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Last Post 21 Jan 2012 11:07 PM by  mlane350z
Build a 350z for BSP
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Grantsfo
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11 Jan 2012 10:46 PM
AutoX Z wrote:
The 370z makes a great CS car and I will continue to lobby to get it moved from ASP to BSP over the next few years.

 

I think 370Z is only CS car that runs ASP? I tried appealing this classing decision as well. Way I look at it the 370z wouldn't be as much as a class favorite in BSP as the EVO is in ASP. It's a fatter car than 350z too.
mrazny
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12 Jan 2012 01:42 PM
Grantsfo wrote:
AutoX Z wrote:
The 370z makes a great CS car and I will continue to lobby to get it moved from ASP to BSP over the next few years.

I think 370Z is only CS car that runs ASP? I tried appealing this classing decision as well. Way I look at it the 370z wouldn't be as much as a class favorite in BSP as the EVO is in ASP. It's a fatter car than 350z too.

Whether this was actually a factor or not, none of the cars listed in new BSP are as *new* as the 370. Closest are some TT models that rolled out in 2006 (i'm pretty sure the TTS isn't part of that listing, could be wrong, would love to hear the support anyway), and the M Roadster was a 2006 model. The other JDM's were updates within the same car, not a *new* car with a new engine.

I couldn't tell you that's the philosophy, but the local SP builds are typically out of warranty cars, and ones that are cheaper than the 370 as a starting point. If I was talking potential, I don't think the 370 would be at the top of new BSP even, but possibly pretty close. For classing they have to weight the unknowns since no one has built the SP 370 to it's fullest yet, the precedent of when cars move around, and whether the negative unknowns are outweighed by participation. I'd personally say let them get built and within BSP, but I don't believe there'd be many built out 370's to support the precedent. I'd personally go with the 1 inch narrower and MUCH cheaper 350 build if I really wanted to put that much into a Nissan Z SP build. And in general i don't think it's that bad to have cars in general have 3-4 years development time in the market (not neccesarily in the autocross world) before they get placed down where they should. It's always easier to move down instead of move up.

AutoX Z
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12 Jan 2012 02:21 PM
Grantsfo wrote:
AutoX Z wrote:
The 370z makes a great CS car and I will continue to lobby to get it moved from ASP to BSP over the next few years.

I think 370Z is only CS car that runs ASP? I tried appealing this classing decision as well. Way I look at it the 370z wouldn't be as much as a class favorite in BSP as the EVO is in ASP. It's a fatter car than 350z too.

All the Boxsters go to ASP but they have some great update options available to them.

Grantsfo
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12 Jan 2012 02:57 PM
AutoX Z wrote:
Grantsfo wrote:
AutoX Z wrote:
The 370z makes a great CS car and I will continue to lobby to get it moved from ASP to BSP over the next few years.

I think 370Z is only CS car that runs ASP? I tried appealing this classing decision as well. Way I look at it the 370z wouldn't be as much as a class favorite in BSP as the EVO is in ASP. It's a fatter car than 350z too.

All the Boxsters go to ASP but they have some great update options available to them.

Yes however they are on same line as 3.4 Boxster S. Essentially putting a Cayman S motor in a lightweight early model car - so 350 HP in a 2600 to 2700 lb mid engine car with bolt in GT3 suspension. I know these cars well. They have far more potential than the 370Z. If I was intent on doing well in the new ASP I'd sell the 370Z and move to an EVO or 3.4 liter Boxster conversion.

Grantsfo
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12 Jan 2012 03:33 PM
mrazny wrote:
Grantsfo wrote:
AutoX Z wrote:
The 370z makes a great CS car and I will continue to lobby to get it moved from ASP to BSP over the next few years.

I think 370Z is only CS car that runs ASP? I tried appealing this classing decision as well. Way I look at it the 370z wouldn't be as much as a class favorite in BSP as the EVO is in ASP. It's a fatter car than 350z too.

