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Last Post 03 Feb 2012 09:14 AM by  Zelse
SP Re-org and new BSP...Who's in?
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John V
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29 Sep 2011 11:26 AM
crv wrote:

I have a fully prepped Boxster that would come out to play in BSP too! It has no chance in ASP against Boost buggies-and at a Pro Solo- forget about it. Does anyone know when this years re-classing will be finalized?

So how much does an early Boxster with a Cayman direct injection 3.4L engine weigh? And how much did it cost to get that motor in there and running?

Pics please!

crv
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29 Sep 2011 01:45 PM
DrJones_CMR wrote

I've been trying to get Howard to change the classing for the GXP/RL at Pro Solo's.

As far as i'm concerened there's not much reason to even try next year. We lose about 0.5 to 0.7 seconds each side to the EVO's at the start. And then after 200 ft we're supposed to run an auto-x course and make up that difference.

It's like starting a run at a National Tour with a 0.5 to 0.7 second penalty.

Look at the results for the Pro-Finale compared to Nationals this year. Tim and I were DFL at the Finale. At nationals I came in 6th (0.034 out of 5th) and Tim would have beat me if he just kept his 1st day clean.

I agree, it looked and felt like over a second just at the start. Interestingly, the s2000 did stay in the new BSP. The S2000 was much closer in times to the EVO at the local Pro than my car. It actually ran in SM but it's a BSP car.

My car weighs around 2730lbs. It has 12 lbs 10x15's wheels on 275's. The 3.4 07 Engine used, average about 7000.00. Install would probably be around 5,000. In addition you need tuning, headers/exhaust etc. It sounds awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvSuklIWDw.


2001 Bsp Boxster

snaponbob
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29 Sep 2011 01:54 PM
Good grief !!!!!!!!!! You almost ran down the Cayman !!!!!!!!!!! The engine sounds GREAT.
AutoX Z
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29 Sep 2011 03:59 PM
crv wrote:
DrJones_CMR wrote

I've been trying to get Howard to change the classing for the GXP/RL at Pro Solo's.

As far as i'm concerened there's not much reason to even try next year. We lose about 0.5 to 0.7 seconds each side to the EVO's at the start. And then after 200 ft we're supposed to run an auto-x course and make up that difference.

It's like starting a run at a National Tour with a 0.5 to 0.7 second penalty.

Look at the results for the Pro-Finale compared to Nationals this year. Tim and I were DFL at the Finale. At nationals I came in 6th (0.034 out of 5th) and Tim would have beat me if he just kept his 1st day clean.

I agree, it looked and felt like over a second just at the start. Interestingly, the s2000 did stay in the new BSP. The S2000 was much closer in times to the EVO at the local Pro than my car. It actually ran in SM but it's a BSP car.

My car weighs around 2730lbs. It has 12 lbs 10x15's wheels on 275's. The 3.4 07 Engine used, average about 7000.00. Install would probably be around 5,000. In addition you need tuning, headers/exhaust etc. It sounds awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvSuklIWDw.


2001 Bsp Boxster

And my car is going to be as fast as that, much less the Skystice, because....?

John V
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29 Sep 2011 05:06 PM
Amazing. I want that car.
crv
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29 Sep 2011 06:41 PM

The video is off my Iphone and it is not a wide angle lens. So, it gives the impression its going faster that it really is. In addition, there may also be aYoutube issue as I just looked at the video and it looked sped up. That said, its a blast to drive!

John V, I may sell it this year. (I think I bought some parts from you a while back)

dmitrik4
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29 Sep 2011 09:15 PM
i would love to go to SP, but don't think "B" (old or new) is a viable landing spot.

i wonder how much width a set of 335s on 17x12s would add. ;)
Grantsfo
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30 Sep 2011 04:58 PM

I'm still asking myself how my 370Z ended up in the "new" ASP? Its heavier (will be lucky to get it down to 3000 lbs), has signficant unfavorable front weight bias and is down on power to weight from other "new" ASP cars. Given its newer car with fewer aftermarket enhancements why not let it go to BSP and see how it does? I just dont see it being a competive ASP car and even in new BSP there are faster cars.

