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Last Post 04 Mar 2013 10:14 PM by  GlennAustin
CStock, BSP, and/or different car?
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Rex247
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23 Feb 2013 03:35 PM

    Hi SCCAForum members,

    I'm a beginner looking to start solo racing. I own a 2008 Nissan 350Z Enthusiast Coupe with 6 speed transmission, which I bought in June completely stock. Since I got a raise at work, I figured I could start spending money on my car to get into racing or to buy a different car for the same purpose. I really don't know where to start, should I start out in C stock and just focus on learning to drive and tires. Should I start in BSP because I can gradually mod my car? Or should I be looking into a car other than the Nissan 350z that can specialize in solo racing? stock, SP or other class? Thank you for your help.

    -Rex

    mitchman
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    23 Feb 2013 04:01 PM
    I'd recommend C-Stock. There's a driver in our region that drives a 350Z and does very well with it. I would buy an extra set of rims and better tires and then spend a few seasons autocrossing the car. Then make a decision as to which direction you want to go. (just my $0.02)
    cmt52663
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    23 Feb 2013 05:37 PM
    +1

    The mantra is seat time. Find an Evo school, and link up with the motorsports community in your area.

    I've been competing on an amateur basis off and on for a very long time - starting in '77 - on four wheels and on two. I'm a good driver, and a good rider, and I was both when I started with New England Region in 2001.

    Like everyone else that can say that, I expected to be fast on an autocross course in my first year - not 6 seconds off the pace on a 60 second course. Like most folks that encounter that initial shock, I expected to close the gap in the 10 events that year.

    Like most folks, I didn't.

    Eddie Savage (our Novice Chair at the time) took me under his wing, and helped a great deal. In my second year I accepted that I could not buy those six seconds, and that the learning curve for autocross is slow for most folks. Our training is in 60 second intervals, and even after two years I had less than two hours of total seat time in competition.

    Nine years later, having not given up, I have reached the point where the equipment is starting to matter. The tires can make up a second in some cases, the overall setup can make up a second. A few pounds of air one way or the other can shave tenths.

    But only the driver can close that big gap that we all start out with.

    I would even suggest to you that you consider running TW 140 rubber your first year or two. Really good UHP tires properly sized for that car will be a great treat, and that Z is a much better car that I started with.

    For most folks the car is better than the driver for quite a while - certainly that has been true for me.

    Most importantly I have had TONS of fun along the way, and joined a great community, and learned a great deal in the process.

    I wish you all the exhilaration and frustration which is the essence of what turns out to be a very demanding discipline. Be patient, and don't quit.

    Kind regards,

    Charlie
    mlane350z
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    23 Feb 2013 06:18 PM
    How much do you want to spend?
    Rex247
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    23 Feb 2013 07:11 PM
    mlane350z wrote:
    How much do you want to spend?

    For car parts and in C-Stock, it depends how many times a year I need to buy new race tires. I'm from the NY region and plan to go to as many events as I can this year. If BSP, I would put aside the money that was going into a more expensive car, say 10k a year as a ballpark for mods and tires. For a different car, I'll give you an idea. I bought my 08' HR for $19k with 45k miles. I would be looking to either trade it in towards something newer, or if I got something cheaper and older, than I could buy more parts and tires. If any of this sounds strange, let me know as I am new at this.

    mlane350z
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    23 Feb 2013 07:37 PM
    10k won't get it done for BSP for a little while if you want to be competitive. I would stick with STR or CS for now. STR lets you get about 80% of the way to BSP, plus drops the tire bill considerable.
    mitchman
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    24 Feb 2013 02:04 AM
    Don't run C-stock, run RTR with a C-stock index. That way you won't have to buy race tires. Instead you can run long lasting (and cheaper) street tires.
    Rex247
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    24 Feb 2013 12:02 PM

    I've now learned that stock classes end where road tires classes begin at TW 140. How many races would a TW 200 tire last me compared to a TW100 tire?

