't been able to remove even 100lbs... Quite a bit less actually. I'm scratching my head right now wondering what I am missing.
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