TedDBere
Veteran Member
Posts:1813
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| 01 Mar 2012 03:57 PM |
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Is SS the only class where the perceived "cars to have" are not the ones dominating the entry lists?
Looking at Dixie the C5Z has the most entries...but has been considered "dead" ever since the introduction of the GT3 and Elise into SS...and now the C6Z, Viper non-ACR and 997s are viewd as the cars to have along with the Elise. But the C5Z entries just keep growing as this platform becomes less expensive. I can't remember a national event won by a C5Z that didn't involve rain ever since the Elise and GT3s where let into the class.
Imagine the participation increase if it were a spec C5Z class and you didn't have to be concerned with some upper expensive exotic showing up to snatch the contingency tires...the time for a spec class is coming...IMHO
Is the C5Z just so much fun to autox that the owners don't mind not winning tires and jackets? I think yes.... |
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Garick
New Member
Posts:
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| 01 Mar 2012 07:24 PM |
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2011 NJ Pro? Was is dry for the 2010 peru tour? |
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hklvette
Basic Member
Posts:126
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| 01 Mar 2012 08:17 PM |
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relatively low cost of entry and great daily manners probably don't hurt.
and no, it doesn't hurt either that they are just fun to drive :) |
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David Lehman
Veteran Member
Posts:2149
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| 01 Mar 2012 08:33 PM |
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TedDBere wrote:
Is SS the only class where the perceived "cars to have" are not the ones dominating the entry lists?
Looking at Dixie the C5Z has the most entries...but has been considered "dead" ever since the introduction of the GT3 and Elise into SS...and now the C6Z, Viper non-ACR and 997s are viewd as the cars to have along with the Elise. But the C5Z entries just keep growing as this platform becomes less expensive. I can't remember a national event won by a C5Z that didn't involve rain ever since the Elise and GT3s where let into the class.
Imagine the participation increase if it were a spec C5Z class and you didn't have to be concerned with some upper expensive exotic showing up to snatch the contingency tires...the time for a spec class is coming...IMHO
Is the C5Z just so much fun to autox that the owners don't mind not winning tires and jackets? I think yes....
I think it's all about the driver.
Advantage to the Elise on a billion slalom course......
Advantage to GT3 on a prosolo course
Advantage to the C6Z06 on a course where you are routinely hitting 90 mph (ft. myers)
Advantage to the Boxter Spyder if the GT3, Elise, and Corvettes don't show up. |
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cbramey
Advanced Member
Posts:739
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| 02 Mar 2012 01:33 AM |
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the c5z is far and away the most fun autocross car ever made, and the best sports car value on the planet. nothing is even in the ballpark.
unfortunately, though i rarely (maybe never? i can't remember) lost a pro in one, i quit running it when they ruined the class with the elise and gt3.
i HATE driving elises. but i am ALWAYS faster in one than a c5z. same for GT3. i also HATE c6 corvettes. but i think a c5 would whip these cars all day long.
we really just need a spec c5z class and i'd never autocross anything else as long as i lived.
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Andy Hollis
Senior Member
Posts:6197
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| 02 Mar 2012 07:21 AM |
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cbramey wrote:
we really just need a spec c5z class and i'd never autocross anything else as long as i lived.
Ummmm...you already aren't autocrossing anything else. Cuz you aren't autocrossing at all. :P
Get yer butt out there, Ass man!
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TedDBere
Veteran Member
Posts:1813
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| 02 Mar 2012 09:04 AM |
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cbramey wrote:
the c5z is far and away the most fun autocross car ever made, and the best sports car value on the planet. nothing is even in the ballpark.
we really just need a spec c5z class and i'd never autocross anything else as long as i lived.
Chris, I think I'm with you on this one....
I may just drive my C5Z all the way to retirement. Tires are less expensive than the C6Z, cost of maintainence is extremely low. You buy one for around 20k, spend 5k in upgrades and extra wheels and then autocross it till you can't autox anymore...
Imagine the number of autox'ers who would jump into the spec class if they knew some alien wasn't going to beat the class by jumping into a co-drive of some exotic.
A spec C5Z class would have the appeal of the Mod classes (build it once and don't worry about being outdated next year) along with a low cost of entry and maintainence. It would be an "owners" class, not co-driver's class....
