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Last Post 19 Dec 2012 02:07 AM by  thedrumm
Solo 2013
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porschegirl59
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24 Oct 2012 09:18 AM

    Alright everybody, as most of you know I will be taking over as Solo Chair next year, and I'm looking for my pit crew. I have talked to some of you about next year, but I'm still missing a few Cheifs.

    Solo Chair – Stefanie Stribling

    Chief of Registration – Tracy McLean

    Chief of Timing and Scoring – Colin Faucett

    Chief of Tech – Bob Miller

    Chief of “daBus” – Michael LeVeque

    Chief of Course – Kevin Kent

    Novice Coordinators – Will Lahee and Ben Newburn

    Chief of Waivers – Dave Havlik

    Chief of Workers – Ted Drummond

    Chief of Sound – Chris Brake

    Chief of Safety – Lee Miller

    If you would like to be a Chief next year please contact me (indysccasolo@yahoo.com). Remember, you don't have to be at EVERY event as a Chief you just have to make sure that you find someone to cover your job if you can't attend it.

    I hope to see a lot of you at the planning meeting on November 15, 6:30pm at the Dusterberg's (remember to RSVP).

    -Stefanie

    dbrier
    Basic Member
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    Posts:255


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    25 Oct 2012 09:18 AM
    Can I come to the planning meeting even if I'm not a chief anymore?
    porschegirl59
    New Member
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    Posts:22


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    25 Oct 2012 08:30 PM
    The planning meeting is open to anyone. I encourage everyone to come and be involved.
    porschegirl59
    New Member
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    Posts:22


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    08 Nov 2012 10:59 AM
    Only one more week til the planning meeting. If you haven't RSVP'd and are planning on coming, email me. (indysccasolo@yahoo.com)

    Remember, anyone is welcome to come!
    Eclipse2Lancer
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:918


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    28 Nov 2012 08:59 AM
    Cliff's notes for those of us unable to attend the meeting?
    The Nebulizer
    Veteran Member
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    Posts:1817


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    28 Nov 2012 10:56 AM
    ricky bobby wrote:
    Cliff's notes for those of us unable to attend the meeting?

    Unfortunately, Cliff couldn't make it. I could give my summary, but I missed the second half and I have slept since the meeting happened - wasn't it like 2 weeks ago? I remember something about event scheduling and another Peru NT this year. Dick flipped his Focus and bought a wagon. Dale still has his Mazdaspeed sign. Something about a new site in Cincinnati area possibly taking the autocross world by storm. Chris broke his VW towing it. No luck with new sites. I ate some chicken nuggets. Looks like Speeddrome will still count as real events :( Maybe a 2nd format for some NTs like Blytheville2. That's all I got.

    porschegirl59
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:22


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    28 Nov 2012 06:04 PM
    That's a decent summary. Working on getting the schedule done. Waiting on Nationals for the most part. We may be hosting a Tour event in August like last year unless things work out with a site in OH, then we may host an event in June instead. Have some things to do to the bus yet, Chris and Michael are on it. Chiefs positions are filled for next year. Trophies will be like this past year again with the stickers/magnets and something nicer at the end for members. Um, I think that's it...
    thedrumm
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    Posts:297


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    29 Nov 2012 03:35 AM
    The Nebulizer wrote:
    ricky bobby wrote:
    Cliff's notes for those of us unable to attend the meeting?

    ... Looks like Speeddrome will still count as real events ...

    Why would the Spreedrome events not have counted as real events? Just because they are not carbon copies of Peru doesn't mean they are not real events. Can't we have different kinds of events? Connersville still counts right?

    Clemens
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:308


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    29 Nov 2012 08:17 AM
    thedrumm wrote:

    Why would the Spreedrome events not have counted as real events? Just because they are not carbon copies of Peru doesn't mean they are not real events. Can't we have different kinds of events? Connersville still counts right?

    Ted,

    The first Speedrome event had 76 entries, the second one 56 entries, hardly a popular event. It looks like a good size group of people chooses to not run at the Speedrome. This includes several of what I call our "national competitors", the people who travel to National Tours and Nationals and represent the Indy Region name outside of our region, often fairly successfully.

    If you look at the year-end Tovey Cup points, many of our national competitors are way down the list because they did not run enough events, despite the fact that we allow for one dropped event. This is a result of their choice to not run certain events, but it is also a result of the club leadership's choice through the types of events that get scheduled. I agree that not every event needs to be a carbon copy of a Grissom event. There are many ways to put on good autocross events, but the Speedrome events do not meet my standard of a good event, and judging by the number of entries for the second event there this year, I am not the only one.

