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Last Post 04 Dec 2013 10:26 PM by  dhrmx5
Anybody interested in keeping SSC alive?
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dhrmx5
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Posts:964


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20 Oct 2011 06:52 PM

    I am going to try this 1 more time. I don't want to see SSC go away but I am also not interested in running a FWD. Those of you already invested in the class need to ask yourselves whether or not you are better off having to race against a Miata or not race at all.

    Last time I floated this proposal a lot of you were fine with it but we really need to sell it to the CRB that this is what the class competitors want. Anybody on the CRB that isn't out there driving in the class needs to get off their "SSC is FWD" mantra.

    Spec B isn't going to save the class given that those cars won't even have a ruleset in place until after the first of the year.

    Once again, I am proposing the 2001-2005 base Miata with 15" wheels, no Torsen, and non-Bilstein suspension. 2500 lbs should be about right for a starting point.

    I just spent the last 3 days driving that config and it is a hoot. I had forgotten how much those cars lean and how difficult it is to get the inside tire to hookup. Pure fun to drive.

    This is time critical as I believe it is going to be a topic for CRB discussion in the next week.

    If we can get this done I will bring one or two down to Sebring and we can see what they have and if more adjustments are needed. I would be more than happy to let SCCA provide a driver that they have confidence in to drive the car to make sure we aren't sandbagging. Dyno time can be arranged but I believe Drago can tell you what the max you can get out of the 01+ package is.

    I currently have 3 for sure and up to 5 ready to commit to driving these cars. Seems a shame to put them in Mustangs and run SSB.

    rallyfan555
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    Posts:227


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    20 Oct 2011 09:23 PM
    Is there a reason you're excluding the 99-00 NB Miatas from your proposal?

    And I think the Bilstein suspension package you were referring to is called "Hard S" by Mazda.
    rjohnson999
    Basic Member
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    Posts:178


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    20 Oct 2011 10:30 PM
    Why do you need the CRB involved in what is clearly a regional situation? Sell this to your local region(s) as a regional only class and you can probably get exactly what you want. The CRB and BoD are committed to B-Spec. You're a day late and a dollar short with pushing this as a national class.
    dhrmx5
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    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 01:47 AM

    A day late? I've been pushing for this for 5 years. Not interested in regional. Not interested in Bspec.

    When I joined this club it had a lot more drivers participating. Seems like it's time the club listened to what the drivers are asking for. I have people looking to drive SS Miatas. I have zero requests for Spec B. Spec B doesn't even have a rule set at this time. SSC does. I don't care if the car is only usable for the year in SSC. Without it, you will be able to count the SSC entrants on your personal digits.

    Since SSC is a dead duck when Bspec takes over, why do you give a damn what cars are classified? Afraid it might make the numbers this year?

    dhrmx5
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    21 Oct 2011 01:49 AM
    rallyfan555 wrote:
    Is there a reason you're excluding the 99-00 NB Miatas from your proposal?

    And I think the Bilstein suspension package you were referring to is called "Hard S" by Mazda.

    99-00 cars have a slightly different engine and develop more power. They are competetive in SM whereas the 01+ is not. I am looking to race the 01+ in SS. It has a chance to be competetive in SSC

    texlbs
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    21 Oct 2011 03:50 AM
    dhrmx5 wrote:

    Seems a shame to put them in Mustangs and run SSB.

    Why is that? Seems we already have enough places for Miata's would be nice to see other vehicles as well.

    dhrmx5
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 10:31 AM
    texlbs wrote:
    dhrmx5 wrote:

    Seems a shame to put them in Mustangs and run SSB.

    Why is that? Seems we already have enough places for Miata's would be nice to see other vehicles as well.

    I am always amazed when someone says this. Why would this club tell any potential entrant that there are too many of their particular car in the club already???

    It would be great to see other vehicles but someone has to want to run them and PAY for them before they will show up. Other than Joel getting creative no one else is building anything for this class

    rjohnson999
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    Posts:178


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    21 Oct 2011 11:38 AM

    Stop claiming to speak for all drivers. You don't. I doubt you even speak for a meaningful number of drivers in your division. As to your equally absurd inference that I care what cars get classed, get over yourself. You're so bent on trashing the CRB/BoD you can't even recognize a positive suggestion. There's a reason national racing has a national rule set. It has to satisfy the needs and requirements of the entire club, not just one persons personal whims and desires.

    dhrmx5 wrote:

    A day late? I've been pushing for this for 5 years. Not interested in regional. Not interested in Bspec.

    When I joined this club it had a lot more drivers participating. Seems like it's time the club listened to what the drivers are asking for. I have people looking to drive SS Miatas. I have zero requests for Spec B. Spec B doesn't even have a rule set at this time. SSC does. I don't care if the car is only usable for the year in SSC. Without it, you will be able to count the SSC entrants on your personal digits.

