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Last Post 07 Jan 2001 06:18 PM by  Charlie Cave
F modified rules
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Larry R. Metz
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27 Dec 2000 03:32 PM
    I am asking if the board could explain the ruling as to Gonzales disqualification at Kansas. It was my understanding that decision was based upon the a determination that his modifications were not in line with "conventional wisdom" or something like that. It seemed to suggest that when the rule says any source, it must be within some sort of conventional thinking.

    My issue is, how does this apply to the definition of production based cars that run in modified classes? Is this a new rule for only F modified, or will it be from now on applied to all modified classes? It obviously has not been used in the past, as can be seen in a number of custome build machines that are running as so called production cars.

    I do not agree that vees should get two carbs, or anything close to that, but I am struggling with the ruling basis, and would like it to be consistently applied across the classes, not a strange new rule that suddenly appears and is applied only to F mod.

    Discussion on this issue??
    Dave Schotz
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    27 Dec 2000 07:28 PM
    Larry, Great question... hopefully we can get some SEB, and/or SCAC members to comment?
    Thanks!
    Ricardo Gonzales
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    02 Jan 2001 08:58 AM
    Larry,

    Thanks for the queation to SCCA. I of course will be very interested in their response. In case anyone is interested in the technical details my Appeal is on the SVOA web site at
    [url="http://www.geocities.com/svoa2000/National_Appeal.htm"]http://www.geocities.com/svoa2000/National_Appeal.htm[/URL]

    By the way the home page for the new SVOA web site is [url="http://www.geocities.com/svoa2000/"]http://www.geocities.com/svoa2000/[/URL]

    Thanks again,
    Ricardo gonzales
    David Ferguson
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    02 Jan 2001 02:11 PM
    If you guys start asking the hard questions, no one from SCCA's SEB will show their face around here!

    BTW - Looking at Ricardo's appeal, it looks like a legal carburator to me. Very clever, and the kind of creative engineerig that should be permitted in Modified classes.
    McRat
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    05 Jan 2001 08:02 PM
    I'm a newbie, so bear with me.
    Your manifold setup was found on 66(?) Volkswagen Fastbacks with 65hp(?) rating. I believe this was the strongest VW made that year. It's a Type III motor.

    They may be bitching about a reduced intake tract length moving your HP peak move up the RPM band. Just a guess.

    Don't they let you run Type III parts?

    ------------------
    00 red SS Z28 M6 13.6@106 stock, 312rwhp stock.
    Mods: 555r's, A032r's, ASR rev, CAGS elim, Cobra Radar Dtkr
    Dave Schotz
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    05 Jan 2001 08:09 PM
    Ferguson, with posts like that, you are the one hurting our possibilities of getting SEB comments on here!

    It is awfully hard to make 60,000+ people happy! I have definitely had my gripes with the SEB, or SCAC, but most of the time, if not all of the time, there is always a point overlooked on we the competitors part. They are not going to be able to make everyone happy, but you are setting everyone coming here for assistance up for failure with comments like that!
    Dave
    David Ferguson
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    06 Jan 2001 01:58 PM
    I appologize for my attack of the SEB by calling this a hard question. Those people work very hard and I hope that some of them will visit this little corner of the net. It would be very welcome and I promise not to disagree with them in public.

    I will register my siding with the appeallant on this particular issue based on his excellent web page.
    Dave Schotz
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    Posts:2424


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    06 Jan 2001 02:01 PM
    SCCAForums Image Thanks Dave, though you are welcome to disagree with them, just give them a chance to share their reasoning first. SCCAForums Image
    Dave Schotz
    Charlie Cave
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    07 Jan 2001 06:18 PM
    At the risk of being unpopular I have to agree with the findings of the protest committee on this one. First, let me say that I fully understand Ricardo's thinking on this and applaud his creativity. I have been in this sport about 25 years and have done similar things myself in the past. In fact I have probably been one of the worst offenders on pushing the rules.

    The task the SEB and rules writers are faced with is trying to create a set of logical, easy to understand and concrete rules concerning four different modification levels and hundreds of cars. The rules are written an concisely as possible in order to not need a team of lawyers to read them and a truck to haul them. Therefore, when allowances are given for something such as a two barrel carburetor it's best to interprit that in it's common automotive form. It can certainly reasonably be argued that *technically* Ricardo's carb is a single two barrel however, *functionally* it comes a lot closer to being dual one barrels. Think about it like this; if the rules writers wanted to allow dual one barrels they would have written that into the rules.

    Is this a defect in the rules, the protest committee or the application of the rules by Ricardo? Maybe a little of each? I honestly don't know. What I do know (from personal experience I might add) is that pushing the "gray areas" of the rules is a good way to have DSQ listed after your name at Nationals.

    In closing I'd like to remind everyone that this is an amateur sport. We are not IRL, NASCAR, CART or pro racing in any form. It is *our* sport run mostly by volunteers (our fellow competitors) trying to meet the needs of thousands of people. We can all do our part by:

    1) Not getting too creative with the rules.
    2) Assuming that thought and care went into the crafting of the rules and the decisions made by the officials.
    3) Having FUN! That's what we are here for.

    Thanks for your time.


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    Charlie
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