    fastmike
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    24 Feb 2013 12:32 PM
    Run RTR/CS.
    Do not run the Toyo R1R on your car if you are concerned about treadwear/tirelife.
    The bfg rival might be z great choice for you.
    They are just being released now. Not sure about sizing but I think you could run the 245-18 at all 4 corners?
    Rex247
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    24 Feb 2013 01:04 PM
    I'm still doing all my research but I thought I read Z drivers have been using large sizes on stock rims/RPF1/etc. Sizes like 285/30/18 just in the front. 295 with modification, 305 or 315 in the back. Not stock tire sizes like 225/45 and 245/45. They were basically running the biggest tire that can fit on stock rim sizes. My stock rims are 18x8 front and 18x8.5 rear and I'm looking into a lightweight alternative now.
    fastmike
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    24 Feb 2013 01:15 PM
    The rivals will be plenty for your car if you want to RTR.. My CS car has 18x8 rims and would not hesitate to run that size at any national event. In fact, I run 225's on 18x8s in the wet-
    talon95
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    24 Feb 2013 01:20 PM
    Rex247 wrote:
    I'm still doing all my research but I thought I read Z drivers have been using large sizes on stock rims/RPF1/etc. Sizes like 285/30/18 just in the front. 295 with modification, 305 or 315 in the back. Not stock tire sizes like 225/45 and 245/45. They were basically running the biggest tire that can fit on stock rim sizes. My stock rims are 18x8 front and 18x8.5 rear and I'm looking into a lightweight alternative now.

    They only do that with Hoosiers. Not 140+ TW tires.

    Dave G.

    Rex247
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    24 Feb 2013 02:51 PM
    It looks like I got my answer for this thread. Thanks to all involved and good luck in your racing!
    GlennAustin
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    25 Feb 2013 10:21 PM
    245/40R18 front and 275/40R18 rear 140+ treadwear on the stock wheels. Unfortunately the Rivals (and Direzzas) don't currently come in that size, but the Bridgestone RE-11s do.

    Once you get to the point that you're consistent at the limit on street tires, then 295/30R18 Hoosier A6s all the way around -- yes, they will fit the V1 track model rims (which is what you want, Enkei RPF-1 is a good alternative).

    The Z is incredibly forgiving, even at the limit -- and is quick as well.
    Rex247
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    25 Feb 2013 11:34 PM

    About the tires, Yeah I'm bummed about the highly acclaimed Rivals. I am going with 245/40R18 in the front, but I was thinking 275 is too different, and that I should look for a tire that comes in 255 or 265 to reduce understeer, not sure about aspect ratio.

    GlennAustin
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    26 Feb 2013 01:34 AM
    Well, the 275s will be a bit more pinched on the rears than the 245s will be on the fronts, so the width differences won't be quite as bad. Mine is actually pretty well balanced on the 245/275 street tires. Not as balanced as it is on 295 Hoosiers all the way around, but still pretty good.

    245/40 and 275/40 is pretty close in diameter to the OEM 225/45 and 245/45 sizes, but using 225 fronts gave Nissan the needed "legal understeer" in the car to keep the idiots safe.
    Rex247
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    26 Feb 2013 08:47 PM

    RTR with a CS index sounds like a safe bet, but in case I still wanted to modify my car and race it, what is the minimum work I would need to do to be competitive? What about modifications for STR? Are these classes race tires only or does RTR apply here?

    GlennAustin
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    26 Feb 2013 11:14 PM
    Rex247 wrote:

    RTR with a CS index sounds like a safe bet, but in case I still wanted to modify my car and race it, what is the minimum work I would need to do to be competitive? What about modifications for STR? Are these classes race tires only or does RTR apply here?

    Well, STR has some significant limitations for the 350Z -- limitations especially on maximum tire widths that are significant enhancements to other cars.

    RTR is probably your best bet for now -- learn how to drive the car at the limit before doing a lot *TO* the car! The #1, best "bang-for-your-buck" modification you can do to a car is to work on the nut that holds the steering wheel (and pushes the pedals). The 350Z actually can be pretty competitive right out of the box, upgrade the front anti-roll bar and upgrade the shocks (Koni sports) and you'll have a good start. When you're ready, go with light wheels and sticky tires and you can be right there.

    Rex247
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    03 Mar 2013 02:45 PM
    Still here. I'm about to pull the trigger on Enkei RPF1 18x8 +35 and 18x8.5 +30 and 245/4018 on the fronts. Which rear tires should I go with? 275/40R18 or 265/40/R18? There are only 2 tires, Pirelli P Zero System and Bridgestone RE-11 for the 275 but the 265s have more choices. What about 275/35 with BF Goodrich Rivals or 265/35 with Direzza ZIIs? Thanks for all the help.
    GlennAustin
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    04 Mar 2013 10:14 PM
    Rex247 wrote:
    Still here. I'm about to pull the trigger on Enkei RPF1 18x8 +35 and 18x8.5 +30 and 245/4018 on the fronts. Which rear tires should I go with? 275/40R18 or 265/40/R18? There are only 2 tires, Pirelli P Zero System and Bridgestone RE-11 for the 275 but the 265s have more choices. What about 275/35 with BF Goodrich Rivals or 265/35 with Direzza ZIIs? Thanks for all the help.

    Remember that the rears must be the same or larger diameter than the fronts, so the 265/40s would be a good choice.

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