    Since SSC is a dead duck when Bspec takes over, why do you give a damn what cars are classified? Afraid it might make the numbers this year?

    dhrmx5
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 01:23 PM
    rjohnson999 wrote:

    Stop claiming to speak for all drivers. You don't. I doubt you even speak for a meaningful number of drivers in your division. As to your equally absurd inference that I care what cars get classed, get over yourself. You're so bent on trashing the CRB/BoD you can't even recognize a positive suggestion. There's a reason national racing has a national rule set. It has to satisfy the needs and requirements of the entire club, not just one persons personal whims and desires.

    Oh, this is going to be fun...

    Just so we have an idea as to where we each stand in this club here are the specifics of what I did for the club last year:

    I personally funded entries and provided vehicles for the following:

    STO entries... 20 entries

    SSB entries... 10 entries

    T2 entries... 4 entries

    T3 entries... 4 entries

    SM entries... 6 entries

    FP entries... 2 entries

    STU entries... 14 entries

    I loaned cars out for others to do an additional 15 races.

    I donated over 700 dollars in workers appreciation funds

    I serve on the Ad/Hoc commitee for STO/STU/STL

    What the ---- did YOU do that helped out the #s in club racing???

    dhrmx5
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 01:34 PM

    Stop claiming to speak for all drivers.

    (I am asking the drivers to speak for themselves)

    You don't. I doubt you even speak for a meaningful number of drivers in your division.

    (Guess you are wrong, reference above post)

    As to your equally absurd inference that I care what cars get classed, get over yourself.

    (You must be interested, otherwise you wouldn't be responding to a post discussing getting a car classed)

    You're so bent on trashing the CRB/BoD you can't even recognize a positive suggestion.

    (You could be right on this point, I rarely see anything positive come out of the CRB/BOD, but that isn't the point of this post)

    There's a reason national racing has a national rule set. It has to satisfy the needs and requirements of the entire club, not just one persons personal whims and desires.

    (Wasn't asking for a rules change, asking for a car classification. Feel free to show me anything in the GCR that says SSC is for FWD only).

    FYI I only do National races. I have never been a regional SCCA racer.

    rjohnson999
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:178


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    21 Oct 2011 03:00 PM
    The plans for SS/T and B-Spec have been presented to the membership. It doesn't make any sense to spend the time and effort necessary to classify new cars in SSC other than B-Spec. Maybe the lack of SSC entries in your list of "accomplishment" is a better indicator of what's happening to the class. Perpetuating a dying class is exactly what the club doesn't need.

    As to the contention that your "accomplishments" qualify you to speak for all racers, they don't qualify you to speak to anything beyond your own self interest. Thank you for identifying yourself as self interested. It makes it easier to put your comments in their proper context.
    Grantsfo
    Basic Member
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    Posts:101


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    21 Oct 2011 06:01 PM
    As a member who doesnt road race I have to say B Spec is first class to spark my interest in getting out on the track. How do we support this new class effort best? I love the idea of a low displacement showroom stock class using newer cars. I'd love to see ford, honda toyota etc offer special b spec cars and pricing too!
    Jmac36
    New Member
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    21 Oct 2011 06:39 PM
    Dead Horse ,Dave!

    B-Spec is it now and WILL bring new life to SSC, In fact I know of 6-10 cars being built right now
    dhrmx5
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 08:35 PM
    rjohnson999 wrote:
    The plans for SS/T and B-Spec have been presented to the membership. It doesn't make any sense to spend the time and effort necessary to classify new cars in SSC other than B-Spec. Maybe the lack of SSC entries in your list of "accomplishment" is a better indicator of what's happening to the class. Perpetuating a dying class is exactly what the club doesn't need.

    As to the contention that your "accomplishments" qualify you to speak for all racers, they don't qualify you to speak to anything beyond your own self interest. Thank you for identifying yourself as self interested. It makes it easier to put your comments in their proper context.

    Nice but YOU haven't answered my question as to what YOU personally bring to this table. All I've seen you do is piss and moan on this forum at people who actually build cars and race them. Man up and list your accomplishments, be they many or few, selfish or charitable.

    The lack of an SSC car is an indicator that nothing that is currently classed is interesting to me. I got my start in SCCA Nationals racing a Miata in SSC back when the Runoffs could muster a 40+ car grid for most classes.

    dhrmx5
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:964


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    21 Oct 2011 08:48 PM
    Jmac36 wrote:
    Dead Horse ,Dave!

    B-Spec is it now and WILL bring new life to SSC, In fact I know of 6-10 cars being built right now

    Hi, Joe. Nice to see you getting out these days.