    The Connersville event is still on the current tentative schedule, although the future of the place is not known. And yes, it is still parts of the points series, but it is also an event that is not attended by some people, which, again, adds to the number of people that cannot end up at the top of the final Tovey Cup standings.

    One question is if the Tovey Cup should be decided by attendance or by performance? Another question is what the objective of the Indy Region Solo program is. In my opinion, part of the objective should be to foster cometition and to produce more drivers that want to also run divisional and national level events and be competitive there. The Speedrome events do not help with this aspect.

    Clemens

    The Nebulizer
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1817


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    29 Nov 2012 01:52 PM
    Clemens wrote:
    thedrumm wrote:

    Why would the Spreedrome events not have counted as real events? Just because they are not carbon copies of Peru doesn't mean they are not real events. Can't we have different kinds of events? Connersville still counts right?

    Ted,

    The first Speedrome event had 76 entries, the second one 56 entries, hardly a popular event. It looks like a good size group of people chooses to not run at the Speedrome. This includes several of what I call our "national competitors", the people who travel to National Tours and Nationals and represent the Indy Region name outside of our region, often fairly successfully.

    If you look at the year-end Tovey Cup points, many of our national competitors are way down the list because they did not run enough events, despite the fact that we allow for one dropped event. This is a result of their choice to not run certain events, but it is also a result of the club leadership's choice through the types of events that get scheduled. I agree that not every event needs to be a carbon copy of a Grissom event. There are many ways to put on good autocross events, but the Speedrome events do not meet my standard of a good event, and judging by the number of entries for the second event there this year, I am not the only one.

    The Connersville event is still on the current tentative schedule, although the future of the place is not known. And yes, it is still parts of the points series, but it is also an event that is not attended by some people, which, again, adds to the number of people that cannot end up at the top of the final Tovey Cup standings.

    One question is if the Tovey Cup should be decided by attendance or by performance? Another question is what the objective of the Indy Region Solo program is. In my opinion, part of the objective should be to foster cometition and to produce more drivers that want to also run divisional and national level events and be competitive there. The Speedrome events do not help with this aspect.

    Clemens

    I was just being a smartass. I never expected those events not to count and to be honest I never voiced any desire for it not to count and the subject didn't come up other than it was listed on the proposed schedule and there was a brief discussion about it. My comment should have had about as much weight as my comment about eating chicken nuggets. I may even give Speeddrome a shot this year.

    I go into the season now with the idea that some events are not going to be my cup of tea and I can find other events in adjacent regions to do when I am available. I don't have any negative feelings for the leadership for wanting these events and can see the reason behind it. Though, I personally would welcome more carbon copy Peru type events and that is why leading up to Nationals last year that was the only site aside from Lincoln that I had run the entire year. Now if Tovey cup were a possibility for me, I might be more serious about this as Clemens is. If it came up, I would probably support a change to Tovey to allow a little more event dropping to reduce the heavy participation factor, but I have no issue with how it is done now. In some ways keeping the heavy participation factor has done a nice job of keeping it a fresh battle each year. We don't want Clemens to win every year do we?

    Long story short - don't take me too seriously. I can be a smart-ass sometimes.

    Racerlinn
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:271


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    29 Nov 2012 02:16 PM
    As one of the guys that was chartered to develop the Tovey Cup way back when, the Cup's focus was that this would be a REGIONAL Solo championship trophy. The rules were developed to reward folks running Indy Region events. It's a balance on both performance as well as commitment to the Indy solo program. If the SRS BZNS national guys choose to not run certain regional events, that is their loss.

    Should the region's Michael Buchanan Fairbanks Memorial Competitor of the Year Award be made easier to win as well? I think Ted's been doing a great job kicking everybodies butt in that the last few years.
    porschegirl59
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:22


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    29 Nov 2012 05:04 PM
    If anyone has leads on any other facilities to use as event sites, feel free to send me contact information for them and I will look into them. As of now we will use the contacts and relationships we have built.
    Eclipse2Lancer
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:918


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    30 Nov 2012 09:37 AM
    Not sure what to make of the "Tovey cup is a participation trophy" talk. It's not as easy to win as just showing up.
    I personally don't think the formula for it needs changed at all. 1) attend region events and support local program, 2) do really well at those events.

