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Last Post 10 Jul 2014 02:41 PM by  hanhenze
What's THE car in A Street?
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sjfehr
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26 Nov 2013 06:00 PM

Posted By talon95 on 26 Nov 2013 01:35 PM
You guys are pathetic. There's only ONE real Han Solo.


And he shot first, edits be damned!

John V
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29 Nov 2013 07:29 AM
He's right. You can make your display name anything you want.
TedDBere
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02 Jan 2014 10:58 AM
Posted By Cole on 29 Nov 2013 07:29 AM
He's right. You can make your display name anything you want.

That's too funny....

 


cay187
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30 Jan 2014 05:13 PM
I would not recommend the Cayman S (06-08). They should have move the entire A-stock class to B-street, instead they moved everyone except the already slower Cayman (A-stock car). I've been the most consistent in developing and running this car at nationals/tours. It has a 'maybe' chance in B-street and has a 'you-need-to-be-very-lucky, pray-for-a-mid-rain' chance in the new A-street class. It makes more sense to keep the former A-Stock class together. The Cayman participation was already very low and diminishing,...so now place it against former SS cars? How does this decision grow the class and what is the fear with this car? Isn't it the ultimate goal to increase entry rates...

The goal would be increase participation rates and yield more 'consistent' data to help class adjustments but I don't see this happening in the current street class proposal. It might be a onesey and twosies new-to-SCCA folks trying Cayman/Boxster and quickly realizing it's a mistake to continue development thus data will never be good enough.

Yes I've already written to SEB - They would like to see data. I'm just not sure how they are going to get it.

Frankly there is already enough historical 'stock' data to point to B-street classing and not A-street.

sjfehr
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30 Jan 2014 08:28 PM
Posted By cay187 on 30 Jan 2014 05:13 PM
I would not recommend the Cayman 06-08. They should have move the entire A-stock class to B-street, instead they moved everyone except the already slower Cayman (A-stock car). I've been the most consistent in developing and running this car at nationals/tours. It has a 'maybe' chance in B-street and has a 'you-need-to-be-very-lucky, pray-for-a-mid-rain' chance in the new A-street class. It makes more sense to keep the former A-Stock class together. The Cayman participation was already very low and diminishing,...so now place it against former SS cars? How does this decision grow the class and what is the fear with this car? Isn't it the ultimate goal to increase entry rates...

The goal would be increase participation rates and yield more 'consistent' data to help class adjustments but I don't see this happening in the current street class proposal. It might be a onesey and twosies new-to-SCCA folks trying Cayman/Boxster and quickly realizing it's a mistake to continue development thus data will never be good enough.

Yes I've already written to SEB - They would like to see data. I'm just not sure how they are going to get it.
Not sure I understand;  Cayman (non-S) 05-08 is already in B-Street.  Are you concerned about the C5?
hanhenze
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31 Jan 2014 08:36 AM
Posted By sjfehr on 30 Jan 2014 08:28 PM
Posted By cay187 on 30 Jan 2014 05:13 PM
I would not recommend the Cayman 06-08. They should have move the entire A-stock class to B-street, instead they moved everyone except the already slower Cayman (A-stock car). I've been the most consistent in developing and running this car at nationals/tours. It has a 'maybe' chance in B-street and has a 'you-need-to-be-very-lucky, pray-for-a-mid-rain' chance in the new A-street class. It makes more sense to keep the former A-Stock class together. The Cayman participation was already very low and diminishing,...so now place it against former SS cars? How does this decision grow the class and what is the fear with this car? Isn't it the ultimate goal to increase entry rates...

The goal would be increase participation rates and yield more 'consistent' data to help class adjustments but I don't see this happening in the current street class proposal. It might be a onesey and twosies new-to-SCCA folks trying Cayman/Boxster and quickly realizing it's a mistake to continue development thus data will never be good enough.

Yes I've already written to SEB - They would like to see data. I'm just not sure how they are going to get it.
Not sure I understand;  Cayman (non-S) 05-08 is already in B-Street.  Are you concerned about the C5?
I'm sure Cay187 is referring to Cayman S. I agree with his statements except I believe the larger threat is moving S2000 CR into A Street. I've read some comments regarding the wheel size advantage of Porsche over Honda so I'm getting the largest RS-3s I can stuff onto my 18" wheels

sjfehr
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31 Jan 2014 08:48 AM

I'm not so concerned about the 987.1S being competitive in AS as I am 987.2 (non-S). I don't think the 987.2 will be competitive against the 987.1S. Better chance than the 987.2S has in SS, though.


We'll soon see, I guess. If any show up, that is. Of course, while there's a chance 987.2 PDK+LSD could make up for the 50hp difference to the 987.1S on some courses, it's almost moot, as 987.2 with PDK+LSD+PASM+SC are about as common as unicorns.