    If you think back, I suggested that SSC be given over to all the cheapo cars several years ago. I was more than willing to forego the Miata if the class became sensible. Nothing ever happened except a couple of ex SSB cars getting dropped down and dominating the class. How'd that work out???

    I don't have a problem with Spec B but I also don't see them showing up in adequate numbers this year. They certainly aren't going to entice the current cars that are stuck in SSC to race. Right now the only thing a Spec B brings to the table for a current SSC car is as a field filler that might trigger a few contingency dollars to get paid out.

    Right now, I see two classes being issued an unvitation to participate (SSC and T3). In a rose colored glasses sort of world I guess the assumption is they are all going to build Spec B cars. I wouldn't count on it.

    paulgauzens
    New Member
    New Member
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    21 Oct 2011 09:06 PM

    Dave

    Maybe it happened when I wasn't looking, but did you submit the classification request and get denied before? Since the CRB has announced their intention to lift the age-out rule in SS/T for 2012, wouldn't there be a long list of Honda's Neon's and other SSC cars to fill fields, too? Not against your desire for the Miata, just didn't know what you were told earlier.

    paulgauzens
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


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    21 Oct 2011 09:10 PM
    Grantsfo wrote:
    As a member who doesnt road race I have to say B Spec is first class to spark my interest in getting out on the track. How do we support this new class effort best? I love the idea of a low displacement showroom stock class using newer cars. I'd love to see ford, honda toyota etc offer special b spec cars and pricing too!

    Top of mind, there are a couple of ways to support B-Spec...

    1) Get your Comp. License, place a B-Spec order, go racing. (Maybe convince your A-X friends to do same)

    2) Become a team owner, buy 2 or 3 cars and rent them out.


    BillSeifert
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:226


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    21 Oct 2011 09:39 PM
    I can't speak for any class but SSC in NORPAC. If I am not mistaken NORPAC is David's Division. There were only 2 drivers in this Division in 2011. Me, and Ali Nami. That makes me 50% of NORPACS SSC drivers, and Dave's proposal had before, and has now, my vote.

    I only ran Thunderhill in 2011, and there were 3 SSC cars there. For the rest of the year, I was ready to go, but no other SSC cars raced in NORPAC. SSC is dead here unless something is done, and I would love to see his Miatas in SSC.

    I don't have the know-how to build a Spec B, but would love to stay in SSC.
    rjohnson999
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:178


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    21 Oct 2011 11:11 PM

    I'll tell what I don't do. I don't get on message boards pretending to speak for other people when my real objective is to create a better market for my business. Time for you to develop a new marketing plan. One that's based on reality, not something that's a figment of your imagination. The interest in B-Spec is more credible than your claims. Your personal dislike of front wheel drive cars isn't going to carry much weight with anyone.

    dhrmx5 wrote:Nice but YOU haven't answered my question as to what YOU personally bring to this table. All I've seen you do is piss and moan on this forum at people who actually build cars and race them. Man up and list your accomplishments, be they many or few, selfish or charitable.

    The lack of an SSC car is an indicator that nothing that is currently classed is interesting to me. I got my start in SCCA Nationals racing a Miata in SSC back when the Runoffs could muster a 40+ car grid for most classes.

    twin_turborx7
    Veteran Member
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    Posts:1660


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    22 Oct 2011 02:03 AM
    paulgauzens wrote:
    Grantsfo wrote:As a member who doesnt road race I have to say B Spec is first class to spark my interest in getting out on the track. How do we support this new class effort best? I love the idea of a low displacement showroom stock class using newer cars. I'd love to see ford, honda toyota etc offer special b spec cars and pricing too!

    Top of mind, there are a couple of ways to support B-Spec...

    1) Get your Comp. License, place a B-Spec order, go racing. (Maybe convince your A-X friends to do same)

    2) Become a team owner, buy 2 or 3 cars and rent them out.

    Step 1: wait for rules to be finalized "in the next several months" long after the southeast division is nearly over (April) And if you plan on running pro, start saving 6 figures. Dave: rjohnson has never and will never reveal who he is or what his involvement is beyond bashing everyone else's thrEads as if he actually is involved/does race. I am certain Dave's views on club racing topics and not just this one are more online with MOST drivers and more representative then the troll in hiding represents. I agree Miata's should go SSC and since you have been more then willing to choke them a bit out of the gate, What would be the harm other then some SSC guys would actually have someone to race. Agree the B-Spec cars that actually do get built are not going to be current SSC or T3 drivers sans a couple and again where are the cars and the schedule for pro, and the rules? Southeast division starts in 10 weeks.... One last thing about Dave, absolutely has done a lot for the drivers and workers of this club and he has been a great guy to know and extremely helpful. I know plenty of folks that have reached out to him for shortcuts on builds, tips, advice etc. And have never met anyone else as helpful or willing to help as much as Dave, myself included.
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