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snaponbob
Veteran Member
Posts:2831
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| 02 Mar 2012 09:30 AM |
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A serious question - would it make sense to have a Spec C5Z class only at Tours and Nats and otherwise leave them in their "normal" class at Regional levels? Regions already have the option of modifying classes whenever they want so that could be addresses at a local level. If there was actually enough response (participation) would it negatively impact their existing class? "C5/S"? |
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| Bob Buxbaum
STX E36 328
KC Region |
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alludc
New Member
Posts:89
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| 02 Mar 2012 09:30 AM |
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well, I only have a astock c5, I agree that this, or the c5z is a keeper. I have no intention of selling this car. it was cheap to get in to, parts are available everywhere for relatively cheap, its still a sharp car. So from time to time ill throw a lil at it to keep it lookin good and runnin hard. And its always going to be semi-competitive where it is, and when its not...its still gonna be a helluva good time to drive, as always. |
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85rx-7gsl-se
Basic Member
Posts:234
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| 02 Mar 2012 10:11 AM |
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Sounds like an interesting concept and a good way to level the playing field. I wouldn't mind hopping into a C5Z once I am a little more established and decide to part with my Cobalt SS/TC. |
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TedDBere
Veteran Member
Posts:1813
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| 02 Mar 2012 10:12 AM |
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snaponbob wrote:
A serious question - would it make sense to have a Spec C5Z class only at Tours and Nats and otherwise leave them in their "normal" class at Regional levels? Regions already have the option of modifying classes whenever they want so that could be addresses at a local level. If there was actually enough response (participation) would it negatively impact their existing class? "C5/S"?
I'll speak for myself here Bob.
When I autox locally I don't really care what class I'm in...SS, Pro, SSP, SSM...whatever. I'm usually just getting seat time or scrubbing tires in preparation for the next "big" event. I actually often pick my class for the day based on when I can leave the earliest (I do have a life outside of autox and leaving earlier actually helps the marriage.). I've won enough trophies and local class championships not care about those anymore...let the new guys win those because it encourages them to come back. If I don't have someone in my passenger seat at a local event I actually feel the run was wasted, I like instructing.
I have wood, I don't need a "jacket", and I'm getting old enough now that I just want to have fun, be competitive, and not spend so much money my wife will leave me.
A spec C5Z class at non-local events would be perfect for me...and, I suspect, many others like me who love to autox and want to be beaten by the best driver, not the best car.... |
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talon95
Veteran Member
Posts:1873
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| 02 Mar 2012 11:08 AM |
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The spec C5Z class will be a hard sell with 20+ entries showing up at Tours. It is interesting, I think the very limited availability (due to price and production #'s) of the exotics in the class keeps the class viable despite the popular cars potentially not being the fastest cars. Nothing will change as long as the class stays well populated (and should it??).
Dave G. |
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Richbot
Basic Member
Posts:284
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| 02 Mar 2012 11:47 AM |
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I think it's because the C5Z is probably the most fun you can have an autocross course short of a kart, and the bang for the buck just keeps getting better even with Hoosiers getting up there. One of the few cars I've driven that is just plain fun on an autocross course regardless of the stopwatch. |
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Richbot
Basic Member
Posts:284
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David Lehman
Veteran Member
Posts:2149
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| 02 Mar 2012 12:03 PM |
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If you have a spec C5Z class....
Then what about the C6Z ? The Grand Sport ?
The Elise ?
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In theory it sounds good, but it's just more watering down of the competition.
Great turn out in SS at Dixie. Slightly Vette heavy. Nothing wrong with that.
So far I am the only one with the barely exotic car. I am no threat.
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Ted, let's say for argument sake that the Elise and the GT3 were not allowed in SS, and so out of 25 or so drivers you placed 11th and once we add back the Elise and Gt3 you move back possibly or not to 15th. Does it matter that much.
Everyone wants to do well. Some expect to win, others to have a fun battle with their friends.
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Other than pride.......when you finish 3rd to Whatever.....does it matter ??
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One day I would like to drive a C5Z, but I have never driven one yet. They look like fun, as from what everyone says they are bulletproof etc.
But under the spec class reasoning do we outlaw other than stock shocks ?
Do we make everyone use tires in the same condition ?
Do we support trying to put a human being on MARS, or more importantly try to amass the largest beer can collection that the world has ever seen. (A can of 007 beer is really rare)
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So in summation I think more resources should be devoted to giving breast implants more of a "real feel".........than the hard globes that I gotta feel now.
The above, and the environmental implications of Burmese Pythons overwhelming native species, especially the Southern Brown Tree Rat in the Everglades....these are the problems and issues that we as a club and as a nation must deal with, before global warming heats up racing surfaces to temperatures greater than the Hooiser A6 was designed to operate at.
