fat cat
Trying to understand STO....
Last Post 05 Feb 2010 08:57 AM by pkeane. 15 Replies.
AddThis - Bookmarking and Sharing Button Printer Friendly
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
SundialRacingSouthUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Posts:


--
27 Jan 2010 07:30 PM

    Check out the link:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pont...5ad6aa0a52

    1) How does anybody think that they can take a T1 car and turn it into anything close to this?

    2) People cried bloody murder when when a 430 C showed up at the Runoffs, what's going to happen when this shows up?

    3) How can anybody say that STO is "not as expensive as you think"?

    4) Way too much car for amateur racers, someone is going to get killed.

    5) IMHO STO is SCCA Pro Racing's scheme to add residual value to WC cars. WC teams can run the car and now they have someone to pawn it off on when it times out.

    6) How much money was spent developing this car? Wind tunnel? Shaker rig? How can a weekend racer compete with this?

    7) At this cost why not go run WC or Grand-Am?


    David PintaricUser is Offline
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1039


    --
    27 Jan 2010 08:13 PM

    Bret,

    I may be an idiot for entering this discussion, but tha hasn't stopped me in the past.

    I am not sure this car is legal for SCCA STO the way it sits right now (or as advertised). BTW, the ad mention SPO, which isn't STO and is not a Run Offs class. I don't know it that is a mistake on classing or a mistake in thinking SPO is a Run Offs class.

    I never said STO will be "not that expensive."

    The reason not to go "pro racing?" I don't think I am good enough right now, plus the scheduling just doesn't work for me and my business. Travel would just be brutal.

    AnubisUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    27 Jan 2010 10:22 PM

    Not sure why you say someone is going to get killed in this car, Scarello ran a 28.7 with it and even if there are a couple of seconds left in the car that's not close to the fastest amateur lap around Road Atlanta. Think that title goes to Jean Luc Liverato who in 2008 while running a Stohr DSR qualified at 19.865 for the March national while Ken Tyrell ran a 18.2 in the race (JLR DNF'd due to a bonehead and ran a 18.4).. this is in a car less pricey (not sure by how much but not all that much) then what the Goat is goin for. Also a good CSR will run very low 20's too.

    paulgauzensUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    27 Jan 2010 11:10 PM
    This car is in STO once you get a logbook for it - and could be an SPO car, too.

    It's no secret STO is for WCGT cars - GCR is clear on that point...

    Vehicles meeting one of the following criterion may compete in the Super Touring category;

    Cars built specifically under these ST rules

    1990 and newer World Challenge cars, using the vehicle’s most recent VTS sheet, (GT cars in STO and Touring cars in STU.)

    The $155K price is in line with other STO cars bought from a WC stable (when adjusted for age). It ran in the '30's at Road ATL in '08 (not a dangerous speed for a GT car). In '09 they ran the first 3 races and then no more...and now the car is entered in Joey's name for the '10 season as an annual entry. So I'm a bit fuzzy what the plan is for the A Wheels Team...

    On comparable classes, I don't think anyone expects drivers to "convert" their T1 cars into competitive STO entries - but the GCR allows you to do that if money is no object. IMHO it seems cheaper to buy vs build - but nobody said STO was a budget-minded class.

    I'm not sure why it's too much car for Club Racing - ever seen a really good GT-1 build? [;)]

    David PintaricUser is Offline
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1039


    --
    27 Jan 2010 11:20 PM
    Geez, it ran 28.7 at Road Atlanta? Ingle ran a 30.7 in T1 trim less 150 lbs. I know WCTG uses Toyo tires, but still...
    SundialRacingSouthUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    28 Jan 2010 05:17 AM
    Anubis wrote:

    Not sure why you say someone is going to get killed in this car,

    I guess the STO grid at Sebring reminded me of a NASA runwhatubrung class, and the few times I've run with NASA I fear for my life.... I'm prolly off base on someone getting kilt(Pittsburgh slang)....

    SundialRacingSouthUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    28 Jan 2010 05:24 AM
    paulgauzens wrote:

    I'm not sure why it's too much car for Club Racing - ever seen a really good GT-1 build? [;)]

    Paul,

    I guess that's what I'm getting at, why start another high dollar class and possibly kill a moderate dollar class, especially in these economic times. I think the one thing all of us agree on is that STO will kill T1.

    I read an interesting interview from one of the Harley Davidson C level guys, HD's opinion is that even when the economy rebounds their business won't. Because of permanent scar left by the recession, people will find less expensive ways to buy enjoyment.........

    I watch the kart races that BeaveRun has every weekend and wonder are they having any less fun than me? Prolly where I will end up when my son is old enough to race.

    4reRacerUser is Offline
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:599


    --
    28 Jan 2010 07:40 AM

    As Paul said STO was introduced to give OLD world challenge cars a place to "retire" to. My car is a perfect example....it ran in 2005 and 2006. The class is a work in progress, and just like all the other classes, the comp board will have to adjust the cars as the entry level increases and various forms of STO show up.

    Right now "OLD" STO cars are not that much faster then CURRENT T1 cars. Remember, these WC cars were state of the art when they ran, but it is just too expensive to keep up with the changes allowed to the car if you are only going club racing. My car was dynoe'd 417RWHP restircted to current WC specs (the engine now has 40 race weekends on it, without being touched, and I'm guessing its way down below that). Chris' T1 car(w/the new brake package) runs more RWHP then that, and when he took the weight out of the car at Road Atlanta, I was only about .5 sec/lap quicker. The same w/ Daves viper at Sebring.

    The top 5 cars at Sebring were all within 1.4 seconds of each other. The problem will be when a pro driver in a current WC car shows up at a club event, like the vipers at Road America last year. They blew the field away.

    This should be an interesting year for STO, but I'm pretty sure at the end of it there will be some significant rule changes for this class.

    CSIPerformanceUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:19


    --
    28 Jan 2010 09:29 AM
    4reRacer wrote:
    <

    The top 5 cars at Sebring were all within 1.4 seconds of each other. The problem will be when a pro driver in a current WC car shows up at a club event, like the vipers at Road America last year. They blew the field away.

    Actually the Vipers that showed up really weren't pushing it too much, IMHO. At the June Sprints Woodhouse was running 2.20.xx and the World Challange cars run 2.15.xx on Toyo's. Granted that's with Pro drivers but I would think that the Pro driver/Hoosier tires should even things out. So the gap between that and a STO prepped T1 car is substantial to say the least. Especially at Road America where an STO car easily be able to break into the mid to high teens. I've also thought that once someone show's up in a WC built car the game is over for everyone else. Hey doesn't that sound like T1 last year? [;)]

    Robert FinlaysonUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:28


    --
    28 Jan 2010 10:27 AM

    Actually, the World Challenge track record is 2:16.701 held by Tommy Archer in a Dodge Viper. That was set in 2006 and was run on Toyo's. At the Sprints, Woodhouse and Courtney were running on older Toyo's and probably were pushing the cars pretty hard to get those times on those tires. Certainly they could go much faster had they chose to run on Hoosier A tires like the rest of the field. I know for sure they outhandled my car down the straights. That is my concern with STO, what happens when someone shows up with a full blown World Challenge car. I believe the comp board is aware of this and will be working to even the field in the future.

    Robert Finlayson

    STO #59

    A RacerUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    28 Jan 2010 03:54 PM
    paulgauzens wrote:
    and now the car is entered in Joey's name for the '10 season as an annual entry. So I'm a bit fuzzy what the plan is for the A Wheels Team...

    On comparable classes, I don't think anyone expects drivers to "convert" their T1 cars into competitive STO entries - but the GCR allows you to do that if money is no object. IMHO it seems cheaper to buy vs build - but nobody said STO was a budget-minded class.

    The annual entry list page over on World Challenge is completely inaccurate. It has not been updated to reflect who is actually competing in 2010. Several of the names listed have left the series and are racing elsewhere or not all. BimmerWorld, Gunter Schaldach, Chip Herr, Dan Pastorini, Whelen, Curran, and many more.

