PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 30 Mar 2014 08:45 AM by  pknowles
SP Nats Attendance 2008-2012
 51 Replies
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 3 of 3 << < 123
Author Messages
Canyonfive
New Member
New Member
Posts:21


--
23 Mar 2013 01:59 AM
I'm certainly planning on running bsp. I enjoy the level of mods but also agree that mini clutches and other similar issues could be ironed out.

I would like to see a "sleeping policeman" one must pass over.

I drive my car everyday and if I could drive my mazdaspeed miata In a ST class I might but the level of sp is how I already have it modded.

Limits on the number of tires without incurring a penalty is very attractive to a more cash limited person like myself. I have no ideas on policing it but 2 sets a year plus 2 spares does not seem unreasonable.
Nate90LX
New Member
New Member
Posts:9


--
24 Mar 2013 11:01 AM
I've being competing locally in CSP for the past few years in an under-prepped Miata, and l plan to switch to STR or STS once I can find the time and all parts to swap. Here are my reasons why I'm eager to switch...

1. Tires; a set of 13" Hoosiers for my current 8" wide wheels are over $800, and they are the cheapest Hoosiers available. The 275's are over $1000. The 15x9 wheels and ST tires are around $1000 and last two relatively competitive seasons, maybe more with a single driver car.

2. Frankenstein cars created by update-backdate rules. I like the idea of switching some small parts, but the Miata has 15 years of parts to switch. That's lots of parts to switch find the best combination.

3. The Miata isn't my DD, but I still drive it to events and take it to work occasionally or drive it on weekends. It still has A/C, power steering, and power windows. In fact my wife still likes to ride in it. Once fully prepped for SP all that street-ability goes away. Converting to ST trim will make it even better as a street car, and I shouldn't need the tire trailer or have to switch tires (at least for the close events).

I've never competed at a Pro/Tour, and probably won't for a few more years due to life circumstances and priorities. So, I may not be who the SCCA trying to court with any future rule changes. Plus, I will probably keep autoxing in some class no matter what the rules are, because there is no other motorsport with minimal impact to my wallet and limited risk of vehicles or driver damage.
Major_Lee_Slow
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:185


--
25 Mar 2013 06:55 AM
I like SP just the way it is. Sure there is an opportunity to maybe refine the rules a bit, but I don't think it needs a complete re-write. Ban race rubber from SP? I'm out. Maybe that's just the kick in butt that I need to get moving on my dream of designing an AM. Besides, it is possible to get 1 local season out of 1 set of A6's. We budget for 60 runs on a set of A6's. My car is a two driver car and we utilize 3 sets of tires in a season. By planning out our tire usage at the beginning of the season we can run a couple of tours on sub 20 run tires, fresh tires for National's and 20+run tires for local events. One doesn't always have to have fresh tires for every event they attend.

I've seen ESP as a journey. I started autocrossing my 98 Camaro SS in ESP 1999 (before they were allowed to run FS). The first few years I just focused on driver development with very minimal modifications like headers, springs and torque arm. I didn't start getting serious about car development until 2009. I think the mistake alot of people make when entering SP is that they think that they have to go from stock to fully built to the limit of the rules in just one off season (I know we are all very impatient). Basically I put together a 5 year plan of driver and car development. I would budget around $2000 for off season development and make incremental improvements everyyear. I'm sure I've spent more than $10,000 on my build, but I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the engineering & development side. I swear, sometimes I have more fun in the garage then I do out on course.

Streatable? Sure I can drive it on the street, it's got tags and it passes emissions, and yes I still have CATS on the car, I guess that's the tree hugger in me. But no AC and very uncomfortable race seats (don't every by corbeu seats, they suck)

Will I ever be on the pointy end of the ESP spear? Probably not, but I am having alot of fun. Our 5 year plan is working, my co-driver and I are closing the gap to maderish each year, he's trophied twice in my car and I believe that if I can keep my head out of my ass this year I might have a shot to get a trophy this year.

