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Last Post 17 Dec 2011 06:07 PM by  TeamRX8
20'-24' enclosed: EcoBoost, Tundra 5.7, or ___
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Primetime Glick
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07 Oct 2011 10:05 AM

    Thinking of upgrading to an enclosed, 20' or 24', vnose or flat, depends on what I find. This trailer upgrade will neccessitate a long-overdue truck upgrade. Interested in an EcoBoost F150. Static MTW wise I should have ~30% margin but that's not my concern. Does anybody have experience on long tows with this combo? Will it stay in OD @ 70 on medium grades, pushing all that air?

    Then there's the extremely rare used 5.7 Tundra WITH the good mirrors for a little less. Same deal.

    Is a 20-24' enclosed on highways too much for these trucks - i.e., bad stability, constant OD kickdowns and incendiary trans temps -- or fine?

    If not should I aim for a 6.8/6.2 gasser or diesel?

    There is a low-mileage F350 6.4TT dually I've been eyeing with a weekly-dropping price. Obviously it would do fine, but given its manual trans (yuck in my daily traffic jam filled drive) and the reportedly bad 6.4TT MPG (spitting fuel out the tailpipe for an emissions-reducing stopgap measure??) combined with higher diesel prices-- I'm not exactly jumping out of my armchair for it...

    jzr
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    07 Oct 2011 10:13 AM
    Tundra will have penty of power and brakes. Stability will be fine with a proper hitch, but a long bed might be worth pursuing if you plan a ton of towing miles.

    Ride comfort is the Tundra's weak spot IMO, as is towing range. Ford and GM product should tow just about as well and me much more civil daily drivers, if that is the plan.
    ratt_finkel
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    07 Oct 2011 10:27 AM
    Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel and don't look back. Even towing an open trailer the difference is huge.
    Primetime Glick
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    07 Oct 2011 10:33 AM
    ratt_finkel wrote:
    Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel and don't look back. Even towing an open trailer the difference is huge.

    I hate pre-2011 (or '12?) Dodge HD Ram mirrors. Narrow, no spotter (or a crappy small corner one), no integrated turn signals. Plus diesel MPG/fuel costs. So until the 2011 Cummins -- with their long overdue good mirror design (tall, big spotter, integrated TS's) -- come down by like 50% -- they're wayyy out of budget. Sorry.

    talon95
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    07 Oct 2011 10:40 AM
    The Tundra won't stay in 6th with that trailer @70. Mine does most of the time (2008 model 5.7L), but I'm only pulling an open trailer (Featherlite 3110). @75 or 80, the Tundra will downshift to 5th quite a bit, or just stay in 5th if there's a headwind.

    I don't understand the ride comfort comment though. My 2008 is perfectly comfortable on the highway. I do have a Limited, not sure if that changes the suspension over a base model or not.
    P. Lier
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    07 Oct 2011 10:58 AM

    Enclosed trailer = Diesel

    Peter

    Primetime Glick
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    07 Oct 2011 11:17 AM
    talon95 wrote:
    The Tundra won't stay in 6th with that trailer @70. Mine does most of the time (2008 model 5.7L), but I'm only pulling an open trailer (Featherlite 3110). @75 or 80, the Tundra will downshift to 5th quite a bit, or just stay in 5th if there's a headwind.

    I don't understand the ride comfort comment though. My 2008 is perfectly comfortable on the highway. I do have a Limited, not sure if that changes the suspension over a base model or not.

    Does the Tundra have a button to keep it in 5th? Is 5th like a "partial" overdrive (like the T56)?

    I just don't want something like my old 230hp 4.6/4r70w F150 screaming and lurching into 3rd/3k rpm at every grade >10% @ 70 - 80.

    jzr
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    07 Oct 2011 02:44 PM
    I have the Limited too, but with the TRD offroad stuff, maybe that makes it worse. Could also be the change to E-rated tires (Michelin); the OEM BFGs had a kinda spooky squirm to them when pulling the enclosed, even at max pressures. I also had to put airbags in the rear (deflated for street use), when towing heavy it squats too much even with a WD hitch. If the headlights would auto-adjust for the squat it would have been helpful.

