conevadr
Basic Member
Posts:193
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| 21 Aug 2012 04:42 PM |
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The purpose of this survey is to gather information about how local regions are using indexed classes with a focus on Road Tire indexed classes.
There are two goals for this survey...
1> Refresh and expand information on this topic that is now a couple of years old. The previous survey was done by gathering information directly from regional web sites. The direct access method will still be used to fill in the blanks and verify the accuracy of the survey responses.
2> Get a measure of what percentage of all regions are represented on SCCAFORUMS.
SURVEY START
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Question #2 - Size of region. Please select from the following...
a) small - typically less than 75 attendees at events.
b) medium - typically 75-125 attendees at events.
c) large - typically more than 125 attendees at events.
Question #3 - Regional classing philosophy. Please indicate a general regional philosophy in regards to the use of indexed classes...
a) SCCA national classes only - the region uses the nationally approved SCCA classes only, no more, no less.
b) modified SCCA structure - In addition to the SCCA classes, the region offers a few additional indexed classes. For example, Novice / Pro / Ladies / Road Tire.
c) heavily modified classing structure using mostly indexing - The region uses SCCA base classes, but more than half of the region competes in some sort of indexed class.
Question #4 - How long has the region had a class dedicated to some variety of the Road Tire competitor? (not including the ST classes, and not limited to just RT for stock cars)
a) The region has no classes dedicated to Road Tire competitors.
b) The region adopted a Road Tire class this season since there seems to be some National level support for Road Tire indexed classes.
c) The region has offered a Road Tire class for at least two seasons. If the region has offered a Road Tire class for many years, feel free to indicate that as well.
Question #5 - If a local stock class competitor prefers to compete using R-compound tires, do they...
a) Compete in the regular stock class against competition that may be using R-compound or Road Tires.
b) Compete in the regular stock class against R-compound competitors with the Road Tire competitors grouped in a separate indexed class.
c) Compete in the Pro class against other R-compound equipped competitors while the regular stock classes use Road Tires.
Question #6 - Does the region use a Road Tire multiplier (typically .975-.980) to allow Road Tire participants to compete directly against other classes, either for single event or full season comparison? (yes/no) If yes, what multiplier do you use?
Bonus optional question - If the SCCA adopts a 180 treadware rating to evaluate which tires are legal for Road Tire classification, what are the chances that your region will ignore this guideline and continue to use 140TW (assuming that is what is currently used)
SURVEY END
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Disclaimer: In no way does this survey directly influence any official rules making process or organization. This is just for my information. I am a Road Tire participant.
Thanks for providing this information. I'll recap and provide the results when complete.
George M
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conevadr
Basic Member
Posts:193
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| 21 Aug 2012 04:44 PM |
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To start things off, here's the responses for my local region...
SURVEY START
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Finger Lakes, Rochester NY, region #62
Question #2 - Size of region. Please select from the following...
b) medium - typically 75-125 attendees at events.
FLR is on the smaller side of medium with overall attendance down some in the last few years.
Question #3 - Regional classing philosophy. Please indicate a general regional philosophy in regards to the use of indexed classes...
c) heavily modified classing structure using mostly indexing - The region uses SCCA base classes, but more than half of the region competes in some sort of indexed class.
FLR now has almost all competors divided into indexed classes using the SCCA base classes and categories.
Question #4 - How long has the region had a class dedicated to some variety of the Road Tire competitor? (not including the ST classes, and not limited to just RT for stock cars)
c) The region has offered a Road Tire class for at least two seasons. If the region has offered a Road Tire classes for many years, feel free to indicate that as well.
FLR has offered a Road Tire class in one form or another since the mid-90's. (Thanks RR)
Question #5 - If a local stock class competitor prefers to compete using R-compound tires, do they...
c) Compete in the Pro class against other R-compound equipped competitors while the regular stock classes use Road Tires.
Stock class competitors on Road Tires are in the same indexed class. R-comps go to PRO.
