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Last Post 10 Jan 2012 02:46 PM by  solo-x
Prepping for 2012 and have a few questions. Need Help!!
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psycko069
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25 Dec 2011 12:53 PM

    I have presented these questions on a couple other forums and I am still seeking knowledge and interpretations of these rules. Any help is greatly appreciated.

    First a little about me. 2011 was my first year ever competitively racing my 2006 Evo MR. In the past I have drag raced a few times but to be honest drag racing this car was kind of boring. In February I began racing in the local chapter auto crosses in BSP. After the first event my wife decided she wanted to give it a go, and in March she co-drove the car with me. She loved it and we co-drove the car for the rest of the year. In the meantime I ended up winning the BSP championship for the year. It was a great time and I can't wait for February to come back around so we can get back behind the wheel.

    So now the car is going under the knife to prep for the new rules, and us getting bumped to ASP. I have some questions that need clarification, and I look to and I am asking my fellow SCCA members for a hand in making sure I don't violate the rules..


    15.10.G - Intake water systems are allowed
    Does this mean that a meth kit is legal if it is piped into the intake system? Or what about a Water/Meth mix? Or water only? I seem to remember hearing that meth kits are prohibited, but this rule states differently.. Please explain.

    15.10.C.4.d - No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves. Are they referring to a wastegate? If so, please reference 15.10.C.4.f - Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are permitted. The reason I ask is that we are looking at changing the wastegate actuator and spring. The wastegate itself would not be changed in size or anything. Please clarify..

    15.10.AA - Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that alternate cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam timing if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as standard. Type of cam drive (chain, belt, gear) must remain as standard. Alternate parts of the same general type (e.g. roller chain in place of “silent” chain) may be substituted. Mating parts (block, heads, covers, retainers, etc.) may not be altered. Vehicles equipped with a variable cam and/or valve timing system as standard may use alternate computer calibration to adjust cam and/or valve timing but may not change or substitute cam drive components (hardware). This only speaks about the camshafts and related components. I cannot find anywhere that speaks about the valve train itself. We would like to raise the rev limiter and to do it safely we were looking at valves, springs and retainers. We would not be changing the camshafts. Would this be legal?

    I failed to find anything that talks about changing the headgasket or installing stronger head studs. Is this legal?

    Thanks for all the help.


    justint5387
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    25 Dec 2011 02:20 PM
    1. Water does not equal meth, water ONLY
    2. Cannot change wastegate, has to be OEM
    3. No valve modification

    Basically if it doesn't say you can do it, it's illegal!
    snaponbob
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    25 Dec 2011 03:35 PM
    To expand on mods to the engine -- I believe you can change/modify the intake manifold (after the turbo) as well as the intake system (before the turbo), but any changes to the intercooler must fit where the stock one is without modification. You can not change anything between the intake manifold gasket and the exhaust manifold gasket. You can do anything with the exhaust manifold, but again not the turbo. After the turbo anything can be done provided the rules are met for where the end of the exhaust is and the dB output. Most anything can be done to the fuel system including any "pump gasoline". The real BIG power will be with bigger injectors, E85, and a "tune". As many Evo guys will tell you, all that power and traction comes with a price -- plan on a clutch!!!
    psycko069
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    25 Dec 2011 04:41 PM
    Oh I have failed to give a current list of modifications. I apologize..

    02 housing,
    3 inch turbo back exhaust,
    test pipe,
    k&n drop in air filter,
    Walbro 255 fuel pump,
    AMS FMIC,
    AMS LICP,
    step colder spark plugs,
    Muellerized coil overs,
    Power slot rotors,
    Hawk HP Plus pads,
    Enkei RPF-1 rims,
    Hankook Ventus Z-214 stickies in a C-71 compound,
    A custom AMS tune.

    The car has 60k miles and the stock diffs and clutch. Everything still seems to be tight with no slipping that is noticeable.