Carls Boxster isnt developed close to SP rules yet and it is very fast car now. I'm kicking myself for not going with a SP Boxster. I could use lots of my learnings from FP Boxster build build and likely have a very fast car. A SP boxster that is maxed out to SP rules could be very lightweight (under 2700 lbs) and make some very good HP. Boxsters also are cars where all the stock stuff that can be replaced with aftermarket weigh a ton. Stock flywheel is a boat anchor, seats, exahust syetem, cats and headers. And all that weigh comes off the back where it needs to leave on a mid engine car.

mlane350z
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30 Sep 2011 05:51 PM
Only way I want the 370's in BSP is if they get put on the same line as the 350's. I wouldn't mind going to the 3.7 high rev in my car....nothing like another 40ish whp with a minimal increase in weight.
Grantsfo
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30 Sep 2011 09:04 PM
mlane350z wrote:
Only way I want the 370's in BSP is if they get put on the same line as the 350's. I wouldn't mind going to the 3.7 high rev in my car....nothing like another 40ish whp with a minimal increase in weight.

 

Well 987 Porsche Boxster and 986 are on same line. Why not put z34 and z33 Nissans on same line? The two Nissans are fairly similar in power to weight with the two generations of Boxster with Porsches being much lighter and being mid engined. Honestly I think you could put more power in z33 and not be much better off. ...especially in lower traction venues. I have both z34 and z33 and z33 is narrower but it has slightly less capable suspension than z34. 370 z is a wide car for its level of HP which is a real disadvantage. But both z34 and z33 share poor front weight bias that isn't going to be addressed in SP. Weight distribution not unlike American Pony cars. Still unsure how it was determined that 370z would be competitive in ASP class? A lighter s2000 is going to have and advantage in SP class
John V
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01 Oct 2011 02:38 PM
crv wrote:

The video is off my Iphone and it is not a wide angle lens. So, it gives the impression its going faster that it really is. In addition, there may also be aYoutube issue as I just looked at the video and it looked sped up. That said, its a blast to drive!

John V, I may sell it this year. (I think I bought some parts from you a while back)

You did buy stuff off me when I had my '00 S. Lee and my co-driver both know I've been talking about building an SP Boxster for some time, but it's just too expensive to do it right. Given we just picked up a DSP car, I don't think I'll be buying anything else for a while. When I wrote my letter in favor of the SP moves, I suggested that if the 986 and 987 were on the same line, they belonged in ASP. I think that car properly built and driven will have no trouble keeping up with an Evo, even at Pros. From that video it looks like your car needs taller gearing at the very least.

I don't know enough about the Z cars to know where they belong. A very mild local build of a 350Z on old tires was really quick when Sam hopped in it a few years ago... fast enough to suggest to me that it would easily be competitive in the new BSP. But I've never seen a full-up build ... one with the front suspension fixed, with a proper diff and with reasonable lightening.

NJGT3
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01 Oct 2011 06:10 PM
If a Boxster/Cayman can be competitive at a Pro against an Evo, it would crush the Evo at a Tour or Solo Nationals.

The reality is different. The Boxster/Cayman lose about 0.5 secs per side at a ProSolo to the Rally cars. If they could make up for such a loss at the start, they would leave the Evos out of trophies at Solo Nationals.

996 and 997 Turbo, Nissan GTR, Audi R8, Gallardo and Evo should be in the new ASP (All the AWD fast stuff).

AWD and 420 whp on E85 Evo vs. RWD and 280whp Cayman at a Pro, obvious results.

The Boxster, Cayman, 370z and 350z should be in the new BSP. 350z and 370z should be in the same line, as the 986 and 987 are listed.

mlane350z
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01 Oct 2011 07:03 PM
John V wrote:
crv wrote:

The video is off my Iphone and it is not a wide angle lens. So, it gives the impression its going faster that it really is. In addition, there may also be aYoutube issue as I just looked at the video and it looked sped up. That said, its a blast to drive!

John V, I may sell it this year. (I think I bought some parts from you a while back)

You did buy stuff off me when I had my '00 S. Lee and my co-driver both know I've been talking about building an SP Boxster for some time, but it's just too expensive to do it right. Given we just picked up a DSP car, I don't think I'll be buying anything else for a while. When I wrote my letter in favor of the SP moves, I suggested that if the 986 and 987 were on the same line, they belonged in ASP. I think that car properly built and driven will have no trouble keeping up with an Evo, even at Pros. From that video it looks like your car needs taller gearing at the very least.

I don't know enough about the Z cars to know where they belong. A very mild local build of a 350Z on old tires was really quick when Sam hopped in it a few years ago... fast enough to suggest to me that it would easily be competitive in the new BSP. But I've never seen a full-up build ... one with the front suspension fixed, with a proper diff and with reasonable lightening.

John (or Sam for that matter), if you ever want to give a z-car a chance...you are more than welcome to drive my Z at a WDCR event or AI. It is pretty well prepped (wouldn't say fully prepped, though).

Good Luck with the DSP venture.