Plus the way the rules are written, 10+ year old cars are still competitive in SP which allowed me to develop an execute a 5 year plan without fear of developing a car that would either be illegal or non-competitive at the end of my journey. One doesn't have to have the latest model year car to win in SP, right Mark ;-)

Shock Claiming Rule?  Absolutely Not!  I've spent way to much time an effort learning about shock tuning and development to just "give away" my work.  Besides anyone who has spent any time developing a shock curve knows that a shock that works for you and your set-up probably won't be right for me and my set-up.  Also, when looking at shocks, one has to look at total cost of ownership, not just initial purchase price.  The cost of re-valving and rebuilding a Penske is significantly more cost effective than a koni.  And lets face it, it is necessary to rebuild any brand of shock at least every one to two years depending on the number of runs.  And since we are autocrossing, optimal shock tuning is very unique vs. street driving or road racing not to mention we can select any spring rate, any wheel weight, any ride height, any sway bar, etc, that we want, not to mention we all have unique driving styles.  So there is no way an "off the shelf" shock is gonna have the right F-V curve for your car, the variables are too great.  Then when it's time to "move on" it's very possible that the penske can be sold for almost as much as it's initial purchase price. I wish I had know all of this before I purchased my koni's, I would have saved a ton of money over the last 5 years.  

Frank05v
New Member
New Member
Posts:87


--
01 Apr 2013 05:13 PM
Posted By BSPMSM on 23 Mar 2013 01:59 AM
I'm certainly planning on running bsp. I enjoy the level of mods but also agree that mini clutches and other similar issues could be ironed out.

I would like to see a "sleeping policeman" one must pass over.

I drive my car everyday and if I could drive my mazdaspeed miata In a ST class I might but the level of sp is how I already have it modded.

Limits on the number of tires without incurring a penalty is very attractive to a more cash limited person like myself. I have no ideas on policing it but 2 sets a year plus 2 spares does not seem unreasonable.

Are you running any national events?  It has been quite some time since I have seen any MSMs at national events other than the ones my co driver and I have entered.


ratt_finkel
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:1650


--
01 Aug 2013 09:57 AM
Here we are a month out and we have ten signed up in ASP. Ten. Only one is missing their co-driver. So make that 11. if I'm able to make that would be 12. Sad state of affairs.
Frank05v
New Member
New Member
Posts:87


--
01 Aug 2013 12:15 PM
Posted By ratt_finkel on 01 Aug 2013 09:57 AM
Here we are a month out and we have ten signed up in ASP. Ten. Only one is missing their co-driver. So make that 11. if I'm able to make that would be 12. Sad state of affairs.

And total numbers are only 2/3 of "normal".  This is just my opinion, but I think with the addition of the match tours, I think the idea of national events and exclusivity has been diluted.

hanhenze
New Member
New Member
Posts:73


--
01 Aug 2013 01:53 PM
Posted By ratt_finkel on 28 Feb 2013 06:24 PM

Not sure if anyone has looked at the writing on the wall recently. But last year SP reached a 5 year low in attendance. What is being done about bringing new blood into the class?



Doesn't it make sense to wait a couple of years to see how many Stock class drivers come into SP to satisfy their A6 habit? I know I'm thinking about it
hklvette
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:184


--
01 Aug 2013 04:34 PM
Posted By Han Solo on 01 Aug 2013 01:53 PM
Posted By ratt_finkel on 28 Feb 2013 06:24 PM

Not sure if anyone has looked at the writing on the wall recently. But last year SP reached a 5 year low in attendance. What is being done about bringing new blood into the class?



Doesn't it make sense to wait a couple of years to see how many Stock class drivers come into SP to satisfy their A6 habit? I know I'm thinking about it

This.  Not me personally, but the Stock shake-up may serve to even out the numbers between Stock, ST, and SP.

davebs14
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:2498


--
02 Aug 2013 02:48 PM
Posted By FrankL on 01 Aug 2013 12:15 PM
Posted By ratt_finkel on 01 Aug 2013 09:57 AM
Here we are a month out and we have ten signed up in ASP. Ten. Only one is missing their co-driver. So make that 11. if I'm able to make that would be 12. Sad state of affairs.

And total numbers are only 2/3 of "normal".  This is just my opinion, but I think with the addition of the match tours, I think the idea of national events and exclusivity has been diluted.


I'd agree with the above statement. That and the crazy high entry fees all year. And the crap tour trophies I still complain about

But yeah...costs are getting crazy. Every damn national event is over $100 now...I remember when nationals hit $100...then over $125 and now over $150...

Pretty soon we'll have road race costs and the numbers will further suffer. 