Question #6 - Does the region use a Road Tire multiplier (typically .975-.980) to allow Road Tire participants to compete directly against other classes, either for single event or full season comparison? (yes/no) If yes, what multiplier do you use?
no
Bonus optional question - If the SCCA adopts a 180 treadware rating to evaluate which tires are legal for Road Tire classification, what are the chances that your region will ignore this guideline and continue to use 140TW (assuming that is what is currently used)
The chances are good that FLR will not adopt a 180TW rating for Road Tire.
SURVEY END
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George M
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NYR Solo
Basic Member
Posts:280
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| 21 Aug 2012 06:12 PM |
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Question #1 -NYR (023), downstate/metro NY/Long Island
Question #2 - small/medium events. ~75 an event this season.
Question #3 - C) Index classes. We scrapped full SCCA classes to do away with giving out attendance trophies in order to promote competition in 2009.
edit: Pro, Novice(season long), Ladies, Stock, RT-Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared, Builder(P/M/SM).
Question #4 - b) 1st year of offering a Road Tire class. Only for stock. The class is not split by drivetrain.
Question #5 - b) non r-comp shod stock cars will even compete in our Stock Index class instead of our Road Tire Stock index class in search of a trophy.
Question #6 - No. NTs don't use a multiplier for the provisional experimental classes. If a driver finally wants to step out of the pond, they already know that they are not using a multiplier beyon the current year's PAX.
Bonus optional question - My recomendation to my Solo Board has been to keep the 140TW rating thru 2013 since RT tires should theoretically last longer. if a set of ST tires last more than a season, 1-3 depending on how active a driver is, we should be moving drivers around with relatively short notice.
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hklvette
Basic Member
Posts:126
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| 21 Aug 2012 06:59 PM |
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1: Blue Ridge Region (103)
2: Small. We average about 70 per event.
3: B. In addition to the standard SCCA classes, we offer ladies, tire (for all 140TW+ shod cars exc. ST*), and novice
4: C since the 2010 season.
5: A. We have few members that regularly use R-comps, so we see no need to make a separate r-comp index.
6: no.
7: We would be unlikely to move from the 140TW, but in full disclosure nobody in our region regularly runs RS-3s or R1Rs, so few (if any) drivers would be affected either way. |
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sjfehr
Basic Member
Posts:364
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| 21 Aug 2012 09:59 PM |
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1. Old Dominion Region (Southeast Virginia)
2. a. small, ~50 per event
3. c. All paxed classes: Open, Novice, Ladies and Street Tire. We did hand out participation/individual class trophies last year, though nobody really cares about the class trophies as they're meaningless.
4. c. We've had a street tire class for many years now. RTR/RTF/RTA run together as a single class.
5. b. Stock cars on r-comps run against others on r-comps, ST* on street tires, etc. Although a large % of stock competitors on street tires run in ST* to get a better pax, even though they're otherwise completely stock.
6. No. We talked about using 0.985 and merging street tire into open class, but had some vocal opposition and dropped it.
7. Hasn't been discussed yet, but we'll most likely stick with the SCCA rules and bump drivers with <180 tires into the next higher appropriate class. |
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NJ Drive
New Member
Posts:93
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| 21 Aug 2012 10:32 PM |
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Question #1 - NNJR
Question #2 - b) medium - typically 75-125 attendees at events.
*We consistently get 100+ participants.
Question #3 - b) modified SCCA structure - For 2012, we deleted the Pro class and included RTF, RTA, RTR as well as a Road Tire Street Prepared/Street Modified index class.
Question #4 - b) The region adopted a Road Tire class this season since there seems to be some National level support for Road Tire indexed classes.
Question #5 - b) Compete in the regular stock class against R-compound competitors with the Road Tire competitors grouped in a separate indexed class.
Question #6 - Yes.
0.975 for RTF, RTA, RTR.