    Tundra has a tow/haul software button, and the 5.7's all have the 6 speed, where it's easy to tell it what gear to use. When pulling an enclosed, you almost never use 6th, except maybe on a gradual downhill. The trans is great and not an issue, ditto the motor.

    ratt_finkel
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    07 Oct 2011 02:55 PM
    Primetime Glick wrote:
    ratt_finkel wrote:
    Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel and don't look back. Even towing an open trailer the difference is huge.

    I hate pre-2011 (or '12?) Dodge HD Ram mirrors. Narrow, no spotter (or a crappy small corner one), no integrated turn signals. Plus diesel MPG/fuel costs. So until the 2011 Cummins -- with their long overdue good mirror design (tall, big spotter, integrated TS's) -- come down by like 50% -- they're wayyy out of budget. Sorry.

    You can guy aftermarket mirrors :)

    And probably turn signals too. I had them on the caddy, I don't miss them on the Dodge.

    If fuel costs are an issue for you. The gasser motors will never have an advantage over diesel in mpg. Especially when towing.

    I have a 2005 Dodge with 85k miles I picked up for 18k.

    Primetime Glick
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    07 Oct 2011 03:16 PM
    jzr wrote:
    I have the Limited too, but with the TRD offroad stuff, maybe that makes it worse. Could also be the change to E-rated tires (Michelin); the OEM BFGs had a kinda spooky squirm to them when pulling the enclosed, even at max pressures. I also had to put airbags in the rear (deflated for street use), when towing heavy it squats too much even with a WD hitch. If the headlights would auto-adjust for the squat it would have been helpful.

    Tundra has a tow/haul software button, and the 5.7's all have the 6 speed, where it's easy to tell it what gear to use. When pulling an enclosed, you almost never use 6th, except maybe on a gradual downhill. The trans is great and not an issue, ditto the motor.

    Late model Tacomas are known to have soft rear leaves too (weird)

    So you are saying to USE the oe Tow-Haul Mode to reduce the kickdowns? Or is 5th selectable?

    Only problem with the Tundras in my eyes is finding both a 5.7 and the good telescoping mirrors amid a zilllion ads. No way to filter either option out w/ autotrader. Yeah I'm big on the mirrors - I'm a visibility freak -- and HATE aftermarket add-ons/slip ons/stick-ons/whatever. Thought about actually doing an OE TT mirror conversion on a dime-a-dozen standard-mirror 5.7 Tundra but the cost/complexity was prohibitive (e.g. door panels, switches, relays, etc. in addition to the $$ OE mirror assembly).

    jzr
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    07 Oct 2011 03:34 PM

    Tow/haul delays upshifts and generally tries to manage the transmission for heavy loads, but it doesn't preclude 6th. Truck seems little different with it on really.

    When you manually select a gear, it won't shift above that gear, but it might downshift below it. When pulling the enclosed I spend most time in 4th and 5th, some in 6th, some in 3rd.

    I don't have the big trailer mirrors, but I'm not sure they'd really help a whole lot. Visibilty is just going to suck.

    S_Whitney
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    07 Oct 2011 03:42 PM
    FWIW a 20ft enclosed was a lot of work for my previous 6.4 F250, so I would hesitate on a gas truck purchase for long term satisfaction. The terrain and your frequency of travel will help decide as well. I would not recommend the 6.4 Fords as mileage was poor with all the emmisions restrictions, and soft rear springs ( used airbags). Although they did have great interiors, very refined powertrain, and mirrors (power telescoping rocks!)

    Search for the pickuptrucks.com test done on the eco-boost trucks pulling enclosed trailers, they are thirsty when running under sustained load.
    Primetime Glick
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    07 Oct 2011 03:42 PM
    ratt_finkel wrote:
    Primetime Glick wrote:
    ratt_finkel wrote:
    Dodge Cummins Turbo Diesel and don't look back. Even towing an open trailer the difference is huge.