    Not all sites are perfect flat expanses of asphalt or concrete.
    Clemens
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:308


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    30 Nov 2012 12:16 PM
    ricky bobby wrote:
    Not sure what to make of the "Tovey cup is a participation trophy" talk. It's not as easy to win as just showing up.
    I personally don't think the formula for it needs changed at all. 1) attend region events and support local program, 2) do really well at those events.

    Not all sites are perfect flat expanses of asphalt or concrete.

    Nobody said that that just showing up guarantees a Tovey Cup win. Clearly, just showing up is not enough, but it is a very important aspect. I'd say that there are four contributors to winning the Tovey Cup:

    1. Attendance: With only one dropped event allowed, the minimum number of events on must attend to win is the total number of points events minus one. However, not being able to drop an event is a definite penalty. For example, a rain event always distorts the results for a number of reasons. If we have a rain event and a driver ends up on the wrong end of the resulting distribution, that driver can forget winning the Tovey Cup if he does not have an event to drop. And, even the most consistent driver can have good events and bad events based on Contributor #4, where it can be beneficial if one can drop an event.

    2. Driving skills: If you want to win the Tovey Cup, you obviously need to know how to drive and perform well. Consistently. Every time. We are still talking about competition where the quickest (PAX-adjusted) time wins.

    3. Car choice and preparation: The larger the group of competitors, the tighter the competition, and the more important it is to have the perfrect "package", where the package consists of the car and the driver. In a very competitive environment, just being a good driver, or even excellent driver, is not good enough anymore, since it is very likely that others with very similar driving skills show up. Good driving needs to be supplemented by a car with the potential to win (not every model has the same potential), and that car needs to be prepared accordingly.

    4. PAX: The Tovey Cup is based on the PAX system. Face it, PAX-based competition is NEVER fair. It is impossible to come up with one set of numbers that accommodates all factors affecting the results, such as car (we have about 40 classes with even more types of cars, various types of tires on these cars), surface (grippiness, dust, sand, asphalt/concrete), course design (slow vs. fast, short vs. long), temperature (hot vs. warm vs. cold) and more. Some cars do better in PAX-based competition on slow and slippery courses, others do better on fast and grippy courses with other combinations possible. Even if the PAX were perfect for all car/prep-level/tire/course combinations, there are other variables that change throughout a day of competition, such as temperature (cold or warm in the morning and warm or hot in the afternoon, affecting tire traction) and course cleanliness (potentially dusty in the morning, potentially rubbered in in the afternoon). How the PAX variable affects the results has, to some extent, to do with car choice, but also with luck (for example, which heat a driver runs).

    I did look at some numbers. The 2012 Tovey Cup results show 352 names. A large number of those (almost everybody with a finishing position higher than 130) ran only one event. Asking why people only show up for one event is an important and always interesting question, but a major reason in our case is that we had three events that attracted out-of-region competitors by design (the #4 Connersville event, the #5 divisional event and the #6 Fort Wayne event, and you can probably also throw the #3 Terre Haute event into this category). Out of all competitors, 10 had perfect attendance (7 points events), and 14 attended six events. Therefore, 24 drivers had the chance of winning the Tovey Cup based on their attendance, an absolute prerequisite. After accounting for the other three aspects (mostly driving skills and car/prep), there was one guy that ended up with the most points, Will Lahee, our 2012 Tovey Cup Winner. Congratulations, Will!

    Clemens

    Racerlinn
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:271


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    30 Nov 2012 12:43 PM
    Drop two events and Ricky "Captain Sweety" Bobby would have still kicked everyones butts. Just sayin...
    Clemens
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:308


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    30 Nov 2012 01:55 PM

    That's probably because he was the best driver this year. Just sayin...

    Please note that everything I wrote were general statements that apply to the Tovey Cup in general and not only to this year's competition, except for the statistics.

    Clemens

    Eclipse2Lancer
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:918


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    30 Nov 2012 07:42 PM
    Clemens wrote:
    ricky bobby wrote:
    Not sure what to make of the "Tovey cup is a participation trophy" talk. It's not as easy to win as just showing up.
    I personally don't think the formula for it needs changed at all. 1) attend region events and support local program, 2) do really well at those events.

    Not all sites are perfect flat expanses of asphalt or concrete.

