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Last Post 22 Aug 2011 07:22 PM by  Andy Hollis
EF Civic in FSP?
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solo-x
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05 Aug 2011 06:59 AM
From ST to SP, the EG looses:

The sunroof
Power steering (might not want to do this, but I've been told it only adds 10lbs. I've never weighed it though)
rear wiper
passenger side mirror
No min seat weight
Emissions equipment can be removed
Intake is open
Drum brakes
Lighter tires?
flywheel & clutch

You also have to start with the 92-93 chassis since 94-95 came with passenger side airbags.
Macspeed
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Posts:173


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05 Aug 2011 07:58 AM
solo-x wrote:
From ST to SP, the EG looses:

The sunroof
Power steering (might not want to do this, but I've been told it only adds 10lbs. I've never weighed it though)
rear wiper
passenger side mirror
No min seat weight
Emissions equipment can be removed
Intake is open
Drum brakes
Lighter tires?
flywheel & clutch

You also have to start with the 92-93 chassis since 94-95 came with passenger side airbags.

 

I've done it all but the power steering and rear drums, which I will not. I like power steering and I hate the idea of drum brakes on a race car ;) You are even missing some things, one being replacing the heavy airbag steering wheel with a nice lightweight racing wheel. If I were to remove the power steering and go to drums the car will barely be over 100 lbs of weight savings. Anything more would be questionable.
JBrettHowell
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05 Aug 2011 08:26 AM
solo-x wrote:
From ST to SP, the EG looses:

The sunroof
Power steering (might not want to do this, but I've been told it only adds 10lbs. I've never weighed it though)
rear wiper
passenger side mirror
No min seat weight
Emissions equipment can be removed
Intake is open
Drum brakes
Lighter tires?
flywheel &amp; clutch

You also have to start with the 92-93 chassis since 94-95 came with passenger side airbags.

+ Tilt steering column, airbag equipped steering wheel, side trim, catalytic converter, rear window washer and related hoses...

X-323STS-X
Basic Member
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Posts:152


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05 Aug 2011 08:40 AM
Everytime I see a thread referencing what a SP Civic weighs I throw up a little.
solo-x
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Posts:1244


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05 Aug 2011 09:10 AM
Thought I'd included the steering wheel. Didn't realize the DX/CX didn't have a tilt steering column. Cat is covered under emissions stuff, side trim can be removed in ST (and was only worth about 1lb total IIRC). Rocker trim might be worth more. Oh, and don't forget the rear view mirror! :P
MattP
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Posts:350


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05 Aug 2011 09:35 AM
Other stuff:
'Big brakes' really means 'light brakes', so does drum to disc conversion
Camber kit arms can be lighter than stock
Sway bars weigh something
13's are lighter than the ST wheels and tires
JBrettHowell
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05 Aug 2011 09:41 AM
solo-x wrote:
Thought I'd included the steering wheel. Didn't realize the DX/CX didn't have a tilt steering column. Cat is covered under emissions stuff, side trim can be removed in ST (and was only worth about 1lb total IIRC). Rocker trim might be worth more. Oh, and don't forget the rear view mirror! :P

DX has tilt, CX does not.

And don't forget the visors too (lower that CoG)! ;)

JBrettHowell
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05 Aug 2011 09:42 AM
X-323STS-X wrote:
Everytime I see a thread referencing what a SP Civic weighs I throw up a little.

And every time Zimmer sees such a thread, he giggles like a school girl. :P

MattP
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Posts:350


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05 Aug 2011 09:44 AM
JBrettHowell wrote:
X-323STS-X wrote:
Everytime I see a thread referencing what a SP Civic weighs I throw up a little.

 And every time Zimmer sees such a thread, he giggles like a school girl. :P

 



It's the non-horrible suspension geometry that we covet...
Andy Hollis
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts:6197


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05 Aug 2011 09:58 AM
You guys are hacks (and I mean that in the nicest way!).

Once you get done with the easy ud/bd stuff, SP weight loss is all about custom fab. Motor mounts, shift mechanism, 1 lb steering wheels, aircraft seatbelts, 1 lb batteries, a-arms, motorcycle brakes, etc. Every allowance in the rulebook is a weight savings opportunity in SP. Go look at Schenker's car for ideas.

That said, for the purposes of this discussion, almost all of those things apply equally to both EG and EF Civics. So you can either start with curb weights, or full prepped weights. They both work out almost the same in relation to each other.

--Andy

PS: I love how Macspeed condemns the exagerrated #'s, then spouts his own conclusion with zero evidence (flawed or otherwise) to support it. You can't expect people to come to the same conclusion unless you are all working from similar data.
JBrettHowell
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05 Aug 2011 10:05 AM

Ricky Bobby: ... woah woah, I said with all due respect ...

Larry Dennit: ... no, that doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want to say to me ...

Ricky Bobby: ... sure, sure as heck does ...