    I hate pre-2011 (or '12?) Dodge HD Ram mirrors. Narrow, no spotter (or a crappy small corner one), no integrated turn signals. Plus diesel MPG/fuel costs. So until the 2011 Cummins -- with their long overdue good mirror design (tall, big spotter, integrated TS's) -- come down by like 50% -- they're wayyy out of budget. Sorry.

    You can guy aftermarket mirrors :)

    And probably turn signals too. I had them on the caddy, I don't miss them on the Dodge.

    If fuel costs are an issue for you. The gasser motors will never have an advantage over diesel in mpg. Especially when towing.

    I have a 2005 Dodge with 85k miles I picked up for 18k.

    Jeremy,

    See above on the mirrors I'm a visibility honk, so no go. Besides I'm looking for something with some full warranty left. I've actually found a few ford 6.4TT diesels I've seen w/ warranty left $20-$25k, but less than that it's been a few flatbed-type V10 fords. Even if I could deal with dodge mirrors I'd be hard pressed to find a Cummins with full warranty left in that range. Or Duramax, for that matter.

    Speaking of TX Region the aforementioned 6.4TT/6MT dually is in Grapevine. Might have to make an event up there and drive it home! Possibility see ya up next year depending on how many events I can find/make around San Antonio. Maybe the local region will get the Spurs lot with the lockout??

    Primetime Glick
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    07 Oct 2011 04:11 PM
    Stan Whitney wrote:
    FWIW a 20ft enclosed was a lot of work for my previous 6.4 F250, so I would hesitate on a gas truck purchase for long term satisfaction. The terrain and your frequency of travel will help decide as well. I would not recommend the 6.4 Fords as mileage was poor with all the emmisions restrictions, and soft rear springs ( used airbags). Although they did have great interiors, very refined powertrain, and mirrors (power telescoping rocks!)

    Search for the pickuptrucks.com test done on the eco-boost trucks pulling enclosed trailers, they are thirsty when running under sustained load.

    Yeah the 6.4TT MPG/power issues is probably why their resale has dropped so much. Soft rear springs on a 3/4 ton?

    On the EB/enclosed trailer test, well DUH of course something with turbos on west coast grades was gonna suck in mpg. The hills I expect to encounter in TX should not be nearly as bad, although I expect the EB will not have good towing mpg regardless.

    I don't think it was ever designed to. I think Ford's mission on the EB was better light throttle unloaded daily driven MPG than a small V8 yet enough power to pull a medium weight trailer well. That fits in with my needs a little better than a diesel, which is gonna have high fuel costs regardless of commuting or towing.

    BigEnos
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    07 Oct 2011 05:47 PM
    Couple things. The EcoBoosts will get the 36 gal. tank option for 2012 which should help the distance between fillups. I work with a guy who pulls a boat with a 6.4L ford powerstroke. Unloaded he gets about the same mileage I do commuting with my 6.0L gas 2500HD chevy. I think his towing MPG is actually worse, but the boat is not necessarily comparable to my open trailer/car.
    talon95
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    07 Oct 2011 07:16 PM
    Primetime Glick wrote:
    talon95 wrote:
    The Tundra won't stay in 6th with that trailer @70. Mine does most of the time (2008 model 5.7L), but I'm only pulling an open trailer (Featherlite 3110). @75 or 80, the Tundra will downshift to 5th quite a bit, or just stay in 5th if there's a headwind.

    I don't understand the ride comfort comment though. My 2008 is perfectly comfortable on the highway. I do have a Limited, not sure if that changes the suspension over a base model or not.

    Does the Tundra have a button to keep it in 5th? Is 5th like a "partial" overdrive (like the T56)?

    I just don't want something like my old 230hp 4.6/4r70w F150 screaming and lurching into 3rd/3k rpm at every grade >10% @ 70 - 80.

    Yea, like Jason said, it has a manual shift mode that will let you hold it in whatever gear you want. Prevents upshifts but not downshifts. The tow-haul mode does slow down upshifts to help keep the transmission from jumping back and forth between gears as much.

    4th, 5th, and 6th gears are similar to the T56, or at least the gearing in my C5Z.

    @70mph

    4th: ~3000
    5th: ~2500
    6th: ~2000

    Number vary some depending on load and whether the converter is locked or not.