Whether this was actually a factor or not, none of the cars listed in new BSP are as *new* as the 370. Closest are some TT models that rolled out in 2006 (i'm pretty sure the TTS isn't part of that listing, could be wrong, would love to hear the support anyway), and the M Roadster was a 2006 model. The other JDM's were updates within the same car, not a *new* car with a new engine.

I couldn't tell you that's the philosophy, but the local SP builds are typically out of warranty cars, and ones that are cheaper than the 370 as a starting point. If I was talking potential, I don't think the 370 would be at the top of new BSP even, but possibly pretty close. For classing they have to weight the unknowns since no one has built the SP 370 to it's fullest yet, the precedent of when cars move around, and whether the negative unknowns are outweighed by participation. I'd personally say let them get built and within BSP, but I don't believe there'd be many built out 370's to support the precedent. I'd personally go with the 1 inch narrower and MUCH cheaper 350 build if I really wanted to put that much into a Nissan Z SP build. And in general i don't think it's that bad to have cars in general have 3-4 years development time in the market (not neccesarily in the autocross world) before they get placed down where they should. It's always easier to move down instead of move up.

I was on the way to buidling SP 370Z last year. I started with a 2010 Nismo. I put lightweight aluminum hat rotors and Brembo race calipers, lightweight cats, OSG LSD, Lightweight 18x10.5 inch wheels with 315 Hoosiers, Progress front bar, JRZ club sports, intakes, High Flow Cats, adjustable suspension arms, lightweight PC680 battery. In this trim it was schooled by BSP Boxster with a Cayman S motor and EVO at 2011 National tour.. It ran head to head with BSP 350Z's in the class. Car was about 3150 lbs at that point and made about 310 WHP. Granted we had major abs ice mode issues but by our last runs we were working around that issue be braking earlier and smoother. Im a medium level driver - not the fastest for sure but not slowest either. For reference I ran my old FP boxster around West Course around 66 Seconds at Nationals last year.

Last month I put recaro seats and momo race steering wheel in the car. Not a huge weight savings in a Nismo. I have long tube headers to install, uprev tuning, lightweight fly wheel, lightweight pullies and belt that may get the motor to 340 WHP best case. Car might get down to 2950 lbs. If I pull AC and stereo. 30 WHP from my current levels with free flowing intakes, exhaust and Nismo cat back are realistic. I still dont see 370Z being an ASP contender but wont stop me from building it to best of my ability. Although Im considering throwing in the towel and just building forced induction 370Z SSM car as I see ASP as hopeless. At least in SSM i'd have a slow 600 HP rocket ship.

Here is the car

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jBRboAiuG0Y/TaxWBGcQMnI/AAAAAAAAADM/qNofIuR4KVQ/s512/JR1N7832.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SIVwPznpF8M/Tsr2ebWaCFI/AAAAAAAAASo/K6X8VcB9htI/s512/IMAGE_C18E527A-B21F-4863-B117-A084F45976D7.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_PX7Pzvhn0Y/Tsr3xme7AgI/AAAAAAAAAVw/PZ4IiWKKL_o/s512/IMAGE_AB1133B7-742D-4397-A494-46A6314890BB.JPG

mlane350z
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12 Jan 2012 04:24 PM
If you can really make 340whp at 2950lbs you have no business in the "new" BSP IMO. That is only ~50lbs more than a bare bones BSP 350 and some 50whp more than the DE (and 30 more than the HR). The gearing is also better in the 370.
AutoX Z
Basic Member
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Posts:231


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12 Jan 2012 04:37 PM
I think 340 whp is completly unrealistic. I've seen multiple dyno's of cars with full intake/exhaust/tune like you're planning that barely made it to 320 whp. I don't know what dyno you saw 310 on with your current mods but that already seems high in my experience.
Grantsfo
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Posts:101


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12 Jan 2012 06:10 PM
AutoX Z wrote:
I think 340 whp is completly unrealistic. I've seen multiple dyno's of cars with full intake/exhaust/tune like you're planning that barely made it to 320 whp. I don't know what dyno you saw 310 on with your current mods but that already seems high in my experience.