    I placed a small order yesterday consisting of a Cobb Air Intake kit and a Whiteline adjustable rear sway bar. I am currently looking for adjustable end links for the front and rear sway bars, a small battery kit, and an upper intercooler pipe.

    I spoke with a friend of mine who is a mechanic and very knowledgeable with the 4G63 power plant and the Evo, He said that the stock intake manifold and exhaust manifold were quite well engineered from the factory and going aftermarket would not see any noticeable gains worth the costs associated with them. He is the one who brought up these questions in the first place, as a route to go with the car to pick up some more power. So everything that I asked is a no go then huh....
    psycko069
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    25 Dec 2011 04:45 PM
    As far as the wastegate, I would not be changing the wastegate itself, just the actuator and spring... There would be no changes to the wastegate itself...
    snaponbob
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    25 Dec 2011 06:29 PM
    The key to legality for the intercooler is that nothing can be cut to fit it. (Unless the wording has changed.)
    psycko069
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    25 Dec 2011 09:00 PM
    The intercooler is legal and nothing has been cut to fit, it is not the huge AMS front mount that I believe they coined the "Race FMIC". It is the smaller and thinner one...
    djsilver
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    28 Dec 2011 12:23 AM

    I'm not an EVO guy and I'm not sure what all those abbreviations stand for in your mod list.

    1. Intake water systems- already answered; water only

    2. Blowoff/Popoff valves. These are the things that are between the compressor outlet and the intake valves. Some "recirculate" and some go to atmosphere and go "pshhhhhhh!". I don't know if the EVO has one but if it does, you can't change it and if it doesn't you can't add one.

    2.a- wastegate? According to the way I read the rules you can change the spring and actuator (based on 15.10.C.4.f) but not the size/number/location (based on 15.10.C.4.b).

    3. Valve train? You can add adjustable timing gears as long as you car doesn't already have variable valve timing. If it does, you can play with the computer settings but you can't do both. You can't do anything else to the valve train, including the cams/rockers/lifters/buckets/springs/spring seats/etc.

    This has already been mentioned, but considering the rules, your best bang for the buck would probably be switching to E85. Just remember, anything you do to make the car faster is going to make your wife faster as well. Ask me how I know..., ;-)

    psycko069
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    28 Dec 2011 02:26 PM
    Thank you for your input.

    The Evo does have a stock BOV, and it is recirculated. I have no desire to add or make any changes to this. It doesn't leak or cause any problems so I am not worried about it.

    That is the way I read the wastegate rules as well. So I am hoping that a rules steward or guru will poke in here and answer it for certain. I am hoping to change the spring for a stiffer one so that the wastegate will no longer leak by..

    Valvetrain... Damn... I was hoping to strengthen the head a bit so we can bump the redline...

    Yea, I am doing research on E-85 now. I was thinking about running it anyways... I guess its going to be for certain now....

    My wife, yea I think she is fully aware about that and this is the reason that she hasn't harped on me about spending money on the car!!!!! So to all you out there who have wives who get angry when money is spent on the car, just let them race it and her outlook will change!!! HAHAHAHA!!!!

    Thanks
    Jeremy
    actor
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    30 Dec 2011 01:34 AM
    djsilver wrote: You can add adjustable timing gears as long as you car doesn't already have variable valve timing. ...

    Not true. You can change cam gears no matter the system. That being said, if you have variable valve/cam timing, why would you? It's a very small point, but don't want misinformation to get out there. :-)

    djsilver
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    30 Dec 2011 03:49 AM
    actor wrote:
    djsilver wrote: You can add adjustable timing gears as long as you car doesn't already have variable valve timing. ...

    Not true. You can change cam gears no matter the system. That being said, if you have variable valve/cam timing, why would you? It's a very small point, but don't want misinformation to get out there. :-)

    I won't argue with you but I've pasted the relevant section of the 2011 rules below. Bolding is mine.

    AA. Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that alternate

    cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam timing

    if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as standard.