Please govern yourself accordingly,
David H. Lehman |
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85rx-7gsl-se
Basic Member
Posts:234
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| 02 Mar 2012 12:09 PM |
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And once again David makes a post that I only understand 50% of, yet agree with 100%. |
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David Lehman
Veteran Member
Posts:2149
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| 02 Mar 2012 01:27 PM |
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TedDBere wrote:
Is SS the only class where the perceived "cars to have" are not the ones dominating the entry lists?
Looking at Dixie the C5Z has the most entries...but has been considered "dead" ever since the introduction of the GT3 and Elise into SS...and now the C6Z, Viper non-ACR and 997s are viewd as the cars to have along with the Elise. But the C5Z entries just keep growing as this platform becomes less expensive. I can't remember a national event won by a C5Z that didn't involve rain ever since the Elise and GT3s where let into the class.
Imagine the participation increase if it were a spec C5Z class and you didn't have to be concerned with some upper expensive exotic showing up to snatch the contingency tires...the time for a spec class is coming...IMHO
Is the C5Z just so much fun to autox that the owners don't mind not winning tires and jackets? I think yes....
Ted, the only person that says that the C5Z is dead.........is......drum roll....
YOU !
Your pronouncements about the Elise or GT3 rendering the C5Z06 being DEAD.....are almost as
common as my posts on breasts.
SS looks like a very fun friendly bunch as Dixie.
And when have you or I thought to ourselves, "Damn, if only Jr. or Matthew or Gary were driving a C5Z06.....those sons a bitches are stealing my tires"
With you running 60 run tires.....it's the almost the same as winning tires.....you come out ahead in the cost per run issue.
Currently I am consulting a famous Surgeon, Dr. Cutchadickoff, in an attempt to run the ladies class at Dixie. Between that and the Porsche.....I think I have a possible shot at 1st or 2nd.
Let's see........150k sex reassignment surgery > 2 free tires.
Are autocrossers smart or what ?
Ever wonder why when you tell someone what you do for a hobby, "I drive around orange cones in a parking lot"......and they look at you like they know your wife and sister....(because they actually are the same person)...............
It's because this stuff is stupid.
Although, what really is the meaning of life ?
Does it have to make sense or have a greater purpose ?
Is there another version of me in a parallel Universe where I actually know how to drive ? |
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TedDBere
Veteran Member
Posts:1813
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| 02 Mar 2012 02:54 PM |
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I still think there is a place in SCCA Solo for a couple spec classes. The C5Z is just one of the likely candidates. Why? Because it's readily available, relatively inexpensive, fun to drive and low cost to maintain.
I also think there may be room for an S2000 and a Miata spec class too. There are probably others candidates.
It's not that the C5Z is totally uncompetitive, it's just that it's a great autox car that I believe others would gravitate to if they knew the class it played in wasn't going to change every year.
I've just noticed over the years that the people who get tired of having to switch cars every couple of years eventually bump up to a Mod or Prepared class so they don't have to put new money into the sport every year. Once they have the car prepped, that's basically it for 10 years.
Having a couple Stock, or Stock-like spec classes would those appeal to those of us who want to have fun without worrying about the competitiveness of our car every year.
The current SS class can remain the same, sans the C5Z, and all the ubber cars that some people want to put in the class could be taken out of SSP and put into SS. |
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cashmo
Advanced Member
Posts:876
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| 02 Mar 2012 06:16 PM |
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TedDBere wrote:It's not that the C5Z is totally uncompetitive
So much so that it was leading after the first day at Nats this year with others in the top 10. How can it be dead"?
I don't see any spec Stock classes coming any time soon.
Jeff
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dannykao
Basic Member
Posts:129
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| 02 Mar 2012 06:23 PM |
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C5Z is definitely the most fun autocross car I ever driven. In my useless opinion it's more fun than a fully prepped STU Evo, S2000, F125 shifter, Maryland FSAE car, CM Formula Ford, DM Caterham, ES Miata, CRX, ST Civic, RX8... Nothing really comes close in terms of fun factor - shifters being 2nd most fun.
I also think the top drivers are going to bring the best car to the class, or folks will bring the best cars for the top drivers to drive. SS is an awesome class right now and I get to run with all the cool cars and awesome drivers; removing C5Z from SS wouldn't make the class nearly as fun for me. It may make getting a trophy easier, but definitely not as fun. (As you can see I am pretty greedy in the "fun" factor) |
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