0.98 for Road Tire Street Prepared/Street Modified
Question #7 - Hasn't been discussed. |
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gary p
Veteran Member
Posts:2634
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| 21 Aug 2012 10:35 PM |
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1: Champaign County Sports Car Club (independent club in the boundries of Central Illinois Region)
2: a. Medium (~90 per event average)
3: a. All SCCA open classes except RTF/R/A with bumping to create competition, parallel novice and ladies classes with bumping to create competition.
4: d.(none of the above) Road Tire cars run in their regular open classes, but a trophy for the highest indexing Road Tire shod car (excluding ST classes) is also awarded. A competitor can conceivably win both his/her class and the FTDIS (Fastest Time of Day, Street Tire) Region has been doing FTDIS award for several years. Much discussion about expanding RT classes next year because of adoption in SCCA National events.
5: a
6: No additional indexing for RT
Bonus: FTDIS is currently for 140TW tires or higher, but previously was 200 +. If full RT concept is adopted, will likely mirror SCCA rule (180). |
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Mark Hirt
Veteran Member
Posts:1443
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| 21 Aug 2012 11:51 PM |
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- Chicago Region (7)
- Large
- B, all "Road Tire" classes are lumped into on big class but are not limited to just stock class. we also offer the same to the Ladies
- C since at least 1995.
- A
- No
- Hard to say, if a car "comes from the factory" with 140TW tires I'd find it hard to make them change.
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90_crx_si
New Member
Posts:89
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| 22 Aug 2012 02:19 AM |
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SURVEY START
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Question #1 - Red River Region, serving East TX, North LA, and Southern AR.
Question #2 - a) small - typically less than 75 attendees at events.
Question #3 - b) modified SCCA structure - We have novice, ladies, and a "tire" class nearly identical to the Road Tire class nationally.
Question #4 - c) If memory serves well, my region started the Tire class for the 2011 season and continued to run it this season.
Question #5 -a) Compete in the regular stock class against competition that may be using R-compound or Road Tires.
Question #6 - No multiplier.
Bonus optional question - If the SCCA adopts a 180 treadware rating to evaluate which tires are legal for Road Tire classification, what are the chances that your region will ignore this guideline and continue to use 140TW (assuming that is what is currently used)
Very likely we'll continue using the 140TW guideline we adopted before it became a national class unless we see a large spike in RT interest regionally. |
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moxnix
Advanced Member
Posts:707
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| 22 Aug 2012 08:46 AM |
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1. Washington DC - (42)
2. c) large - typically more than 125 attendees at events.
3. b) modified SCCA structure - In addition to the SCCA classes, the region offers one additional indexed class (Ladies).
4. b) The region adopted a Road Tire class this season since there seems to be some National level support for Road Tire indexed classes.
5. b) Compete in the regular stock class against R-compound competitors with the Road Tire competitors grouped in a separate indexed class.
6. No
7. Undecided at this point. |
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Tom Reynolds
Basic Member
Posts:225
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| 22 Aug 2012 10:36 AM |
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Question #1 - Identify your region.
Rio Grande - New Mexico
Question #2 - Size of region. Please select from the following...
Small - 40-65 attendees typically.
Question #3 - Regional classing philosophy. Please indicate a general regional philosophy in regards to the use of indexed classes...
modified SCCA structure - In addition to the SCCA classes, the region offers a few additional indexed classes. For example, Novice / Pro / Ladies / Road Tire.
We use three PAX classes, Pro, Combined (some call this sportsman), and Novice. We will be adding Ladies next year.
Question #4 - How long has the region had a class dedicated to some variety of the Road Tire competitor? (not including the ST classes, and not limited to just RT for stock cars)
The region has offered a street tire class or support in some form since 2006. Originally it was a PAX class but we decided it was better to populate the National classes and now give .975 if you declare 140tw or higher tires in any non-street tire class (ST*) and this did fill out classes so has been considered successful.
Question #5 - If a local stock class competitor prefers to compete using R-compound tires, do they...