    Nobody said that that just showing up guarantees a Tovey Cup win. Clearly, just showing up is not enough, but it is a very important aspect. I'd say that there are four contributors to winning the Tovey Cup:

    1. Attendance: With only one dropped event allowed, the minimum number of events on must attend to win is the total number of points events minus one. However, not being able to drop an event is a definite penalty. For example, a rain event always distorts the results for a number of reasons. If we have a rain event and a driver ends up on the wrong end of the resulting distribution, that driver can forget winning the Tovey Cup if he does not have an event to drop. And, even the most consistent driver can have good events and bad events based on Contributor #4, where it can be beneficial if one can drop an event.

    2. Driving skills: If you want to win the Tovey Cup, you obviously need to know how to drive and perform well. Consistently. Every time. We are still talking about competition where the quickest (PAX-adjusted) time wins.

    3. Car choice and preparation: The larger the group of competitors, the tighter the competition, and the more important it is to have the perfrect "package", where the package consists of the car and the driver. In a very competitive environment, just being a good driver, or even excellent driver, is not good enough anymore, since it is very likely that others with very similar driving skills show up. Good driving needs to be supplemented by a car with the potential to win (not every model has the same potential), and that car needs to be prepared accordingly.

    4. PAX: The Tovey Cup is based on the PAX system. Face it, PAX-based competition is NEVER fair. It is impossible to come up with one set of numbers that accommodates all factors affecting the results, such as car (we have about 40 classes with even more types of cars, various types of tires on these cars), surface (grippiness, dust, sand, asphalt/concrete), course design (slow vs. fast, short vs. long), temperature (hot vs. warm vs. cold) and more. Some cars do better in PAX-based competition on slow and slippery courses, others do better on fast and grippy courses with other combinations possible. Even if the PAX were perfect for all car/prep-level/tire/course combinations, there are other variables that change throughout a day of competition, such as temperature (cold or warm in the morning and warm or hot in the afternoon, affecting tire traction) and course cleanliness (potentially dusty in the morning, potentially rubbered in in the afternoon). How the PAX variable affects the results has, to some extent, to do with car choice, but also with luck (for example, which heat a driver runs).

    I did look at some numbers. The 2012 Tovey Cup results show 352 names. A large number of those (almost everybody with a finishing position higher than 130) ran only one event. Asking why people only show up for one event is an important and always interesting question, but a major reason in our case is that we had three events that attracted out-of-region competitors by design (the #4 Connersville event, the #5 divisional event and the #6 Fort Wayne event, and you can probably also throw the #3 Terre Haute event into this category). Out of all competitors, 10 had perfect attendance (7 points events), and 14 attended six events. Therefore, 24 drivers had the chance of winning the Tovey Cup based on their attendance, an absolute prerequisite. After accounting for the other three aspects (mostly driving skills and car/prep), there was one guy that ended up with the most points, Will Lahee, our 2012 Tovey Cup Winner. Congratulations, Will!

    Clemens

    Agree with all that. Thanks Clemens!

    mtownneon
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:666


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    01 Dec 2012 05:27 PM
    Yeah, that's it, criticize, call out to others to do something, get Raleigh to do it, it's the easy way out. Look, for the last 3 years now I've been chasing every lead trying to secure sites in Indy. It's incredibly difficult. Yet the one's that have been willing to host us, the same folks turn their noses up and declare the sites are unworthy. Guess what, the sites we have is what we have. Sorry they aren't up to your lofty standards. Make a decision: either support the Region or don't. Step up and show the rest of us how it's done, you go out and secure that great site in Indy, quit looking to others to do it! (Clemens, I recognize you brought Connersville and am greatly appreiciate that) But I'm REALLY tired of hearing the complaints and then how someone else should be doing something about it. This is a CLUB which you are MEMBERS of. Want to see something change, roll up your damn sleeves and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

    The Region isn't turning down any site invitations that we can make work. Speedrome works, we run at Speedrome.
    porschegirl59
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:22


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    04 Dec 2012 08:54 PM
    I am currently looking for a Chief of Tech. If you are willing to do this or know someone who might want to shoot me and email.

    indysccasolo@yahoo.com

    -Stefanie
    Bobzilla
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1120


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    05 Dec 2012 09:41 AM
    ricky bobby wrote:
    Not sure what to make of the "Tovey cup is a participation trophy" talk. It's not as easy to win as just showing up.
    I personally don't think the formula for it needs changed at all. 1) attend region events and support local program, 2) do really well at those events.

    Not all sites are perfect flat expanses of asphalt or concrete.

    agreed. I have "shown up" for the last 5 years (ok, last year was a wash for me) and I don't think I've even cracked the top 10. I WANT MY FREE TOVEY CUP!

    Oh... and congrats Willseph

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