Larry Dennit: ... no no, it doesn't mean that ...

Ricky Bobby: ... its in the Geneva Convention, look it up ...

MattP
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:350


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05 Aug 2011 10:07 AM
Andy Hollis wrote:
Once you get done with the easy ud/bd stuff, SP weight loss is all about custom fab.

 



This is very true, and something a lot of people miss.

Anything you can replace, is something you can replace with something lighter. Bill's car is an excellent example of this, though I've always wondered why he doesn't move it all to a NA shell.

What, there's nothing that bolts on that is lighter? Make it! I don't know how many letters the SPAC gets where unavailability of some aftermarket part is cited as a reason for something. It doesn't matter that it doesn't exist, it matters that it can be made.
JBrettHowell
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New Member
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05 Aug 2011 10:09 AM
MattP wrote:...What, there's nothing that bolts on that is lighter? Make it! I don't know how many letters the SPAC gets where unavailability of some aftermarket part is cited as a reason for something. It doesn't matter that it doesn't exist, it matters that it can be made.

...and then cross-drill it! :)

Macspeed
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:173


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05 Aug 2011 11:39 AM
Andy Hollis wrote:
You guys are hacks (and I mean that in the nicest way!).

Once you get done with the easy ud/bd stuff, SP weight loss is all about custom fab. Motor mounts, shift mechanism, 1 lb steering wheels, aircraft seatbelts, 1 lb batteries, a-arms, motorcycle brakes, etc. Every allowance in the rulebook is a weight savings opportunity in SP. Go look at Schenker's car for ideas.

That said, for the purposes of this discussion, almost all of those things apply equally to both EG and EF Civics. So you can either start with curb weights, or full prepped weights. They both work out almost the same in relation to each other.

--Andy

PS: I love how Macspeed condemns the exagerrated #'s, then spouts his own conclusion with zero evidence (flawed or otherwise) to support it. You can't expect people to come to the same conclusion unless you are all working from similar data.



What evidence do I need to provide! The EF is faster, period... The evidence is infront of everyone. All things equal, ST or SP the EF is a better autocross car. And how the he'll is 3 years if testing, trial and error flawed? If you want evidence, I have a whole laptop and garage full of it.
Andy Hollis
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts:6197


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05 Aug 2011 11:58 AM
Macspeed wrote:

What evidence do I need to provide! The EF is faster, period... The evidence is infront of everyone. All things equal, ST or SP the EF is a better autocross car. And how the he'll is 3 years if testing, trial and error flawed? If you want evidence, I have a whole laptop and garage full of it.

Imagine yourself as a member of the SPAC or SEB, reading the above as member feedback to a proposal. No data, no examples, just "'cuz I said so...".

This whole situation reminds me of a similar one back when the 94-97 Miata was being considered for E-Stock, to run alongside the 2nd gen MR2. Lots of naysayers and doom/gloom. Lots of exagerated "data" that was flawed/biased towards the source's opinion. In the end, lots of prognosticators had to eat their words as the two cars mixed well, though with obvious course dependencies. Well-prepped and driven versions of either could win on any given day.

--Andy

PS: I have no dog in this fight as I have no desire to buy the purple crack (or whatever new crack supplants it). So the outcome doesn't matter to me. I'm just offering up data since Jeff asked for it.

Mugenlude
Veteran Member
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Posts:1174


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05 Aug 2011 12:54 PM
EF Civic = God's Chariot

[/thread]
Macspeed
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:173


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05 Aug 2011 03:35 PM
Mugenlude wrote:
EF Civic = God's Chariot

[/thread]

 



Lol! Hilarious! And very TRUE!

But an ugly box, Haha!
Tigermack
Basic Member
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Posts:140


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05 Aug 2011 05:54 PM
LOL
caSSino
New Member
New Member
Posts:51


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22 Aug 2011 05:15 PM
JBrettHowell wrote:
MattP wrote:...What, there's nothing that bolts on that is lighter? Make it! I don't know how many letters the SPAC gets where unavailability of some aftermarket part is cited as a reason for something. It doesn't matter that it doesn't exist, it matters that it can be made.

...and then cross-drill it, wait for it to break, and then remake and cross-drill it one less time! :)

Fissed!

porphyre
New Member
New Member
Posts:71


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22 Aug 2011 06:26 PM
Andy Hollis wrote:This whole situation reminds me of a similar one back when the 94-97 Miata was being considered for E-Stock, to run alongside the 2nd gen MR2. Lots of naysayers and doom/gloom. Lots of exagerated "data" that was flawed/biased towards the source's opinion. In the end, lots of prognosticators had to eat their words as the two cars mixed well, though with obvious course dependencies. Well-prepped and driven versions of either could win on any given day.

--Andy

Umm, I think you need to take a look at the last few years' results and the 2011 Nationals entry list to get a handle on the accuracy of those prognostications. Chalk it up to development or course dependencies... your choice...

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