CSP21
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31 Jan 2014 09:26 AM
Posted By The Real Han Solo on 31 Jan 2014 08:36 AM
Posted By sjfehr on 30 Jan 2014 08:28 PM
Posted By cay187 on 30 Jan 2014 05:13 PM
I would not recommend the Cayman 06-08. They should have move the entire A-stock class to B-street, instead they moved everyone except the already slower Cayman (A-stock car). I've been the most consistent in developing and running this car at nationals/tours. It has a 'maybe' chance in B-street and has a 'you-need-to-be-very-lucky, pray-for-a-mid-rain' chance in the new A-street class. It makes more sense to keep the former A-Stock class together. The Cayman participation was already very low and diminishing,...so now place it against former SS cars? How does this decision grow the class and what is the fear with this car? Isn't it the ultimate goal to increase entry rates...

The goal would be increase participation rates and yield more 'consistent' data to help class adjustments but I don't see this happening in the current street class proposal. It might be a onesey and twosies new-to-SCCA folks trying Cayman/Boxster and quickly realizing it's a mistake to continue development thus data will never be good enough.

Yes I've already written to SEB - They would like to see data. I'm just not sure how they are going to get it.
Not sure I understand;  Cayman (non-S) 05-08 is already in B-Street.  Are you concerned about the C5?
I'm sure Cay187 is referring to Cayman S. I agree with his statements except I believe the larger threat is moving S2000 CR into A Street. I've read some comments regarding the wheel size advantage of Porsche over Honda so I'm getting the largest RS-3s I can stuff onto my 18" wheels

RS3 hate pinching, this is not a good idea.


Old Rallyist
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02 Feb 2014 12:17 AM
Shouldn't need to pinch the RS3 all that much on a 987.2 Boxster/Cayman in that there are stand alone optional 8.5x19 front and 10x19 wheels.  Now using the + or - 1" rule there is a possibility of having 8.5x18 and 10x18 wheels with 35 versus 40 aspect ratio tires to provide more acceleration.  Will it allow the Porsche be competitive against a C6 Z06 Corvette in A Street?  I doubt it but it might make things a bit more interesting.  There are even wheels available with the correct offset.
hanhenze
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02 Feb 2014 09:42 AM
Posted By Old Rallyist on 02 Feb 2014 12:17 AM
Shouldn't need to pinch the RS3 all that much on a 987.2 Boxster/Cayman in that there are stand alone optional 8.5x19 front and 10x19 wheels.  Now using the + or - 1" rule there is a possibility of having 8.5x18 and 10x18 wheels with 35 versus 40 aspect ratio tires to provide more acceleration.  Will it allow the Porsche be competitive against a C6 Z06 Corvette in A Street?  I doubt it but it might make things a bit more interesting.  There are even wheels available with the correct offset.

True for 1st gen Cayman S? If so, that's news to me...

From Cayman Manual:

Cayman S: Front 235/40 18 -- 8x18" wheel -- 57 mm offset -- 58.5"/1486 mm track

Rear 265/40 18 -- 9x18" wheel -- 43 mm offset -- 60.2"/1528mm track

Of course the 19" wheel was optional for the Cayman S but we've found the mass  and weight not helpful. The 18" wheels seem to work best. I went with the 285 x 35 rear and 245 x 40 front RS-3.

 photo 20140201_135426_zpsyhuwbx0a.jpg

No pinching and I know I'll have clearance on the struts with a 1/4" spacer.

You can put a 305x18 rear and 285x18 front Hoosier on this car with no rubbing but it appears the RS-3 has squarer shoulders.



CSP21
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02 Feb 2014 09:43 AM
That is pinched for an RS3
Audii-Dudii
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02 Feb 2014 10:39 AM
Posted By The Real Han Solo on 02 Feb 2014 09:42 AM
Posted By Old Rallyist on 02 Feb 2014 12:17 AM
Shouldn't need to pinch the RS3 all that much on a 987.2 Boxster/Cayman in that there are stand alone optional 8.5x19 front and 10x19 wheels.  Now using the + or - 1" rule there is a possibility of having 8.5x18 and 10x18 wheels with 35 versus 40 aspect ratio tires to provide more acceleration.  Will it allow the Porsche be competitive against a C6 Z06 Corvette in A Street?  I doubt it but it might make things a bit more interesting.  There are even wheels available with the correct offset.

True for 1st gen Cayman S? If so, that's news to me...

From Cayman Manual:

Cayman S: Front 235/40 18 -- 8x18" wheel -- 57 mm offset -- 58.5"/1486 mm track

Rear 265/40 18 -- 9x18" wheel -- 43 mm offset -- 60.2"/1528mm track

Of course the 19" wheel was optional for the Cayman S but we've found the mass  and weight not helpful. The 18" wheels seem to work best. I went with the 285 x 35 rear and 245 x 40 front RS-3.

 photo 20140201_135426_zpsyhuwbx0a.jpg

No pinching and I know I'll have clearance on the struts with a 1/4" spacer.

You can put a 305x18 rear and 285x18 front Hoosier on this car with no rubbing but it appears the RS-3 has squarer shoulders.