    It's a great truck. I've been really happy with it and at 40k miles I've had zero issues with it. It can pull an enclosed trailer, but as others have said, it will definitely spend time in 4th and 5th gears. The motor is very quiet, so you don't even notice it much when it's in 4th. But also as others have said, if you really want effortless towing of an enclosed trailer, get a diesel.

    talon95
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    07 Oct 2011 07:19 PM
    BigEnos wrote:
    Couple things. The EcoBoosts will get the 36 gal. tank option for 2012 which should help the distance between fillups. I work with a guy who pulls a boat with a 6.4L ford powerstroke. Unloaded he gets about the same mileage I do commuting with my 6.0L gas 2500HD chevy. I think his towing MPG is actually worse, but the boat is not necessarily comparable to my open trailer/car.

    Yea, that was something else I was forgetting to point out. My Tundra at least only has a 26 gallon tank. Not too bad when you're getting 12-13mpg with an open trailer, but the times I've got stuck in a bad headwind getting 10mpg that tank is pretty darn small.

    jzr
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    07 Oct 2011 07:50 PM
    I've had some Tundra tankfuls in the 7.x range pulling a 24' enclosed through the hills (of which there are plenty out west). I prefer to avoid the BP spike of the low fuel light being on while towing, which can mean looking for gas not long past 100 miles, with the Tundra's tank. They don't even offer a larger tank in the long bed, and Transferflow's ridiculously priced extended size unit isn't legal - can't even be bought - in CA.
    preparedcivic
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    16 Oct 2011 07:57 PM
    I had an '04 GMC 2500HD 6.0 gas with 4.10's and a 4L80E trans that did a fine job with my 20' enclosed. Mileage towing was typically low 9's, occassionally as high was 10. 70-75 in OD was no issue. Yes, hills did make for downshifts to 3rd, but it was not terrible performance by any means. A truck like this should be able to be found cheap.

    That truck got traded for a '10 Ford F350 6.4 King Ranch. Bad move. Gorgeous truck. Terrible powertrain. Three months in the shop in 14 months of ownership. Ford just took it back last week in a RAV swap for a new 6.7. Honestly, I'd rather have a 6.Blow diesel than a 6.4; this one had a loss or drive issue in the transmission, ended up endlessly stuck in regen - which combined with a required reflash last Spring created an overboost and too much fuel in regen condition that melted pistons. So a tranny rebuild and a new short block, injectors and turbo in 25,000 miles.
    Primetime Glick
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    11 Dec 2011 10:52 PM
    BigEnos wrote:
    Couple things. The EcoBoosts will get the 36 gal. tank option for 2012 which should help the distance between fillups. I work with a guy who pulls a boat with a 6.4L ford powerstroke. Unloaded he gets about the same mileage I do commuting with my 6.0L gas 2500HD chevy. I think his towing MPG is actually worse, but the boat is not necessarily comparable to my open trailer/car.

    If anyone cares (unlikely) I ended up going with an '11 EB F150 over a Tundra, mainly due to the opening style of the extended cab's doors and end-of-year rebates. But sticker and weight shock of big enclosed trailers -- WAYYY too much weight for any half-ton, based on the ones I was looking at -- has me focused on open trailers.

    Next year we'll see how the EB -- 2wd/TTP/3.55 LSD/17's/26 gal -- no not all the best options but try finding them on anything but a $50k Platinum on a dealer's lot -- does with a heavy open trailer and a loaded up bed. I think/hope it'll do 60-70 in 5th just about everywhere. Right now as just a commuter the EB & "green meter" dash gets amazing gas mileage compared to my old 4.6 and is a really nice rig. Great interior / options.

    BTW, the twice I've _had_ to put the foot into it -- it drives like you would expect a huge heavy turbo car with an automatic to drive, but once the boost kicks in (cmon ford no gauge??) -- which is low in the rpm range, just above 2k -- all 420lbs-ft is available, breaks the tires loose, and pushes the brick forward very rapidly and quietly. Easily the fastest truck I've ever driven (and faster than a few cars).

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