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Last Post 10 Jul 2014 02:41 PM by  hanhenze
What's THE car in A Street?
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hanhenze
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23 Apr 2013 10:56 AM
    Are the 2014 rule changes a good thing or bad thing for A Stock (Street)? How will the C5 do against the 1st gen Cayman S with both cars allowed camber plates and on street tires? Inquiring minds what to know...
    hklvette
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    23 Apr 2013 11:02 AM

    If the rules go through as they are in the current proposal, the C5 won't get more camber, and wouldn't get much more with a non-factory allowance.  All C5s and C6s are SLA setups.  The Cayman will probably come out on top (again, assuming that the camber allowance stays as it is) because it will be able to make more use of the tires underneath it.

    lowside67
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    23 Apr 2013 12:40 PM
    It's probably early to buy and sell cars though, it is likely that there will be a big shakeup of the classes as the macstrut cars are obviously going to become quite a bit quicker.
    cbramey
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    23 Apr 2013 02:39 PM
    Dont understand cambering one kind of car and not others.
    Dont understand classing radically differnent cars together.
    Agree that cayman and other lower torque smaller cars will come out huge winners unless reclassing happens.
    hanhenze
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    24 Apr 2013 05:00 PM
    All this makes it difficult for someone new entering the sport to make an educated decision on what car/class to begin with. I'm a committed Porsche enthusiast so there's no question for me (committed to the brand, not institutionalized, not yet). If there's class shuffling that might be a little hairy but at this point I'm looking at one more r-comp purchase. I figure at some point next season I'll have to make the switch to street tires. I'm already pricing camber plates with an suspension project in mind for next winter.
    Kgolf31
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    24 Apr 2013 06:24 PM
    I wish the 06-08 BMW Z4M Coupe could have a chance.

    Given that basically no one runs them, it is a shot in the dark.

    Regardless, I'll be running my 07
    newportroyal
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    24 Apr 2013 06:44 PM
    Posted By cbramey on 23 Apr 2013 02:39 PM
    Dont understand cambering one kind of car and not others.
    Dont understand classing radically differnent cars together.
    Agree that cayman and other lower torque smaller cars will come out huge winners unless reclassing happens.

     

    MacPherson struts lose camber as the suspension compresses, making cars with little to no static camber even worse when the car turns, rolls, compresses.

    Double wishbone suspensions increase camber as the suspension compresses, making cars with little to no static camber much better off when the car turns, rolls, compresses.

    That's my best guess as to the reasoning behind the division.

    sjfehr
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    24 Apr 2013 10:01 PM
    If Cayman S comes out on top, it'll get bumped and buried in SS.
    hanhenze
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    25 Apr 2013 10:09 AM
    Posted By sjfehr on 24 Apr 2013 10:01 PM
    If Cayman S comes out on top, it'll get bumped and buried in SS.
    That would be most unfortunate. But 2009 and later Cayman S and Cayman R are already classed in SS (and indeed buried). So at that point, the class structure for those cars begins to mimic Street Prepared (all Cayman S classed ASP). Those of us who know the make and models well, know the performance capabilities from 986 to 987. Speaking of, I'm looking forward to test driving the 2013 Cayman S. Although the dealer has said that manual transmission optioned units are scarce. PDK is standard now.
    P. Lier
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    25 Apr 2013 03:52 PM
    Posted By Kgolf31 on 24 Apr 2013 06:24 PM
    I wish the 06-08 BMW Z4M Coupe could have a chance.

    Given that basically no one runs them, it is a shot in the dark.

    Regardless, I'll be running my 07

    We won't know until we try will we.   2006 Z4M coupe coming your way in 2014 as long as the camber rule stays in place. 

     

    Peter


    m3kerry
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    26 Apr 2013 08:16 AM
    Han, I am moving to street tires in some way no matter what. I would love to have camber plates as a part of it too. If that means writing a letter to the seb to get my car added to STU where it will be an also ran, then fine. If stu can't happen then RTR. I just hate the tire bill and hauling tires in my car.