310 WHP with Intakes and HFC with 100 octane race gas is realistic on a Nismo tuned car. That was on cool day on a Dynojet 2WD SAE corrected. Technically it was 308.34 WHP. I get unlimited dyno time and made several pulls all in 305 to 308 range. Maybe not a standard 370Z but remember Nismo has avantage of some tuning on variable cams too. . Im stating very best case. And even if I could attain 340 WHP I dont think the car would be competitive with an EVO.

I have had time with 370Z Grand Am team and one of the guys tuning those cars - they did work on VQ37 Motor for a little bit before they scrapped that motor and did a VQ 37 block with VQ35 heads. LOL! Dont think you have seen too many VQ37 cars with long tube headers and using rev ranges beyond 7500. These motors come alive with a good set of headers, not typical short header combos that most people install. I do think 330 WHP is attainable on race gas with long tube headers. Up rev has finally cracked the Nismo tune on the cams so we may start to see a little higher outputs now. So guess I'm forging new ground here? I actually have access to guy who tuned the Grand Am cars so if anyone is going to extract optimum HP think I have the guy now. Like I said still dont think that will put me in running with Evos. Blown cars have that explosive mid range that I cant get from a NA V6.

Here is my 308 Dyno Run in Nismo tuned car with intakes and HFC cats on 100 octane.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_t59ch8Hlx8/Tw9mATgNIlI/AAAAAAAAAYs/JR4x89SAxp4/s800/grant%252520k%252520sae%252520308.jpg

Grantsfo
Basic Member
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Posts:101


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12 Jan 2012 06:25 PM
mlane350z wrote:
If you can really make 340whp at 2950lbs you have no business in the "new" BSP IMO. That is only ~50lbs more than a bare bones BSP 350 and some 50whp more than the DE (and 30 more than the HR). The gearing is also better in the 370.

We should just be on same line. Having both cars I can say the 350 Z has some advantages. Again I'm stating best case. I dont think I will attain either of those numbers frankly. And I think I could get a DE down to 2800 lbs and put a HR motor in it that makes 310 WHP. I havent seen a single example of a maxed out 350Z yet in SP. Your getting there but you still have opportunities.

But as I mentioned I will go to slaughter in ASP with a smile on my face. Im just having fun developing the car. I have given up on my appeal for BSP consideration.

mlane350z
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Posts:238


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12 Jan 2012 06:36 PM
Not a chance, even in the world of the interwebs, are you getting a 350 down to 2800 flat. I don't have a problem with them being dropped down to the same line, but I don't see it happening in the near term.
GlennAustin
Advanced Member
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21 Jan 2012 10:56 PM
mlane350z wrote:
^In full blown, street prepared form a DE on E85 is probably in the 290.....maybe 295whp. Torque will be strong....close to 280wtq.

I know of an original DE on premium that was making over 300 HP (305, more than my RevUp).

My RevUp (should I ever decide to convert mine to from Stock to SP) should be able to easily make 315 HP -- and probably more. Much of the issue with previous attempts have been trying to do that using the stock ECU, and the stock ECU is designed to limit power to a warrantee-able amount.

mlane350z
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21 Jan 2012 11:01 PM
GlennAustin wrote:
mlane350z wrote:
^In full blown, street prepared form a DE on E85 is probably in the 290.....maybe 295whp. Torque will be strong....close to 280wtq.

I know of an original DE on premium that was making over 300 HP (305, more than my RevUp).

My RevUp (should I ever decide to convert mine to from Stock to SP) should be able to easily make 315 HP -- and probably more. Much of the issue with previous attempts have been trying to do that using the stock ECU, and the stock ECU is designed to limit power to a warrantee-able amount.

Not a chance you make 315whp on a dynojet (SAE) with a DE. My guess is that was the infamous church dynopack....my car would probably make 330 on that thing.

mlane350z
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21 Jan 2012 11:07 PM
Also for reference, my car at 275-280whp has the highest 1/4mi trap of any stock long block DE. Not that means much, but just for reference on power. Only thing left I can do is some additional plenum work and E85. There might be another 10-15whp in it. Rev-up might make 3-5whp more, but not nearly the tq.
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