    Type of cam drive (chain, belt, gear) must remain as standard. Alternate

    parts of the same general type (e.g. roller chain in place of “silent”

    chain) may be substituted. Mating parts (block, heads, covers,

    retainers, etc.) may not be altered. Vehicles equipped with a variable

    cam and/or valve timing system as standard may use alternate

    computer calibration to adjust cam and/or valve timing but may not

    change or substitute cam drive components (hardware).

    psycko069
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:19


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    30 Dec 2011 10:13 AM
    So can I change the wastegate actuator and/or spring? I have heard both points in this thread and I am still unsure of the correct answer...
    cc gti
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    30 Dec 2011 10:38 AM
    In looking at your list of mods there are no suspension related mods excepts for the R-comps. I would concentrate on suspension mods instead of power. You will see a greater gains in your times with a well set up coilover/sway bar/and Hoosiers.
    85rx-7gsl-se
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    30 Dec 2011 01:41 PM
    ^ it says he has muellerized coilovers.
    psycko069
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    30 Dec 2011 06:57 PM
    Yup. Muellerized JIC Coilovers have been on the car for the past season. I have a Whiteline rear swaybar, Whiteline front swaybar endlinks and Whiteline rear swaybar endlinks in the mail right now. Also have upgraded rotors and pads for stopping duties, and I am considering picking up a set of stainless steel brake lines before I change out the brake fluid. I did not add them because they are not on the car as of yet, and did not pertain to the questions that I had. Thankyou for your input though. It is appreciated..

    Any other input on the wastegate actuator and spring?
    actor
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    30 Dec 2011 08:21 PM
    djsilver wrote:
    actor wrote:
    djsilver wrote: You can add adjustable timing gears as long as you car doesn't already have variable valve timing. ...

    Not true. You can change cam gears no matter the system. That being said, if you have variable valve/cam timing, why would you? It's a very small point, but don't want misinformation to get out there. :-)

    I won't argue with you but I've pasted the relevant section of the 2011 rules below. Bolding is mine.

    AA. Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that alternate

    cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam timing

    if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as standard.

    Type of cam drive (chain, belt, gear) must remain as standard. Alternate

    parts of the same general type (e.g. roller chain in place of “silent”

    chain) may be substituted. Mating parts (block, heads, covers,

    retainers, etc.) may not be altered. Vehicles equipped with a variable

    cam and/or valve timing system as standard may use alternate

    computer calibration to adjust cam and/or valve timing but may not

    change or substitute cam drive components (hardware).

    Hmmm, I see your point. I don't think that was the intention; I'll run it by the boys on the next SPAC call and see what happens.

    Bill

    actor
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    30 Dec 2011 08:24 PM

    Dbl. post


    psycko069
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    31 Dec 2011 12:38 PM
    If you could ask about the wastegate actuator and spring as well, it would be much appreciated.
    Marshall Grice
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    01 Jan 2012 03:07 PM

    Most of this has already been answered but...

    -Meth injection is not allowed.

    -wastegate actuators/springs are open. ....you don't need to change it on an evo, but you can if you want. The stock actuator has no problem holding enough boost to toss the rods out the side of the block, ask me how I know. :( Evo's dont' have blow off/pop off valves so the rule you quoted doesn't apply to us.

    -valve train is explicitly off limits. we have run a 7800 rpm limiter for years with no troubles and have pushed it to 8k on occasion.

    --I've had official SPAC review of 15.10.AA asking if it was legal to change the non variable cam gear in a system that has 2 cam gears with only of of them being computer controlled and the answer was that it was not legal.

    -Headgaskets and head bolts must be stock or equivalent. ARP head studs are not equivalent to stock head bolts. there really is no need to run anything other than the stock head gasket on an evo.

    cc gti
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    04 Jan 2012 11:01 AM
    85rx-7gsl-se wrote:
    ^ it says he has muellerized coilovers.

    Crap, missed that. Had that website bookmarked when I was looking into some Ohlins special sauce.

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