Compete in the regular stock class against competition that may be using R-compound or Road Tires where the road tire users get .975 PAX help.
Question #6 - Does the region use a Road Tire multiplier (typically .975-.980) to allow Road Tire participants to compete directly against other classes, either for single event or full season comparison? (yes/no) If yes, what multiplier do you use?
Yes, .975 from Rick Ruth.
Bonus optional question - If the SCCA adopts a 180 treadware rating to evaluate which tires are legal for Road Tire classification, what are the chances that your region will ignore this guideline and continue to use 140TW (assuming that is what is currently used).
We have not decided. Initial discussion suggests we may likely stick with 140. The Hankook is popular here due to heat, the R1R is almost completely non-existent in our area.
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rosejm
Basic Member
Posts:182
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| 22 Aug 2012 10:52 AM |
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Question #1 - Indiana Northwest Region - INR (75) which covers the 4 NW counties in Indiana.
Question #2 - a) small - typically 30-50 entrants.
Question #3 - b) modified SCCA structure - add Novice and eXtra/Open (single class entrant/bump) index classes.
Question #4 - a) The region has no classes dedicated to Road Tire competitors at this time.
Question #5 - a) Compete in the regular stock class against competition that may be using R-compound or Road Tires.
Question #6 - No additional multiplier. Under-prepped cars compete with fully prepped examples.
Bonus optional question - Undecided, though likely we would follow the published rulebook. |
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madame_toussleau
New Member
Posts:31
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| 22 Aug 2012 12:02 PM |
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Question #1 - NER - New England Region (22)
Question #2 - c) Large - typically more than 125 attendees at events.
Question #3 - b) modified SCCA structure - In addition to the SCCA classes, the region offers a few additional indexed classes. For example, Novice / Pro / Ladies / Road Tire.
Question #4 - b) The region adopted a Road Tire class this season since there seems to be some National level support for Road Tire indexed classes.
Question #5 - If a local stock class competitor prefers to compete using R-compound tires, do they...
a) Compete in the regular stock class against competition that may be using R-compound or Road Tires.
or
c) Compete in the Pro class against other R-compound equipped competitors while the regular stock classes use Road Tires.
Some stock classes have enough competitors with r-comps, that they stay in the regular stock class. Some have no competitors and choose to run in Pro class for the extra competition, while others opted into the road tire class for extra competition when their stock class was small.
Question #6 - No multiplier - RT classing was a late SCCA announcement, therefore, the region adopted it on the late side and wanted to see where it went before talking about more rules.
Bonus optional question - Our region will probably discuss and then use the SCCA rules for TW in RT , unless there's strong objection.
-Barbara Seeger - Registrar
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motoring
Advanced Member
Posts:842
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| 22 Aug 2012 03:22 PM |
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1. Northwest Region
2. b) Medium to Large
3. c) Everything is grouped into indexed classes
4. c) we have offered an indexed road tire class for more than 10 years.
5. b) one indexed road tire class, allowing all scca prep levels (except street touring, duh...)
6. No and yes. No , we do not use a road tire index to compare road tire cars to other classes at our regular events. but, we run a ProSolo series and we use .975 for the road tire class for inclusion in the Challenge. We do a 32 car challenge with the top 16 pax automatically in, and 16 random draw to fill out the 32 driver field. |
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conevadr
Basic Member
Posts:193
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| 24 Aug 2012 05:07 PM |
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Thanks for the replies - I'm still collecting input if anyone would like to add.
George M |
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JimD
Basic Member
Posts:212
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| 24 Aug 2012 08:35 PM |
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1) Oregon Region
2) Medium
3) B
4) C (for many years)
5) A (they compete in regular stock class or in indexed Pro class)
6) No
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Impala SS AutoXer
Basic Member
Posts:223
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| 24 Aug 2012 08:53 PM |
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1. SFR
2. Large
3. B
4. C (in one form or another for at least a decade). Last few years we have had "T1" (for stock class cars on 140+) and "T2" (for SP/SM cars on 140+) as well as T1L and T2L
5. Depends. A couple of local classes are big enough that they support multiple trophies by themselves just amongst R-comp competitors (CS and DS). Rest, for the most part, run our "Index/PAX" class against other R-comp drivers. Most RT drivers run T1/L or T2/L.