    L98TerrorUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    03 Feb 2010 08:51 AM
    Anubis wrote:

    Not sure why you say someone is going to get killed in this car, Scarello ran a 28.7 with it and even if there are a couple of seconds left in the car that's not close to the fastest amateur lap around Road Atlanta. Think that title goes to Jean Luc Liverato who in 2008 while running a Stohr DSR qualified at 19.865 for the March national while Ken Tyrell ran a 18.2 in the race (JLR DNF'd due to a bonehead and ran a 18.4).. this is in a car less pricey (not sure by how much but not all that much) then what the Goat is goin for. Also a good CSR will run very low 20's too.

    I thought the goal was for STO cars to be about 450 RWHP??? This car is over 600 probally 550 RWHP

    David PintaricUser is Offline
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1039


    --
    04 Feb 2010 06:51 AM
    L98Terror wrote:
    Anubis wrote:

    Not sure why you say someone is going to get killed in this car, Scarello ran a 28.7 with it and even if there are a couple of seconds left in the car that's not close to the fastest amateur lap around Road Atlanta. Think that title goes to Jean Luc Liverato who in 2008 while running a Stohr DSR qualified at 19.865 for the March national while Ken Tyrell ran a 18.2 in the race (JLR DNF'd due to a bonehead and ran a 18.4).. this is in a car less pricey (not sure by how much but not all that much) then what the Goat is goin for. Also a good CSR will run very low 20's too.

    I thought the goal was for STO cars to be about 450 RWHP??? This car is over 600 probally 550 RWHP

    Ken,

    The 450 HP target went away quite some time ago, heck a LS7 is in the class with a 60mm restrictor plate. I don't think that will keep those motors when modified under 575!

    L98TerrorUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    04 Feb 2010 07:03 AM
    David Pintaric wrote:
    L98Terror wrote:
    Anubis wrote:

    Not sure why you say someone is going to get killed in this car, Scarello ran a 28.7 with it and even if there are a couple of seconds left in the car that's not close to the fastest amateur lap around Road Atlanta. Think that title goes to Jean Luc Liverato who in 2008 while running a Stohr DSR qualified at 19.865 for the March national while Ken Tyrell ran a 18.2 in the race (JLR DNF'd due to a bonehead and ran a 18.4).. this is in a car less pricey (not sure by how much but not all that much) then what the Goat is goin for. Also a good CSR will run very low 20's too.

    I thought the goal was for STO cars to be about 450 RWHP??? This car is over 600 probally 550 RWHP

    Are these the most current rules? http://cms.scca.com/documents/Club%...R/STCS.pdf

    Ken,

    The 450 HP target went away quite some time ago, heck a LS7 is in the class with a 60mm restrictor plate. I don't think that will keep those motors when modified under 575!

    paulgauzensUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    04 Feb 2010 12:48 PM

    The most current rules are at: 2010 GCR

    No change to the 450HP target for WCGT -but- the rule set doesn't guarantee competitiveness of any car.

    pkeaneUser is Offline
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:


    --
    05 Feb 2010 08:57 AM
    The 450 HP satement is left over from the old WC rules. We are putting a commettee together to help find where the class will go.
    You are not authorized to post a reply.


    Woodhouse Motorsports
    SPS 88x31 Button Race-Technology
    CarboTech 88x31 Button HoosierTire88x31
    Vorshlag 88x31 Button UltraRev 88x31
    Traqmate 88x31 Button RacerPartsWholesale 88X31
    Hyperfuels 88x31 Button Apex Detail Button
    Sunoco 88x31 Button Winding Road 88X31
    saferacer Rugged Radio 88
    fat cat


    Advertise on SCCAForums.com and reach thousands of visitors per day!

    SafeRacer FREE SHIPPING over $99

    Shop for Pirelli tires at Tire Rack. blank



    Sunoco Bottom 468x60 Banner