John V
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02 Oct 2011 02:36 PM
Thanks. I may take you up on that.
christoc
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02 Oct 2011 05:03 PM
I'm in for 2012
mlane350z
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02 Oct 2011 05:56 PM
Chris Hammond wrote:
I'm in for 2012

LIES!

:).

crv
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03 Oct 2011 02:24 AM
Grantsfo wrote:

Carls Boxster isnt developed close to SP rules yet and it is very fast car now. I'm kicking myself for not going with a SP Boxster. I could use lots of my learnings from FP Boxster build build and likely have a very fast car. A SP boxster that is maxed out to SP rules could be very lightweight (under 2700 lbs) and make some very good HP. Boxsters also are cars where all the stock stuff that can be replaced with aftermarket weigh a ton. Stock flywheel is a boat anchor, seats, exahust syetem, cats and headers. And all that weigh comes off the back where it needs to leave on a mid engine car.

My Boxster actually has all the above done and more. Could still use a splitter and large rear spoiler. Could use higher rev limit but unfortunately 3.4 engines pop very easily.


It is fast, but not close to the EVO times. (Had a multi national champ drive in both cars- almost back to back with apx 2sec difference.)

Marshall Grice
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03 Oct 2011 12:11 PM
crv wrote: My Boxster actually has all the above done and more. Could still use a splitter and large rear spoiler. Could use higher rev limit but unfortunately 3.4 engines pop very easily.

It is fast, but not close to the EVO times. (Had a multi national champ drive in both cars- almost back to back with apx 2sec difference.)

If I understand correctly even you believe there is some setup work left to do. 2 sec is certainly "in the ball park".

NJGT3
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03 Oct 2011 12:58 PM
Marshall Grice wrote:
crv wrote: My Boxster actually has all the above done and more. Could still use a splitter and large rear spoiler. Could use higher rev limit but unfortunately 3.4 engines pop very easily.

It is fast, but not close to the EVO times. (Had a multi national champ drive in both cars- almost back to back with apx 2sec difference.)

If I understand correctly even you believe there is some setup work left to do. 2 sec is certainly "in the ball park".

Man, you're mean to poor Carl. 2 secs is the ball park?

I don't think there is much left to do on Carl's Boxster, he might gain another 0.5 secs, and write fat checks for frequent engine rebuilds if he tries to exceed 7400 rpm with these Porsche grenade M96 motors. So far he has blown two engines already, these Boxster/Cayman engine are that bad.

Being 1.5 secs behind the current BSP top dogs, means that the BSP Boxster would be as fast as a B-stock car.

Jason's BSP S2000 is an amazing piece of car (I want it ! I want it !), definitely faster that Carl's BSP build, put them to test and you'll find out.

Neither Jason's S2000 or Carl's Boxster can compete against the Evo on fair terms, much less at a Pro.

I don't see anything wrong with the Evo, Nissan GTR, Porsche 993, 996 and 997 Turbo, Audi R8 being in the same class. AWD dominated SP class (call it the new ASP), then use BSP for everything else that was in the class, with some minor shuffling in the current CSP/BSP/ASP.

Marshall Grice
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03 Oct 2011 02:16 PM
NJGT3 wrote: Man, you're mean to poor Carl. 2 secs is the ball park?

I don't think there is much left to do on Carl's Boxster, he might gain another 0.5 secs, and write fat checks for frequent engine rebuilds if he tries to exceed 7400 rpm with these Porsche grenade M96 motors. So far he has blown two engines already, these Boxster/Cayman engine are that bad.

Being 1.5 secs behind the current BSP top dogs, means that the BSP Boxster would be as fast as a B-stock car.

Jason's BSP S2000 is an amazing piece of car (I want it ! I want it !), definitely faster that Carl's BSP build, put them to test and you'll find out.

Neither Jason's S2000 or Carl's Boxster can compete against the Evo on fair terms, much less at a Pro.

I don't see anything wrong with the Evo, Nissan GTR, Porsche 993, 996 and 997 Turbo, Audi R8 being in the same class. AWD dominated SP class (call it the new ASP), then use BSP for everything else that was in the class, with some minor shuffling in the current CSP/BSP/ASP.

Maybe 2700lbs is too heavy for the 275-15's, and maybe they're too short for his gearing. Trust me I know how small of a difference 2 seconds is. The skystice guys have been making the exact argument for a while now and I think Braun just cleared that up in blytheville.

And yes I understand that there is a 60' time difference that won't be overcome, but i'm certain that a car that is 300lbs lighter with 600lbs less weight on the front axle and the same size tire (potentially, if not at least the same width if he sticks with the 275's) can make up time on course...if it's set up right.

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