Yes, it's also true for the 2006 Cayman S.  Although Option Code XRR (19x8.5 ET55 / 19x10 ET42 wheels) wasn't available at the car's launch, it did become available later in the model year, as the following Porsche press release confirms ... see the top of p. 5, where it describes the sizes of the wheels.

As it happens, I ran both 18x8.5 / 18x10 and 19x8.5 / 19x10 wheels back-to-back several times last year on my 2006 S (255/35-18 / 275/35-18 ZIIs on the 18s and 255/30-19 / 275/30-19 AD08s on the 19s) and it's been my experience that the 19s are consistently a few tenths quicker.  I suspect the reason for this is that the 30-series sidewalls favor my pitch-and-catch driving style better the 35-series sidewalls, but I wasn't able to do enough testing to sort this out before I blew the engine last November.  (Of course, with the AD08R replacement for the AD08 being a TW180 tire, this is only true for 2014, as the 255/30-19 and 275/30-19 sizes aren't available in any other potentially competitive tire.)

As for the 19s being heavier than the 18s, this will depend upon which wheels and tires you use.  My 19s are Champion RG5s and the set of four (with tires) weighs over 15 lbs less than the 18s, which are OZ Alleggeritas, one of the lighter 18s available with the correct size and legal offset.  Shortly before I killed the engine, I bought a used set of 18" Champion RG5s to run in 2014 and the set of bare wheels (I never got around to mounting tires on them) weighs roughly the same as the 19s (the fronts are actually a bit lighter, but for reasons I don't understand, the rears a bit heavier, so it evens out.)  So unless one has the means to order 5 pairs of custom-spec'd TSW T66-F rear wheels (or is willing to run spacers to reduce the offset of the 18x10 wheel they sell off the shelf), it appears that the 19" RG5s will be the lightest wheel/tire combo that are reasonably available in either diameter.

Lastly, it's my opinion that the Caymans aren't going to fare very well in the new A-Street against the Corvette and S2000s, at least on slower, tighter courses.  IMO, their too-tall second gear (74 mph!) puts the engine out of its powerband at corner exit on too many courses and the non-defeatable PSM / ABS doesn't play happy with tire-diameter staggers that vary much from OEM...


cay187
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10 Feb 2014 12:11 AM

Yes, I mean the Cayman S (06-08) in the my previous post.

- The largest 18" Hoosier A6 tire for 8" and 9" that I ran were 285 front and 315 rear.  I was the first to do a 315 rear.   A funny back story at a National tour, I shaved off my tire sizes and my competitors were having a field day trying to guess, ha!

- The other issue with the 06-08 CS is the lack of a limited-slip diff.  Yeah a front sway will help.. up to a certain point.

It seems to me the all boxster/cayman classing needs a reset. Currently they're just classed 'safely' out of the way which is ashame because they're fun cars and used prices are getting better.

hanhenze
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10 Feb 2014 08:50 AM
Posted By cay187 on 10 Feb 2014 12:11 AM

It seems to me the all boxster/cayman classing needs a reset. Currently they're just classed 'safely' out of the way which is ashame because they're fun cars and used prices are getting better.

I'm in total agreement on that point!

ninelvnfevr
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10 Jul 2014 10:54 AM

It's been awhile since this thread started so I wanted to add another car to the list of AS & ASR cars for the 2015 session. Some of you know several cars have been proposed for reclassification to the SEB and they are waiting until after the Nationals to decide.

I have proposed that the Porsche Carrera 997.1 (05-08, non GT3) in both configurations be considered for placement into AS/ASR from SS/SSR where the Porsche GT3 (04-08) will be dominant (all things equal) over the Carrera's. Just pitting the 997.1 Carrera's against it's own in house GT3's should be enough to consider removing them from SS/SSR without even considering the C6 or Viper (currently in AS), IMO.

 

texlbs
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10 Jul 2014 01:50 PM
When you say Carrera do you mean only the base Carrera or also the S? I tend to agree with your logic the 911 models should be broken up more than they are.
ninelvnfevr
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10 Jul 2014 02:15 PM

Yes, I am talking about both the 997.1 base, 997.1 S, and GTS, but not the 4S. I believe that most of the Porsche's need a re-set in 2015 even though there are many options for the 997.1.

I also don't think the Cayman/Boxters (09-14) in any configuration can challenge in SS/SSR, but that another argument, LOL.

hanhenze
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10 Jul 2014 02:41 PM
Posted By Chuck on 10 Jul 2014 02:15 PM

I also don't think the Cayman/Boxters (09-14) in any configuration can challenge in SS/SSR, but that another argument, LOL.


Cayman S & Boxster S can barely challenge in AS.

We recently did a very interesting comparison between my Cayman S and an S2000 CR on the Spring nationals test n tune course. An accomplished driver making successive runs in both cars with Max Q data. Basically it came down to the softer springs of the Cayman S giving way to the tighter sprung CR. Randall felt the CR was more predictable in turns which surprised this mid-engine supporter. However, when driving in the wet next day during the tour, he was doing better times than the two other competitors in the CR (and better than me in my own car for that matter). That could be attributed to tires though.

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