There are not even 900 registered for nationals now...

gary p
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts:2730


--
02 Aug 2013 02:59 PM
Unless the stock tire shake-up brings an influx of competitors, SP is in deep trouble. ST entries for Nationals are outpacing SP nearly 2:1. Even STF is outdrawing all SP classes save ESP. If the pony cars and Corvettes ever get a competitive ST class, will SP survive?

I think a long range plan to merge of SP and P, using dual prep allowances ("full" and "limited") would make the most sense.

psycko069
New Member
New Member
Posts:19


--
25 Aug 2013 11:53 AM

 

My answer: commencing the 3rd year out, merge ST into SP using the SP rules as is, except as follows:

1. Use street tires as ST currently defines them;  I'd shop the manufacturers with the widest size selections and try to make it a spec tire class with volume discounts.   (prevents testing $$ requirements);  either that or fund a club tire test every year with most of the major tires, tested on at least 3 representative platforms.  I'd also consider marking one set of tires for every national event and that is the only set you get to run at that event.  Maybe 5 tires total to account for flats or other problems.

2.  Claimer shocks - $1000 buys the winner's shocks at any national event.

3.   full diameter/disc clutche/fw  - you could even set a minimum weight

4.   ac removal requires  front ballast, say 30 lbs

5.   non emissions legal/inspection sticker adds  ballast, say  50 lbs

6.   I'd consider ballast or minimum weights for race seats too, perhaps the ST rule is the right way to go.

7.    any non stock aero gets significant penalties;  some ideas for penalties would include 1) requiring  10% of total vehicle weight  as ballast, 2) set criteria such that no significant downforce is produced, 3) significantly limit tire sizes for cars with non stock aero.  

8.    I'd consider allowing off the shelf aftermarket cams/heads/stroker components, at least for some classes where such mods are popular and readily available. 

Many cars now can overwork a set of street tires as is, even without those components, so allowing them may improve the class attractiveness to the track day/street race/car magazine crowd that feeds our sport, without really upsetting the apple cart.

9.    put a roller in grid every car has to get over in order to run, confirming a semi streetable minimum ride height.

10.   Screen the class placements to prevent the tiny/large car pairings or other obvious mismatches, and promote popular platforms (vettes/miata/muscle car/bmw/porsche etc.).



 

 

I can honestly say that any of these proposed changes, minus the clutch change would run me out of SP.... Just adding my two cents. I think those ideas are ridiculous. Running R-Comps is one of the main reasons that I stay in SP. Not having to worry about internal engine modifications, which keeps my wallet a little fatter is another reason that I stay in SP. A 50lb ballast penalty for not running a catalytic converter is ludicrous. A 30lb ballast penalty for removing the A/C would pretty much negate the weight savings gained by removing it to begin with. Claimer shocks would be pointless, as stated previously. Why would I want to know what the parameters of a CRX shock is? It will not help me. For that matter, why would I want to know what the parameters of Marshalls, or Jeremys shocks are? They don't drive my car, so it will not help. me. I am not a regular Tour or Nationals attendee because I am not at that level yet, but I am a regular at regional events for several years and considering changes of this magnitude would kill the class.. At least for me....

pknowles
Basic Member
Basic Member
Posts:203


--
30 Mar 2014 08:45 AM

Last time I was at Nationals was 2007, for some of us a crappy economy and increasing racing costs have squeezed the fun budget. 

 

As far as rules creep, I wish we could have SP from 15 years ago.  I defiantly don't drive my SP everyday, but I do enjoy driving it every once in a while.  Aero was a big turn off (and I wrote my letter).  My car already scrapes getting out of my driveway, so if I put a front splitter on my car, then I can't get out of my driveway.  Driving around the street with a rear spoiler sounds like a dumb idea as well.  I don't want a paper weight car (one that HAS to be towed everywhere and just sits between events).  While some of the top cars a not street driven at all, a lot are still driven and enjoyed.  The rules have just made it harder to do that and not give up alot.

 

Phil K.

#68 ESP

You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 3 of 3 << < 123


Sunoco 88x31 Button
Woodhouse Motorsports SPS 88x31 Button
G-Loc Button Vorshlag 88x31 Button

Advertise on SCCAForums.com and reach thousands of visitors per day!

SafeRacer FREE SHIPPING over $99

Shop for Pirelli tires at Tire Rack. blank



Sunoco Bottom 468x60 Banner