6. No. Part of our issue has been that the multiplier, quite honestly, is a compromise. For a "typical" used numer of .975, it ends up being too soft for some cars and too hard for others (classic example = Super Stock Lotus and 996 GT3 vs Z06 and Viper...close competiton on R-comps, but I think most would agree they'd pick the Lotus or GT3 (and more likely Lotus) if restricted to 140+ or 180+).
Bonus : not sure, but would guess they'll goto 180.
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conevadr
Basic Member
Posts:193
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Whiskey11
New Member
Posts:82
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| 27 Aug 2012 11:54 AM |
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SURVEY START
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Question #1 - Identify your region.
Nebraska Region
Question #2 - Size of region. Please select from the following...
b) Medium - typically 75-125 attendees at events.
Question #3 - Regional classing philosophy. Please indicate a general regional philosophy in regards to the use of indexed classes...
b) Modified SCCA structure - In addition to the SCCA classes, the region offers a few additional indexed classes. For example, Novice / Pro / Ladies / Road Tire.
Question #4 - How long has the region had a class dedicated to some variety of the Road Tire competitor? (not including the ST classes, and not limited to just RT for stock cars)
c) The region has offered a Road Tire class for at least two seasons. I'm not sure how long it has been offered by 2011 was my first year and it was in use then.
Question #5 - If a local stock class competitor prefers to compete using R-compound tires, do they...
b) Compete in the regular stock class against R-compound competitors with the Road Tire competitors grouped in a separate indexed class.
Question #6 - Does the region use a Road Tire multiplier (typically .975-.980) to allow Road Tire participants to compete directly against other classes, either for single event or full season comparison? (yes/no) If yes, what multiplier do you use?
No.
Bonus optional question - If the SCCA adopts a 180 treadware rating to evaluate which tires are legal for Road Tire classification, what are the chances that your region will ignore this guideline and continue to use 140TW (assuming that is what is currently used)
No idea, I imagine that they will follow the SCCA ruling for the class due to our region's relationship with Nationals. If there is an exception it will be for our "Road Tire Prepared" PAXed class which is for all cars on street tires (currently defined as 140+ TW) that are not in stock or Street Touring. This class does not use any Road Tire multiplier either, just the standard PAX index for the class that each car is in.
I personally don't see the jump to 180+ TW for RT as a smart move since a lot of the tire development has already been done by competitors in ST under the 140+ TW rule. IMO they should be the same, regardless of where that number is.
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| Chris Jepsen
2009 Mustang GT
#11 STX |
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IntegraR0064
Basic Member
Posts:144
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| 27 Aug 2012 11:56 AM |
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NNJR and Philly decided to be consistent with each other this year, so I'll take Dave's response and modify it as needed for philly region
Question #1 - Philly
Question #2 - c) Large (usually 110-150 participants)
Question #3 - b) modified SCCA structure - For 2012, we run RTF, RTA, RTR as well as a Road Tire Street Prepared/Street Modified index class. Also we offer a novice indexed class and a ladies indexed class.
Question #4 - c) We started last year (2011) with a road tire stock class and a road tire street prepared/modified class. This year the stock class was split into RTR, RTA, and RTF to mesh with national rules while the street prepared/modified class was kept the same.
Question #5 - b) Compete in the regular stock class against R-compound competitors with the Road Tire competitors grouped in a separate indexed class.
Question #6 - Yes.
0.975 for RTF, RTA, RTR.
0.98 for Road Tire Street Prepared/Street Modified
Question #7 - Hasn't really been discussed, my assumption is we'll do 180 with maybe some exceptions on a case by case basis. |
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