    I would go run nasa time trails to fix all of this but that brings up the wreck you still pay for it part that autox does not have. Autox is pretty car safe. The cones just don't have the impact of tire walls.
    edfishjr
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    05 May 2013 12:33 AM
    Posted By sjfehr on 24 Apr 2013 10:01 PM
    If Cayman S comes out on top, it'll get bumped and buried in SS.

    You know, I don't think that will happen. Given the latest news that the SEB really wants to eliminate some classes, I now see it differently. I think it more likely they will combine BS & AS. Whether or not more camber is allowed for McStrut cars, they may want to see if, on street tires, the Cayman S can create a new rivalry with the S2000CR and see how much the C5 falls behind. I can understand them dreaming of a 3-make rivalry- Honda, Porsche, Chevrolet. I don't think the C5 (what I drive, and I've raced it a lot on streets) can compete on streets with either the Cayman S or the S2000, CR or no CR, unless it is allowed C5Z06 wheel widths. I don't think they would do that, though, at least not until it was proven the C5 couldn't hack it.

    I think they will eliminate at least 2 classes and see what happens. Then start moving cars around. Eliminating classes now will given them room to add one or two back once they see the new pecking order.

    Here's another question: Do you think the later model non-GT3 Porsches, if they get more front camber, could become unburied in SS? (edit: I mean a street tire super stock where the C6's won't be able to use a lot of their torque advantage.)

    hanhenze
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    05 May 2013 08:22 AM
    Posted By edfishjr on 05 May 2013 12:33 AM
    Posted By sjfehr on 24 Apr 2013 10:01 PM
    If Cayman S comes out on top, it'll get bumped and buried in SS.

    You know, I don't think that will happen. Given the latest news that the SEB really wants to eliminate some classes, I now see it differently. I think it more likely they will combine BS & AS. Whether or not more camber is allowed for McStrut cars, they may want to see if, on street tires, the Cayman S can create a new rivalry with the S2000CR and see how much the C5 falls behind. I can understand them dreaming of a 3-make rivalry- Honda, Porsche, Chevrolet. I don't think the C5 (what I drive, and I've raced it a lot on streets) can compete on streets with either the Cayman S or the S2000, CR or no CR, unless it is allowed C5Z06 wheel widths. I don't think they would do that, though, at least not until it was proven the C5 couldn't hack it.

    I think they will eliminate at least 2 classes and see what happens. Then start moving cars around. Eliminating classes now will given them room to add one or two back once they see the new pecking order.

    Here's another question: Do you think the later model non-GT3 Porsches, if they get more front camber, could become unburied in SS? (edit: I mean a street tire super stock where the C6's won't be able to use a lot of their torque advantage.)

    Kerry - Copy that buddy. I recon I'll be joining the street tire crowd at a later date. However, I think I'll do a more comprehensive suspension upgrade (within the the new rule set of course) add the dual adjustable Konis on the rear and newly allowed camber plates on all corners. At that point I may even consider having the suspension professionally adjusted.

     

    Ed - You just don't see the 911s competing in the SE & NE Division Solo much (except for David's GT3 that is). I'm curious how a 997 911S or 911 4S would fair against the C5Z06 is SS (with max stock prep) on street tires. Although I've never driven one of those models, I've heard they're phenomenal handling cars. It's sad that those owner just don't know what a capable machine they have in their hands.

     

    All - I test drove a 2013 Cayman S WITHOUT PDK (97% of those Cayman S will have PDK is what I heard from the Porsche sales team). It has rev matching (which is VERY nice) when you're in Sports Plus mode. It was a really wet test drive on local streets but you could certainly feel the extra 30 HP over my 2007 (and 40 lbs. lighter). I'm not real excited about the changed body style however, Porsche went more angular and lost the sexy curves. But that demo unit with 1500 miles, full sports package, black on black was $73,000 (ouch!). I'd like to be seen in that car but not at the bottom of the SS field.  


    sjfehr
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    05 May 2013 05:22 PM
    2013 Boxster S w/PDK was fantastic on the road, but I unfortunately didn't have a chance to actually push it to see how it felt at the limit. Why aren't all Porsche dealers required to have at least skidpads behind the showroom for test drive purposes??
    edfishjr
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    05 May 2013 07:43 PM
    Posted By sjfehr on 05 May 2013 05:22 PM
    2013 Boxster S w/PDK was fantastic on the road, but I unfortunately didn't have a chance to actually push it to see how it felt at the limit. Why aren't all Porsche dealers required to have at least skidpads behind the showroom for test drive purposes??

    Maybe because they don't design their cars for auto-x, nor for the track, with one exception. Or, maybe they don't want you chunking the new tires?

    Actually, it's not quite as silly as it sounds given that Ferry P. (I think it was) is on record as saying something like "You can't understand what makes a Porsche a Porsche by driving it around the block", right?


    edfishjr
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    05 May 2013 07:47 PM
    Posted By Han Solo on 05 May 2013 08:22 AM
    Ed - You just don't see the 911s competing in the SE & NE Division Solo much (except for David's GT3 that is). I'm curious how a 997 911S or 911 4S would fair against the C5Z06 is SS (with max stock prep) on street tires. Although I've never driven one of those models, I've heard they're phenomenal handling cars. It's sad that those owner just don't know what a capable machine they have in their hands.

    Actually, I was really thinking more of the mid-engine cars with 300+ hp and (maybe now) enough camber for the front end to really bite at autocross speeds/conditions.



    Audii-Dudii
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    05 May 2013 08:04 PM
    Posted By sjfehr on 05 May 2013 05:22 PM
    Why aren't all Porsche dealers required to have at least skidpads behind the showroom for test drive purposes??

    Actually, some Porsche dealerships do have such things ... can't say I've ever used it, though: http://investors.penskeautomotive.c...highlight=

    As for the main topic at hand here, I'm optimistic personally about the Cayman's chances in AS on street tires next year and even (if?) mixed with BS the year after.  I will certainly be attending a few Nationals events and fingers crossed, the Nationals themselves, in order to find out.  

    hanhenze
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    06 May 2013 09:32 AM
    Posted By Audii-Dudii on 05 May 2013 08:04 PM
    As for the main topic at hand here, I'm optimistic personally about the Cayman's chances in AS on street tires next year and even (if?) mixed with BS the year after.  I will certainly be attending a few Nationals events and fingers crossed, the Nationals themselves, in order to find out.  

    Cayman S verses S2000 CR on streets would be interesting. There are so many really good S2000 drivers that I fear it's a tough road to travel. I'm just going to have to keep my seat time up and keep pushing these mid-engine cars as far as I dare.

    Audii-Dudii
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    06 May 2013 10:04 AM
    Posted By Han Solo on 06 May 2013 09:32 AM
    Posted By Audii-Dudii on 05 May 2013 08:04 PM
    As for the main topic at hand here, I'm optimistic personally about the Cayman's chances in AS on street tires next year and even (if?) mixed with BS the year after.  I will certainly be attending a few Nationals events and fingers crossed, the Nationals themselves, in order to find out.  

     

    Cayman S verses S2000 CR on streets would be interesting. There are so many really good S2000 drivers that I fear it's a tough road to travel. I'm just going to have to keep my seat time up and keep pushing these mid-engine cars as far as I dare.


    For next weekend's event, an S2000 driver and I have agreed to swap cars during the time-only fun runs at the end day.  It will be interesting to see how each of us fares in each other's car; if nothing else, it will give me some idea of the competition I may face someday...
    hanhenze
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    06 May 2013 10:11 AM
    Posted By Audii-Dudii on 06 May 2013 10:04 AM



    For next weekend's event, an S2000 driver and I have agreed to swap cars during the time-only fun runs at the end day.  It will be interesting to see how each of us fares in each other's car; if nothing else, it will give me some idea of the competition I may face someday...
    Outstanding! Please post your experience after the event.

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